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Russians indicted for campaign interference


OverSword

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Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

What, the "Democratic" Party, because of their inability to admit defeat gracefully, concocted a completely made up conspiracy that the Orange Monster could only possibly have done it with the assistance of Josef Stalin in the Kremlin?

That ship has sailed, it was a good scam while it worked , but we now know this scandal has many genesis' some of which are from the Trump campaign itself. 

2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

You think he should have gracefully agreed to go along with such, what was effectively purely and simply a sour-grapes tantrum on an epic scale?

 Actually yeah he should have. That's called being an adult and putting country first and I believe is what innocent people would have done. Innocent people don't need to fight their legal battles in the public arena. 

3 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Treating it with utter contempt was the way to treat it. 

Sure if you have no concern for the long term wellbeing of America. 

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6 minutes ago, bee said:

I would estimate that the majority of the general public in the US and Europe and Russia would like politicians and
the military to grow up and move towards having a mutually respectful, peaceful and cordial relationship with Russia...

I would agree and I feel the same however........ 

Politics are crazy. I'm now laying out right wing arguments against a right winger supporting a right wingish president..............you cant hug someone when they're trying to destroy you and hope for the best. That's really a fundamental conservative principal , hell that's a Trump principle isn't it? He "punches back ten times harder" right? 

Yet he doesn't with Russia Hmmmmmmmmm 

Edited by Farmer77
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5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I would agree and I feel the same. 

Politics are crazy. I'm now laying out right wing arguments against a right winger supporting a right wingish president..............you cant hug someone when they're trying to destroy you and hope for the best. That's really a fundamental conservative principal , hell that's a Trump principle isn't it? He "punches back ten times harder" right? 

Yet he doesn't with Russia Hmmmmmmmmm 

Farmer, do you really believe that the Russians, or Josef Stalin at any rate, really Want to Destroy America? You've gone the way Expandmymind went! What kind of retaliation do you think it ought to warrant? Would you go all the way and recommend Retaliatory Military Action, or would you just say something vague about Stepping Up Sanctions? 

Here's an example of the alleged output of Stalin's Troll Factory.

“Trump is our only hope for a better future!”

That would surely be enough to destroy American Democracy! In fact, that in itself would be justification for Retaliatory Military Action! 

Edited by Vlad the Mighty
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2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I would agree and I feel the same. 

Politics are crazy. I'm now laying out right wing arguments against a right winger supporting a right wingish president..............you cant hug someone when they're trying to destroy you and hope for the best. That's really a fundamental conservative principal , hell that's a Trump principle isn't it? He "punches back ten times harder" right? 

Yet he doesn't with Russia Hmmmmmmmmm 

 

you literally have no shame.... but you are anonymous so why should you care...... :rolleyes:

 

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Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

Farmer, do you really believe that the Russians, or Josef Stalin at any rate, really Want to Destroy America? You've gone the way Expandmymind went! What kind of retaliation do you think it ought to warrant? Would you go all the way and recommend Retaliatory Military Action, and would you just say something vague about Stepping Up Sanctions? 

I know this is not directed at me - but:

I am sure the Russians are mighty p***ed by the sanctions, they are bound to be having a negative effect on the country and specific individuals close to Putin. I suspect, Putin is under pressure to retaliate somehow, Russian sanctions would have minimal impact and the military option is probably unrealistic. So I suspect that Putin has only two options - find a way to undermine / circumvent the sanctions and / or find another way to hit back at the USA the main proponent of sanctions.

Or of course he could be just sitting back taking it all on the chin.

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2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Farmer, do you really believe that the Russians, or Josef Stalin at any rate, really Want to Destroy America?

Of course, well at least destroy its ability to function on the international stage. That should be the goal of every nation regarding every nation right? 

3 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

What kind of retaliation do you think it ought to warrant? Would you go all the way and recommend Retaliatory Military Action, or would you just say something vague about Stepping Up Sanctions? 

I would definitely say harsher sanctions should be put in effect, I'm certainly not saying military action should be on the table , but even a slight rebuff from the POTUS would be a great start. (or you know him believing his intelligence agencies over the Russians)

4 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Here's an example of the alleged output of Stalin's Troll Factory.

“Trump is our only hope for a better future!”

That would surely be enough to destroy American Democracy! In fact, that in itself would be justification for Retaliatory Military Action!

Yes you can post one quote and proclaim that was the extent of what was done ala foxnews, that however doesn't tell "the rest of the story" (talk radio listeners will get that) does it?

 

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10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Of course, well at least destroy its ability to function on the international stage. That should be the goal of every nation regarding every nation right?

 

you can't be serious...?

 

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5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Of course, well at least destroy its ability to function on the international stage. That should be the goal of every nation regarding every nation right? 

It never ceases to amaze me the people who would rather go to war with Russia than have Trump as President ...especially from so called "progressives".

What's another country to destroy? :sk

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4 minutes ago, bee said:

 

you can't be serious...?

 

He may have either become a totally ruthless neo-Darwinist capitalist, or he may be being satirical.It's really getting hard to tell. 

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4 minutes ago, bee said:

 

you can't be serious...?

 

Only halfway so. 

If one wants to be a "superpower" then yes, I am serious......and no I'm pretty OK with not being a superpower under that paradigm but it is what it is.   

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Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

He may have either become a totally ruthless neo-Darwinist capitalist, or he may be being satirical.It's really getting hard to tell. 

I'm totally having that same problem :lol: :P 

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19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 

Yes you can post one quote and proclaim that was the extent of what was done ala foxnews, that however doesn't tell "the rest of the story" (talk radio listeners will get that) does it?

 

so you're in fact in possession of more intelligence (possibly even the metadata) than the general public has been allowed to know? Because hardly anything that even the Witchhunter General himself has made public seems to have been much more stunning or horrifying than that, let alone proof that the Commies Want to Destroy America because That's Just the Kind of Thing They Always Want to Do.

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1 minute ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

so you're in fact in possession of more intelligence (possibly even the metadata) than the general public has been allowed to know? Because hardly anything that even the Witchhunter General himself has made public seems to have been much more stunning or horrifying than that, let alone proof that the Commies Want to Destroy America because That's Just the Kind of Thing They Always Want to Do.

No I'm simply saying an honest evaluation of the known actions taken by the Russians shows their actions are worth retaliating over.  They basically set up their own propaganda network here in the US with the sole intent of spreading discord by capitalizing on the already established riffs in America.  How anyone can argue that is acceptable or just NBD is beyond me. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No I'm simply saying an honest evaluation of the known actions taken by the Russians shows their actions are worth retaliating over.  They basically set up their own propaganda network here in the US with the sole intent of spreading discord by capitalizing on the already established riffs in America.

You know that the US has been doing that since the 1940s?  Voice of America  Radio Free Europe (to which you could add Washington Post, to all intents and purposes, since that's a propaganda outlet pure and simple now,)

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Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

You know that the US has been doing that since the 1940s?  Voice of America  Radio Free Europe  

Absolutely and I'm not a fan.

That doesn't mean we should just roll over as a nation and say "aw shucks , you got us, go ahead its your turn" . 

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Here's a hypothetical question Farmer: Suppose it had been the other way round, that it had looked inevitable that a fanatical rightwing Republican President would take office, and would tear up the Constitution and give himself dictatorial powers and invade anywhere in the world he felt like, and the Democratic contender, say,  a plucky female, didn't seem to have a hope, until intelligence in the form of incriminating emails that revealed just how the Republican party treated its supporters was revealed, possibly through the aid of a foreign source, (but more likely to come from within the Party itself). Would you still be incandescent with fury at this possible intervention from a foreign country in Sacred American Democracy, to the extent of saying that it wanted to completely destroy America? Or would you be rather relieved and grateful?

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2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Here's a hypothetical question Farmer: Suppose it had been the other way round, that it had looked inevitable that a fanatical rightwing Republican President would take office, and would tear up the Constitution and give himself dictatorial powers and invade anywhere in the world he felt like, and the Democratic contender, say,  a plucky female, didn't seem to have a hope, until intelligence in the form of incriminating emails that revealed just how the Republican party treated its supporters was revealed, possibly through the aid of a foreign source, (but more likely to come from within the Party itself). Would you still be incandescent with fury at this possible intervention from a foreign country in Sacred American Democracy, to the extent of saying that it wanted to completely destroy America? Or would you be rather relieved and grateful?

I'm one of those stubborn principled *******s amigo. I would still be p***ed that another nation intervened in that manner.

As an aside I know its been a long time but lets not forget I was rooting for Trump to beat Hillary if an asteroid didn't kill us all first, that was my real hope, but outside of that I wanted Trump to win. 

 

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1 hour ago, bee said:

 

seriously...?

I'm sure Vlad would find that amusing but I have to say that he is very un~robot like in his responses...IMO

I'd say a lot of the anti~Trump name calling + insulting stuff is pretty simple and structurally repetitive  (see underlined below) :unsure2:
Not all of it, of course... but certain themes seem to be spread around and coordinated like..... a Trump's a racist theme....
then a period of Trump's mentally unstable theme .... or  Trumps tax reforms are only for the rich theme.... etc etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot

 

My point is, the Russian interference was designed to create discord. And I am never sure which side Vlad is on.

P.S.. the russian bots were also real people.

P.P.S. U.M  bots may or may not also be real people. No wonder it's hard to trust reality.

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Just now, Kismit said:

And I am never sure which side Vlad is on.

I do appreciate that about him, it makes for interesting conversation. 

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1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

I do appreciate that about him, it makes for interesting conversation. 

I do value the intelligent input he provides.

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I'd recommend reading that story I posted earlier, Farmer. Obviously it wouldn't convince you that the Russian Meddling was hardly a Kremlin-controlled operation, but I doubt anything would .

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6 minutes ago, Kismit said:

And I am never sure which side Vlad is on.

How do you mean?

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14 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

I'd recommend reading that story I posted earlier, Farmer. Obviously it wouldn't convince you that the Russian Meddling was hardly a Kremlin-controlled operation, but I doubt anything would .

Yeah IDK it came across to me as a whole lot of "nothing to see here, move along" and then the author wraps up the article by trying to claim the NSA is a "real" troll factory as if undermanned (albeit well backed)  ragtag forces have never changed the course of history. Clearly I'm typing from a nation that is living proof that mentality isn't necessarily a safe bet. 

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8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I'm no longer convinced that Trump isn't somehow on some level under Russian control - now let me be clear that I'm not convinced that he is either - but either way I believe it will be a long time before we find out the full extent of how badly Trump and company have harmed this nation. 

Haha hmm!, who knows..maybe even blackmail :ph34r:..

Anyway's, since there has been no actual concrete proof of collusion with the Russians by Trump / and or associates then all people have is only speculation and guessing at this time. Sooo, putting the alleged collusion thing aside... 

I'm sure that many would probably agree that there has been a certain warmish connection with Russia by some of the Trump family and troupe concerning Russian business interests, and also Russian government representatives whom have played a significant part in their lives for some reason or other. The odd thing is tho, that getting any straight answers to any enquiries in regards to this, has either been contradictory, conflicting and certainly confusing, which in itself gets the mind boggling.  

I also think that it was obvious that Mr Putin and the Russian government wanted Donald Trump to prevail over Clinton. As it was well known that there was NO love loss between the two (Clinton, Putin) because of her hard-lined approach to him and his administration. 

Even so...I would imagine that there's some very interesting day's ahead... :tu:..

Edited by Astra.
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6 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah IDK it came across to me as a whole lot of "nothing to see here, move along" and then the author wraps up the article by trying to claim the NSA is a "real" troll factory as if undermanned (albeit well backed)  ragtag forces have never changed the course of history. Clearly I'm typing from a nation that is living proof that mentality isn't necessarily a safe bet. 

Seriously, Farmer? The NSA, CIA, State Department, all those massive organizations with the full weight of the US Government behind them, compared with an eccentric Russian who it seemed set up this "troll factory" as a hobby and, more than anything else, a money making scheme, with, not even Inquisitor in Chief Mueller has managed to find, any official support from the Russian Government? Are you trying to compare it with those who instigated the War of Independence now? You really ought to calm down and get a new pair of glasses perhaps, one that offers a better sense of perspective. :unsure: 

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