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and then

Turkey Using Chemical Weapons in Afrin

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and then

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/9a54dffe-3ee2-44a8-804b-a79a82f6595b

Chlorine shells from Turkish artillery is alleged.  IF true, this would be very troubling.  The Turkish advance into this Kurdish area seems to be stymied and after only a few weeks of taking losses, Erdogan's military seems to be resorting to WMD, even if on a small scale so far.  The article references a report in the SANA news agency as confirmation but I couldn't find it.  If the allegations are proven, how should NATO react?

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Clockwork_Spirit

I wonder if Trump would bomb them.. I doubt it!

If anything, this will expose once more the hypocrisy of our Western leaders.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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Clockwork_Spirit
7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

turkey is using chlorine gas against the Kurds. 

Or... is it the other way around ? 

http://www.newsweek.com/turkey-says-us-ally-kurds-used-same-chemical-weapons-assad-accused-syria-800529

Or both ? 

No, it's Assad. It can only be Assad.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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and then
1 minute ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I wonder if Trump would bomb them.. I doubt it!

If anything, this will expose the hypocrisy of our Western leaders.

No, he wouldn't bomb Turkey but I have no doubt that if Turkish troops attack Kurds that have U.S. forces embedded, U.S. generals have permission to defend themselves.  That situation exists in Manbij and Erdogan has warned that he won't make a distinction between Kurs and Americans when his forces arrive to control Manbij.  

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Captain Risky
56 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I wonder if Trump would bomb them.. I doubt it!

If anything, this will expose once more the hypocrisy of our Western leaders.

sad but true. i applauded Trump when he bombed Assad's Syria for doing the same thing. it was right on so many levels, even if it risked war with Russia. but this looking the other way to please an even bigger villain is disgraceful. i understand that Turkey is an ally (in name only) but supporting this Turkish dictator is only going to erode America's security dow the tract. someone needs to tell Trump this.  

Edited by Captain Risky

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Captain Risky
1 hour ago, and then said:

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/9a54dffe-3ee2-44a8-804b-a79a82f6595b

Chlorine shells from Turkish artillery is alleged.  IF true, this would be very troubling.  The Turkish advance into this Kurdish area seems to be stymied and after only a few weeks of taking losses, Erdogan's military seems to be resorting to WMD, even if on a small scale so far.  The article references a report in the SANA news agency as confirmation but I couldn't find it.  If the allegations are proven, how should NATO react?

excellent post. keep them coming.

well i think we both know how NATO and America should re-act to this war crime but sadly i can't see Trump being even-handed and applying the same standards against Turkey as he did to Assad and Russia. i was reading another link to the story and it raises an excellent point. being that Macron threatened to bomb any one that was going to use chemical weapons in Syria. so i guess we should be expecting French fighter bombers over Syria taking out Turkish military positions? fat chance!

 http://www.dw.com/en/turkey-denies-use-of-chemical-weapons-in-syria/a-42627819

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Essan

Erdogan is just another Saddam Hussain.  

:(

Turkey should not be in NATO.  If it remains, then Britain should not be in NATO.

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Essan

btw the argue "you did something bad, so its okay for me to do the same" is not one I would want to defend ;) 

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, and then said:

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/9a54dffe-3ee2-44a8-804b-a79a82f6595b

Chlorine shells from Turkish artillery is alleged.  IF true, this would be very troubling.  The Turkish advance into this Kurdish area seems to be stymied and after only a few weeks of taking losses, Erdogan's military seems to be resorting to WMD, even if on a small scale so far.  The article references a report in the SANA news agency as confirmation but I couldn't find it.  If the allegations are proven, how should NATO react?

Where's GW Bush when you need him?

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and then
19 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Where's GW Bush when you need him?

Probably quietly plotting ways to remove or diminish the power of our current president.  So, BRD, IF proof is found that Turkish forces actually did this, what do you think NATO should do?  The idea of a NATO member breaking the international law on chemical weapons use is profoundly serious, IMO.   

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Black Red Devil
9 minutes ago, and then said:

Probably quietly plotting ways to remove or diminish the power of our current president.  So, BRD, IF proof is found that Turkish forces actually did this, what do you think NATO should do?  The idea of a NATO member breaking the international law on chemical weapons use is profoundly serious, IMO.   

Heavy sanctions.  I doubt NATO will kick Turkey out.  After all, they're probably hoping when Er Dog goes it will be a whole new ball game.  Recent actions by Turkey against the Kurds are not excusable (specially if the claims of WMD are true) but understandable considering the amount of Kurds living within Turkey and now amassed on their borders claiming independence.  This would be a constant problem if and when Er Dog goes as well.  It would be like Mexicans in Texas, California and New Mexico causing unrest because they feel they belong more to Mexico than the US and it's probably true that many do feel that way.  Likewise, a headache I'm sure the US Govt could do without especially if there's a big movement pushing for seperation.

In Turkey's case I'm not sure what the best solution is but I don't think Er Dog is the one to seek them with.

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Clockwork_Spirit
8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

sad but true. i applauded Trump when he bombed Assad's Syria for doing the same thing. it was right on so many levels, even if it risked war with Russia.

I'm still not convinced. Facts are hard to establish in Syria without a proper, independant investigation on the ground. There was none. I think Trump jumped on the opportunity to make a point, he needed to prove himself and so targeted Assad's forces without solid proof.

In this case, it could be Turkey, it could be Kurdish elements staging attacks in Afrin. Who can tell?

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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Clockwork_Spirit
2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Heavy sanctions.  I doubt NATO will kick Turkey out.  After all, they're probably hoping when Er Dog goes it will be a whole new ball game.  Recent actions by Turkey against the Kurds are not excusable (specially if the claims of WMD are true) but understandable considering the amount of Kurds living within Turkey and now amassed on their borders claiming independence.  This would be a constant problem if and when Er Dog goes as well.  It would be like Mexicans in Texas, California and New Mexico causing unrest because they feel they belong more to Mexico than the US and it's probably true that many do feel that way.  Likewise, a headache I'm sure the US Govt could do without especially if there's a big movement pushing for seperation.

The U.S. and Turkey still have the same agenda in Syria. That's what people forget. They wish for a Syria rid of the Assad regime where Russian and Iranian influence is greatly diminished. They just have different views on how to achieve that. The U.S. think that Kurdish fighters are the best to take on jihadist elements and retain northern Syria permanently. Erdogan would prefer a foreign military intervention from NATO to back the so-called ''Free Syrian Army'' (and eclectic group of Arab 'freedom fighters' and islamists) on the ground. They just can't agree.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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Black Red Devil
1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

The U.S. and Turkey still have the same agenda in Syria. That's what people forget. They wish for a Syria rid of the Assad regime where Russian and Iranian influence is greatly diminished. They just have different views on how to achieve that. The U.S. think that Kurdish fighters are the best to take on jihadist elements and retain northern Syria permanently. Erdogan would prefer a foreign military intervention from NATO to back the so-called ''Free Syrian Army'' (and eclectic group of Arab 'freedom fighters' and islamists) on the ground. They just can't agree.

Actually, their agendas are not the same.  Turkey's real enemy are the Kurds who being of Persian origin are ethnically different from Turks (as well as Arabs), although they are Sunni as most Turks.  More than religious its a struggle between ethnicities.  Turkey fears the creation of a Kurdistan on it's border and 20 million Kurds occupying large chunks of it's Anatolian region within it's border.  For Turkey, what happens in Syria with the Assad regime is low on its agenda while a US/Kurdish alliance against Assad is high on the US' agenda and endangers Turkish interests.   

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