Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[+Not A Rockstar]

LMAO. You needed me to say it is politics being tossed around in this thread and actually nothing about the victims? 

Sorry I see those children as martyrs to beliefs and passions as strong as any other faith. Sorry I think the guns are the least of the problem and people who come to a thread about dead kids to shout and attack and bicker over things which have nothing to do with the actual topic is a waste of time. I will leave you guys to it. My mistake for being drawn in by Susie's effort and thinking there maybe was a useful point to it for me. 

 

Carry on

[papageorge1]

I seem to be noticing a drop-off in the intensity of the coverage surprisingly fast compared to other mass shootings. Maybe it will pick up again but it's like it can't crowd out some spat between pro basketball players on my front page.

I just checked: The basketball spat is  now trending higher.

Edited February 15, 2018 by papageorge1

[seeder]

3 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

 

Sorry I see those children as martyrs to beliefs and passions as strong as any other faith.

 

what beliefs and passions were the kids martyrs for? Come on...tell US ALL?  

[+Not A Rockstar]

Yeah Papa I have noted the chilling of political attacks in the media right now as they work on the new Dreamers stuff, so we get to see the media anesthesia and distraction at least until that stuff gets signed.... oops, back to hiding again. I am out of here. Have a good day all :).

[RavenHawk]

27 minutes ago, seeder said:

so are many other nations....with vastly longer histories than the US has....yet OUR rights are SO protected we dont NEED guns.....think about it

Or did you think the US is the only country to protect its citizens?

That is incorrect.  Other nations do not protect the rights of their citizens.  They either grant them or restrict them (check out the quote by Madison).  Our government is the only one that guarantees them.  By having guns ensures and encourages that government to protect them.  Think about it!

[Likely Guy]

Just now, seeder said:

 

what beliefs and passions were the kids martyrs for? Come on...tell US ALL?  

I believe that he's saying a misguided faith.

[Likely Guy]

Well, this thread went sideways.

[seeder]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

That is incorrect.

 

NOPE....its 100% correct. Not all nations, granted, but many....

Dont forget the English once had full control over America....think of why the US celebrates Independence...

so if us English can live without guns....etc etc etc

[RavenHawk]

43 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

That's where you lost me... "martyrs of freedom" is another way of saying "dead children".

That explains why you are lost.  I suspect that this concept is over your head.  You see, you read that and the first thing that came to mind was "dead children".

[Likely Guy]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

That explains why you are lost.  I suspect that this concept is over your head.  You see, you read that and the first thing that came to mind was "dead children".

No, I read the rest that you said and it still didn't make any sense.

I gave it time and it still didn't help.

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, seeder said:

NOPE....its 100% correct. Not all nations, granted, but many....

No, not one.  Except for the US.  Some come close.

Dont forget the English once had full control over America....think of why the US celebrates Independence...

It's because England granted rights.  Despite revolutionary documents like the Magna Carta and the English Bill of Rights, the Crown still had final say.  English law had not yet realized full freedom found in the writings of William Blackstone and John Locke.

so if us English can live without guns....etc etc etc

That is why they are still at the mercy of the benevolence of English government.
 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

We don't live in the perfect world of 'Minority Report'

I "liked" the rest of that post but THIS would seem more like a nightmare than perfection.  Thoughtcrime... Let your mind wander over the divisions and outright hatred that is dividing Americans today, then think of what damage could be done by those in power.  If warning signs are obvious or even scant but reported then there should be an anonymous mechanism in place for an investigation of the basic facts but we can't just haul people in and hold them when they haven't actually threatened or attempted to harm anyone.

[seeder]

2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

No, not one.  Except for the US.  Some come close.

 

 

well thats news to me....my rights are fully protected as an Englishman....so how do you arrive at...."not one"

 

[RavenHawk]

30 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

No, I read the rest that you said and it still didn't make any sense.

I gave it time and it still didn't help.

And it never will.  If I knew a way to say it any simpler, I would

[Likely Guy]

1 minute ago, and then said:

I "liked" the rest of that post but THIS would seem more like a nightmare than perfection.  Thoughtcrime... Let your mind wander over the divisions and outright hatred that is dividing Americans today, then think of what damage could be done by those in power.  If warning signs are obvious or even scant but reported then there should be an anonymous mechanism in place for an investigation of the basic facts but we can't just haul people in and hold them when they haven't actually threatened or attempted to harm anyone.

Exactly, it was posed as a 'perfect' system that didn't pan out. I'm glad that someone caught that.

BTW, what in the hell are you doing up at this time in the morning (for you)?

[Likely Guy]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

And it never will.  If I knew a way to say it any simpler, I would

You can explain it as simply as you'd like, though I'd prefer more logic.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, seeder said:

well thats news to me....my rights are fully protected as an Englishman....so how do you arrive at...."not one"

If you tried to actually read what I said, then you'd understand "not one".  Did you look for the quote from Madison I had referenced?  Google "Madison Charters of Freedom".  It's a very simple quote to understand.  And it holds a wealth of truth.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

You can explain it as simply as you'd like, though I'd prefer more logic.

It was very simple logic.  Perhaps it was too logical and not a concrete concept??

[+and-then]

11 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Exactly, it was posed as a 'perfect' system that didn't pan out. I'm glad that someone caught that.

BTW, what in the hell are you doing up at this time in the morning (for you)?

Can't sleep and this beats counting camels...

[Likely Guy]

4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

If you tried to actually read what I said, then you'd understand "not one".  Did you look for the quote from Madison I had referenced?  Google "Madison Charters of Freedom".  It's a very simple quote to understand.  And it holds a wealth of truth.

It would help to be not so esoteric.

Say what you want to say.

[Likely Guy]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

It was very simple logic.  Perhaps it was too logical and not a concrete concept??

Again, 'esoteric'.

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Because there is no single solution, just too many facets to a problem that the 'powers that be' are unwilling or unable to face.

I really don't think facets are the problem. 

[freetoroam]

Quote

it seems, that his social media content raised eyebrows

One ex-classmate, Matthew Walker, said: "Everything he posts is about weapons. It's sick." 

One picture shows a box of ammunition and another shows numerous rifles spread on a bed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43063949

How did it manage to get from this ^ to this 

Quote

A gunman had entered the building and by the time he was apprehended at least 17 people had been fatally wounded. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43063949

 

I am not blaming social media...as such....i am blaming the fact that people are taking keyboard warriors with a pinch of salt....we are finding more and that these youngsters  are taking their fantasy ideas into reality. This is certainly not the first time this has happened.

Fantasy ideas have been behind violent killings throughour history , BUT  here you have it practically advertised, why did no one report this or pick up on it ....jeeze...he was into his weapons and made no secret about it. .it is not as if he had it in scrap books or on his bedroom walls or in some cellar....the signs were there, all over social media.

Could checks have not been made as to what he had in his possession in terms of weapons? 

Quote

One student told a local TV station that "everyone predicted" the shooting and had joked that Cruz would be "the one to shoot up the school"

Jeeze....joked? Even though he DID threaten  and was expelled from school for setting off  fire alarns.

Quote

"There were problems with him last year threatening students, 

 

 

Quote

Student Matthew Walker told ABC News that Mr Cruz was known for posting pictures of weapons on social media.

How many more warnings were needed?

[Likely Guy]

48 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I really don't think facets are the problem. 

Guns, drugs (and prescription drugs), bullying (in person or online), video games, movies... are all facets.

Edit: Oops, I forgot religion which is one of your favourites.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Likely Guy

[Setton]

10 hours ago, seeder said:

 

Possible I agree.... dont the schools in the US have at least ONE talk a year on how to deal with bullying?  Heck my school did, and that was over 30 years ago.

The first lesson was...TELL a teacher whats going on....dont hide it inside....

then of course a bully was hauled in front of the headmaster....(a figure most kids fear in UK schools)  and a letter sent to the bullies parents about his behaviour...

I still remember being bullied at school and the teacher who told me that on no account should I hit them back. That would be very, very wrong. Hint, hint. And the very sarcastic telling off he had to give me when I did. 

And I remember the sense of satisfaction when I gave the same speech to one of my students 20 years later. 

9 hours ago, OverSword said:

Your information may be correct, but the category this falls under (right or wrong) is not school shooting, it's mass shooting.  I do see the insanity of such math, although probably in the opposite direction that you see it in.  When I was in high school most of us 17 to 18 years old drove our own cars to school.  It would have been a very simple thing for someone with a car, either in the morning, during lunch, or after the last bell to have climbed into a car and driven through 20 people before anyone even knew what was happening.  If such an occurrence happens should the rest of us have to give up our cars?

I think the main difference is that a car's primary function is not to kill. A gun's is. 

6 hours ago, and then said:

psyche 101, I've chewed over a few topics with you in the past 5 years and I've always respected your opinions.  On a few, we disagree completely but the respect is there, regardless.  I actually agree with the bolded above.  I also can understand the frustration of people outside this country when they see such wanton slaughter.  It IS obvious that these shootings are going to continue.  It's heartbreaking every time it occurs but this country has a couple of hundred MILLION guns in circulation.  There will never be a law that will magically cause them to disappear and I doubt there will ever be an elected government here that would attempt confiscation.  It would just be too bloody to be worthwhile.  You are entitled to your opinion of Americans, even to generalize about those whose motives you don't really understand but continually beating the same drum on this topic does nothing except "virtue signaling".  This country was founded by men who wanted to be free of an oppressive government and were willing to kill AND DIE so that they could be free.  It's in our national DNA to distrust government and to make every attempt to keep it as small and weak as possible.  As a last resort, we know that ultimately, we have a way to plead our case at full volume.  If the price for that is that we periodically have these spasms of violence then so be it.  As these events continue, I expect that our representatives will finally work toward PRACTICAL solutions that do more than attempt to pass ever more draconian gun laws and finally spend some resources on hardening and guarding schools from the crazies that do these things.

After the number of these threads I get that the right wing American mind is fundamentally different to the rest of the world but this genuinely reads as if you're saying murdered children is an acceptable price for your (collective) paranoia.