Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[toast 17,461]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Forever.  Contrary to what it feels like, due to the fact that we are exposed to every piece of news instantly, according to FBI statistics mass shootings are are on a downward trend in the USA as are every other crime except property crime which is theft from homes and autos.

If my informations are correct, this was the nineteenth incident involving guns/shootings in schools in the USA in 2018. If its claimed, by whoever, that there is a downward trend, statistically when will a zero school shooting value be reached and how much killed kids/pupils have to be expected by this same statistics in that period of time? Do you see the insanity of such "math"?

[toast 17,461]

6 minutes ago, pallidin said:

This really isn't about guns or access to them.

Its about the mental state of the person with the gun.

As long as persons with a rotten mental state have access to guns, its about guns.

[pallidin 11,098]

And adults should keep guns locked away from minors... that's Life 101.

[aztek 24,932]

it would be so much better if kids were thought hand to hand combat, and if smacking a bully back was allowed, and encouraged. kids are between anvil and a hammer now,  on one hand it is bullies pick on you, on the other school admin., punishes you if you do fight back,  than after you bullied in front everyone, and especially after the fight was recorded and put on FB, kid is on the verge of mental brake down, than the kid is embarrassed to approach a girl he likes, cuz he got beat up in front of her, so to them it is a big deal, basically no reason to live, so they take guns, and shoot everyone involved, and them,  there is so much going on in kids minds now, we adults have no idea, 

Adults who went undercover at a high school found 7 things people don't realize about life for teenagers today

 

[Likely Guy 24,134]

Apparently the alleged shooter was a former student, so bullying probably wasn't the cause.

[OverSword 58,285]

8 minutes ago, toast said:

If my informations are correct, this was the nineteenth incident involving guns/shootings in schools in the USA in 2018. If its claimed, by whoever, that there is a downward trend, statistically when will a zero school shooting value be reached and how much killed kids/pupils have to be expected by this same statistics in that period of time? Do you see the insanity of such "math"?

Your information may be correct, but the category this falls under (right or wrong) is not school shooting, it's mass shooting.  I do see the insanity of such math, although probably in the opposite direction that you see it in.  When I was in high school most of us 17 to 18 years old drove our own cars to school.  It would have been a very simple thing for someone with a car, either in the morning, during lunch, or after the last bell to have climbed into a car and driven through 20 people before anyone even knew what was happening.  If such an occurrence happens should the rest of us have to give up our cars?  As a matter of fact when I was a kid there were certain groups of students that would go  deer hunting after school and kept their hunting equipment including guns in their car.  Guess what?  Nobody ever shot up the school.  So what's the main difference between then and now?  I think it's prescription drugs.  Should we address the root cause or have a knee jerk reflex reaction based more on emotion than fact?  The USA is never going to give up the right to keep and bear arms so why bother even arguing about it?  And the way things are I'm pretty sure that one day keeping the second amendment will be vindicated.

[aztek 24,932]

Just now, toast said:

If my informations are correct, this was the nineteenth incident involving guns/shootings in schools in the USA in 2018. If its claimed, by whoever, that there is a downward trend, statistically when will a zero school shooting value be reached and how much killed kids/pupils have to be expected by this same statistics in that period of time? Do you see the insanity of such "math"?

over 1,5 millions of people use guns for self defense every year, so use your math and tell them how bad guns are.

[Timothy 6,490]

52 minutes ago, aztek said:

because you need to go after the reason not means,  and what exactly do you propose? nationwide confiscation from law abiding citizens, cuz you sure as hell wont get guns off gangs and criminals,. 

even Clinton antigun campaign found that guns used in self de3fence about 1.5 million times a year, and that is the lowest estimate by antigun group. so guns save 1.5 mil people a year from being assaulted, raped, killed, robed....etc, keep in mind in vast majority of cases guns are not even discharged. 

I agree with your sentiment. But you’re giving a lot of reasons, and yes there are plenty of means. 

Reason + means = the problem at hand. So take away the means as well as work on the reason. 

And yes it would be hard. And yes it would probably take a decade to make any progress. But ultimately it would be for the best. 

[toast 17,461]

5 minutes ago, aztek said:

over 1,5 millions of people use guns for self defense every year, so use your math and tell them how bad guns are.

Am I right assuming that these 1.5M use their guns for self defense because they get endangered by other people having guns?

[Timothy 6,490]

8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Your information may be correct, but the category this falls under (right or wrong) is not school shooting, it's mass shooting.  I do see the insanity of such math, although probably in the opposite direction that you see it in.  When I was in high school most of us 17 to 18 years old drove our own cars to school.  It would have been a very simple thing for someone with a car, either in the morning, during lunch, or after the last bell to have climbed into a car and driven through 20 people before anyone even knew what was happening.  If such an occurrence happens should the rest of us have to give up our cars?  As a matter of fact when I was a kid there were certain groups of students that would go  deer hunting after school and kept their hunting equipment including guns in their car.  Guess what?  Nobody ever shot up the school.  So what's the main difference between then and now?  I think it's prescription drugs.  Should we address the root cause or have a knee jerk reflex reaction based more on emotion than fact?  The USA is never going to give up the right to keep and bear arms so why bother even arguing about it?  And the way things are I'm pretty sure that one day keeping the second amendment will be vindicated.

It must be a pretty slow knee jerk reflex. Oh yeah, because it wouldn’t be. Because there is a huge problem and it should be addressed. 

From the root as a well as from the top, where any disgruntled person can easily get there hands on a gun and commit mass murder. 

Australias mass shooting had a knee jerk reflex, and I’m pretty glad to be living in a place where guns are not front of mind. 

[Likely Guy 24,134]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

 

Notice how many media is putting it as Nicolas Cruz instead of giving full name which would indicate he isn't white. Why do I have a feeling they are going to blame whites and call us demons again?

Really?...

[OverSword 58,285]

3 minutes ago, toast said:

Am I right assuming that these 1.5M use their guns for self defense because they get endangered by other people having guns?

irrelevant.

[toast 17,461]

11 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It would have been a very simple thing for someone with a car, either in the morning, during lunch, or after the last bell to have climbed into a car and driven through 20 people before anyone even knew what was happening.  If such an occurrence happens should the rest of us have to give up our cars? 

I know this comparison very well but sorry, its one of the most stupid comparisons on this planet and it smells like it was created by the NRA PR department.

[toast 17,461]

Just now, OverSword said:

irrelevant.

No, its the root cause principle, which cannot be irrelevant.

[OverSword 58,285]

2 minutes ago, toast said:

I know this comparison very well but sorry, its one of the most stupid comparisons on this planet and it smells like it was created by the NRA PR department.

No it wasn't actually.  While in high school I participated in a gun control debate in my debate class.  To the best of my knowledge I originated that argument .  That's how common sense it is, a know nothing kid can see the obviousness and truth of the statement.  I was not shocked in the least when people started using this very method of attack in France Germany and England, the only surprising part was that it took them so long to figure it out.

[pallidin 11,098]

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/14/parkland-high-school-shooting-at-least-14-victims-some-dead-suspect-in-custody-florida-sheriff-says.html

A shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida, involved "at least 14 victims" and many were feared dead, officials said Wednesday, adding that the suspect -- believed to be a former student -- was in custody.

------------------

Hope this is not the case (fatality count)...

Edited February 14, 2018 by pallidin

[Will Do 6,786]

 

Why are these kids going so crazy?

 

 

[OverSword 58,285]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Why are these kids going so crazy?

 

 

The obvious difference between before/after common place school shootings is the amount of pharmaceuticals being prescribed to young people, or people in general.  Pharmaceuticals where the warning label clearly cites things like suicidal thoughts, depression and other negative mental states as a potential side effect.

[Agent0range 6,276]

49 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Bring back early-age spanking when appropriate, I say.

So...it's not the fact that these weapons are legal, it's the fact that spanking is illegal.  And violence to punish a child will stop child on child violence...gotcha.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Agent0range

[OverSword 58,285]

10 minutes ago, toast said:

No, its the root cause principle, which cannot be irrelevant.

If you buy that the root cause is guns, which it is not, it's mental state which is the root cause.

[.ZZ. 28,575]

Sheriff: 17 dead.

[Likely Guy 24,134]

2 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Sheriff: 17 dead.

Since I can't 'like' your post, thanks for the update.

[OverSword 58,285]

6 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Sheriff: 17 dead.

 

3 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Since I can't 'like' your post, thanks for the update.

Same.  God save them.

[pallidin 11,098]

Dang, 17, eh?

How figgin horrible.

[thedutchiedutch 2,282]

44 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The obvious difference between before/after common place school shootings is the amount of pharmaceuticals being prescribed to young people, or people in general.  Pharmaceuticals where the warning label clearly cites things like suicidal thoughts, depression and other negative mental states as a potential side effect.

So could the real evil and cause of these unfortunate tragedies in the US be a combination of the unbelievable power of pharmaceutical companies and the NRA ?