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Phaeton80

Falsehoods And Lies

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bee
3 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

A New World Order, A Brave New World.. you know, that.

 

ok..... :) 

I'm on a learning curve with all that ----

Have you ever seen the film ... The Green Beautiful...?

It really carries kundalini power.... 

I'm kind of running out of steam a bit at the moment after writing that other long post  -

I'm thinking

something to do with spirituality
something to do with higher dimensions of existence
something to do with a crossroad 
one path to a more controlled, robotic, sexless destiny
another path to higher consciousness  

aaaanyway....... the Green Beautiful... :) (trailer)
 

 

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bee

 

I watched the whole of The Green Beautiful on YouTube a few years ago... can't remember exactly how many years...

Someone had put it in segments and I watched it before it was removed... 

I doubt you can find it there now.... not sure where you can find it ---

I suddenly remembered it when I was pondering briefly on the destiny of humankind just now....... as you do.....

Apparently....

http://www.kanduka.com/the-green-beautiful-the-forbidden-movie/

"This french movie from 1996 was forbidden in Europe by the European commission and it was banned in the USA." 
 

 

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preacherman76
On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:27 PM, bee said:

 

ok..... :) 

I'm on a learning curve with all that ----

 

Check this out.

 

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Phaeton80
On 5-3-2018 at 3:01 PM, and then said:

I agree that these are the "public" faces.  The actual people sit at the top of these organizations - and others less well known, I expect - and they answer to the REAL movers and shakers.  

 

On 6-3-2018 at 7:00 PM, Phaeton80 said:

 

Right, a penny for your thoughts on the Rothschild bloodline. Quite literally; the crux of the matter, one of if not the main nexus in that sense. Tracing their activities, their 'web', is one of the more obvious paths someone who wants to research this topic could follow.

 

..The silence is deafening, AT. Disappointing.

Why oh why does an exchange with you always come to an abrupt end when we come to the core of these specific subjects, when anything 'Jewish' is under scrutiny. Could it be.. a wee bit of cognitive dissonance at play here?

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
On 6-3-2018 at 9:40 PM, bee said:

 

I watched the whole of The Green Beautiful on YouTube a few years ago... can't remember exactly how many years...

Someone had put it in segments and I watched it before it was removed... 

I doubt you can find it there now.... not sure where you can find it ---

I suddenly remembered it when I was pondering briefly on the destiny of humankind just now....... as you do.....

Apparently....

http://www.kanduka.com/the-green-beautiful-the-forbidden-movie/

"This french movie from 1996 was forbidden in Europe by the European commission and it was banned in the USA." 
 

 


Thanks for the heads up, never heard of it before. Think it'll be hard to view though, did a quick search.. even torrents are non existent it seems.

Edit: Ah, there it is..

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then
36 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

 

..The silence is deafening, AT. Disappointing.

Why oh why does an exchange with you always come to an abrupt end when we come to the core of these specific subjects, when anything 'Jewish' is under scrutiny. Could it be.. a wee bit of cognitive dissonance at play here?

Mostly because it just gets tiresome, P80.  Whether the Rothschilds or other Jewish families are involved in those dark places doesn't really make them more culpable OR less.  The truth is that neither of us has true inside knowledge of who these entities are.  The difference is that you seem to believe that you do know the truth while I honestly admit that I have no clue.  My arguments regarding all things Jewish comes down to my support for the PEOPLE of Israel (Jacob) having the right to live in their historic homeland.  I disagree STRONGLY with the Jews here in the U.S. that work against Zionism for that reason.  IOW, my devotion is NOT to Jews, per se, it is to the RIGHTS of Jews to live in their promised place on this earth.  It is a strong article of my faith and not just a political whim.  If the Democrat Party, for example, began to strongly support Zionism and the Republicans disavowed it, I'd have a problem with voting for R's at the national level.

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Phaeton80
Just now, and then said:

Mostly because it just gets tiresome, P80.  Whether the Rothschilds or other Jewish families are involved in those dark places doesn't really make them more culpable OR less.  The truth is that neither of us has true inside knowledge of who these entities are.  The difference is that you seem to believe that you do know the truth while I honestly admit that I have no clue.  My arguments regarding all things Jewish comes down to my support for the PEOPLE of Israel (Jacob) having the right to live in their historic homeland.  I disagree STRONGLY with the Jews here in the U.S. that work against Zionism for that reason.  IOW, my devotion is NOT to Jews, per se, it is to the RIGHTS of Jews to live in their promised place on this earth.  It is a strong article of my faith and not just a political whim.  If the Democrat Party, for example, began to strongly support Zionism and the Republicans disavowed it, I'd have a problem with voting for R's at the national level.

 

Who says it does? You know the fact you jump up in defence like a cornered cat like you do here says it all really. I was merely asking your opinion on the Rothschilds, and curious how you see their position in the machinations we are discussing here, given they do take a central role. Its just funny to me you are on a similar route subjectwise, but steer clear of anything even remotely Jewish, or Jewish like. Your support of anything Israeli, who's (Ashkenazim) lineage / link to Jacob is highly questionable (while that of the Palestinians is, ironically enough, at least equally or even more identifiable) literally is unconditional. Which would put you at odds with your own prophet, 'God' even, Jesus Christ - if you were living an odd 1985 years ago in Jeru salem.

Sorry I asked, nevermind.

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and then
4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Who says it does? You know the fact you jump up in defence like a cornered cat like you do here says it all really. I was merely asking your opinion on the Rothschilds, and curious how you see their position in the machinations we are discussing here, given they do take a central role. Its just funny to me you are on a similar route subjectwise, but steer clear of anything even remotely Jewish, or Jewish like. Your support of anything Israeli, who's (Ashkenazim) lineage / link to Jacob is highly questionable (while that of the Palestinians is, ironically enough, at least equally or even more identifiable) literally is unconditional. Which would put you at odds with your own prophet, 'God' even, Jesus Christ - if you were living an odd 1985 years ago in Jeru salem.

Sorry I asked, nevermind.

Now that you got that little spleen vented, what was your point in mentioning the Rothschilds?  Surely it wasn't to attempt to posit that some dark Jewish Cabal is controlling the planet?  I'd expect better from you.  I did NOT say anything about supporting all Jews, no matter what evils they might take part in.  I very clearly set parameters for my support.  Perhaps you could do the same in a specific way?  Unless, of course, you actually DO believe that all the evil on the planet is controlled and directed by Jews.  

FTR - I believe that Jews - as HUMAN BEINGS - are as capable of good or evil as any other group.  I believe that the secular government in Israel is capable of as much corruption and intrigue as any other government anywhere on earth.  I just don't take it as far as some do, where Israel is the worst in all categories and is guilty of every crime that can be mentioned.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, and then said:

Now that you got that little spleen vented, what was your point in mentioning the Rothschilds?  Surely it wasn't to attempt to posit that some dark Jewish Cabal is controlling the planet?  I'd expect better from you.  I did NOT say anything about supporting all Jews, no matter what evils they might take part in.  I very clearly set parameters for my support.  Perhaps you could do the same in a specific way?  Unless, of course, you actually DO believe that all the evil on the planet is controlled and directed by Jews.  

FTR - I believe that Jews - as HUMAN BEINGS - are as capable of good or evil as any other group.  I believe that the secular government in Israel is capable of as much corruption and intrigue as any other government anywhere on earth.  I just don't take it as far as some do, where Israel is the worst in all categories and is guilty of every crime that can be mentioned.


Look, its all good & well you regard 'Jews' as 'Gods Chosen People', Israel as 'Gods promised land' for thesame; please dont try and position me as the mirror image of your own extreme (pro Zionist) stance. You have done this on countless occasions before, this seems to be one of your main defensive tactics. Everyone that stands critical towards your 'unwaverable support', you passionately and decisively sweep onto the 'anti Semite, Jew hating' pile in an effort to rationalize your own paradigm (while a mindnumbing irony is at play here also, given Palestinians are Semites too.. and your opinion on / defense of actions against Palesintians could effectively be labelled as anti Semitical).

Not only with Jews and Israel neither; when people address the crimes your own good ol' USA has been guilty of, you simply call them 'America haters'. You structurally marginalize the crimes of your own team, and dramatize / hype those of 'the other side'.

You end your post with another instance of an convenient extremization of your argumentative opponents, those who do not fanatically support Israel like you and yours. Who on this board has ever claimed Israel is the worst in all categories, and guilty of every crime that can be mentioned? No one, Im quite sure. I would be extremely surprised if you ever encountered anyone on here that actually said what you claim here. Also, I have never seen you critical towards the Israeli Zionist state, ever. Could it be you are marginalizing your own level of support, and extremizing the hate of others against Israel vielleicht?

I already indicated my point in mentioning the Rothschilds, but you must have read over that while busy making simplistic, premature / convenient conclusions.

 

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then
4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Not only with Jews and Israel neither; when people address the crimes your own good ol' USA has been guilty of, you simply call them 'America haters'. You structurally marginalize the crimes of your own team, and dramatize / hype those of 'the other side'.

This seems to be at the root of your opinions on the problems in the world.  You certainly aren't alone and you needn't attempt to appear rational, logical and dispassionate about it, P80.   I'll try again for an honest, non-tortured answer - do you imagine that this Jewish family, the Rothschilds, are guilty of dark crimes against humanity and if so, do you actually have any kind of proof of what those crimes are?  I hear a lot about these shadowy groups and I've come to believe that there has to be at least SOME truth to the stories because the world makes no sense any longer.  Maybe it never did and I was just too deluded to see it but in the past decade or so, everything that I grew up believing - with the exception of my faith in Christ - has all been turned on its head.

If you blame the Jews for the world's ills then at least have the courtesy to cite some sources so that I can educate myself a bit.  I'm actually trying to have a dialog here, not just swap barbs.  As to minimizing the wrongs of my nation or Israel, guilty as charged.  I see myself as a patriot where America is concerned.  IMO, a person need not lead the charge against the actions of every crooked politician or policy to be an honest observer and commentator.  If you think there aren't enough voices on UM that decry the misdeeds of America and Israel then I'm sure you know you are only a few keystrokes away from some of the vilest, unverified accusations and biased opinions that can exist about ANY nation or person - and it's all aimed at America and Israel.  They certainly don't need my voice.

So put up or shut up, P80.  Show me evidence - not murky, sinister innuendo, of the crimes of the Rothschilds.  Crimes that aren't being committed by every other massively wealthy family on the planet, regardless of their heritage or faith.  THAT is the critical point.  

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, and then said:

This seems to be at the root of your opinions on the problems in the world.  You certainly aren't alone and you needn't attempt to appear rational, logical and dispassionate about it, P80.   I'll try again for an honest, non-tortured answer - do you imagine that this Jewish family, the Rothschilds, are guilty of dark crimes against humanity and if so, do you actually have any kind of proof of what those crimes are?  I hear a lot about these shadowy groups and I've come to believe that there has to be at least SOME truth to the stories because the world makes no sense any longer.  Maybe it never did and I was just too deluded to see it but in the past decade or so, everything that I grew up believing - with the exception of my faith in Christ - has all been turned on its head.

If you blame the Jews for the world's ills then at least have the courtesy to cite some sources so that I can educate myself a bit.  I'm actually trying to have a dialog here, not just swap barbs.  As to minimizing the wrongs of my nation or Israel, guilty as charged.  I see myself as a patriot where America is concerned.  IMO, a person need not lead the charge against the actions of every crooked politician or policy to be an honest observer and commentator.  If you think there aren't enough voices on UM that decry the misdeeds of America and Israel then I'm sure you know you are only a few keystrokes away from some of the vilest, unverified accusations and biased opinions that can exist about ANY nation or person - and it's all aimed at America and Israel.  They certainly don't need my voice.

So put up or shut up, P80.  Show me evidence - not murky, sinister innuendo, of the crimes of the Rothschilds.  Crimes that aren't being committed by every other massively wealthy family on the planet, regardless of their heritage or faith.  THAT is the critical point.  


Would you kindly cease with the 'evil jew controlling the world' nonsense, feverishly trying to attribute it to my person? If this is your way of actually trying to have a dialog, you are not very succesful in it.

There are some facts that could be mentioned which would surely underwrite my position. But it will hardly be any surprise such explicit proof is not easy to provide. Because if it were, these machinations would be at grave risk. Secrecy, and moving in the shadows, are pivotal in its success, and I'd imagine they have become increasingly apt at it.

'Give me control over a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws.'
- Mayer Amshel de Rothschild
 

Quote

J. W. McCallister, an oil industry insider with House of Saud connections, wrote in The Grim Reaper that information he acquired from Saudi bankers cited 80% ownership of the New York Federal Reserve Bank- by far the most powerful Fed branch- by just eight families, four of which reside in the US. They are the Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Lehmans and Kuhn Loebs of New York; the Rothschilds of Paris and London; the Warburgs of Hamburg; the Lazards of Paris; and the Israel Moses Seifs of Rome.

CPA Thomas D. Schauf corroborates McCallister’s claims, adding that ten banks control all twelve Federal Reserve Bank branches. He names N.M. Rothschild of London, Rothschild Bank of Berlin, Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Warburg Bank of Amsterdam, Lehman Brothers of New York, Lazard Brothers of Paris, Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York, Israel Moses Seif Bank of Italy, Goldman Sachs of New York and JP Morgan Chase Bank of New York. Schauf lists William Rockefeller, Paul Warburg, Jacob Schiff and James Stillman as individuals who own large shares of the Fed. [3] The Schiffs are insiders at Kuhn Loeb. The Stillmans are Citigroup insiders, who married into the Rockefeller clan at the turn of the century.

Eustace Mullins came to the same conclusions in his book The Secrets of the Federal Reserve, in which he displays charts connecting the Fed and its member banks to the families of Rothschild, Warburg, Rockefeller and the others. [4]

The control that these banking families exert over the global economy cannot be overstated and is quite intentionally shrouded in secrecy. Their corporate media arm is quick to discredit any information exposing this private central banking cartel as “conspiracy theory”. Yet the facts remain.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/25080

 

Quote

Although the internet is awash with hyperbolic and speculative articles on the nature of the Rothschild family, there is no question they are one of the most influential, powerful and wealthiest dynasties in modern history. The Rothschild’s emerged as the preeminent banking dynasty in Europe in the latter period of the 18th century, and continued to expand and grow in successive generations. They understood that the most effective way to influence and control the political affairs of a country, was to create and manage the financial system of that country.  As the late Carroll Quigley – a historian, establishment insider and Professor at Georgetown University – wrote in his 1966 book, Tragedy and Hope:

“In time [the merchant bankers of London] brought into their financial network the provincial banking centers, organized as commercial banks and savings banks, as well as insurance companies, to form all of these into a single financial system on an international scale which manipulated the quantity and flow of money so that they were able to influence, if not control, governments on one side and industries on the other. The men who did this, looking backward toward the period of dynastic monarchy in which they had their own roots, aspired to establish dynasties of international bankers and were at least as successful at this as were many of the dynastic political rulers” (1998 printing: p.51).

Quigley continues:

The greatest of these dynasties, of course, were the descendents of Meyer Amschel Rothschild (1743-1812) of Frankfurt, whose male descendents, for at least two generations, generally married first cousins or even nieces. Rothschild’s five sons, established at branches in Vienna, London, Naples and Paris, as well as Frankfurt, cooperated together in ways which other international banking dynasties copied but rarely excelled (1998 printing: p.51).

https://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-intimate-relationship-with-the-rothschild-banking-dynasty-the-shadowy-network-of-super-elites/5542966


They wield control over entities such as the FED, IMF, BIS, CFR, and Trilateral Commission. What makes the unraveling o/t web a bit easier is to identify their associates, affiliates.. and trace the lines. Like there be Schiff, Warburg, Rockefeller, Morgan, Dulles, DuPont. They (Rothschilds) are the quintessential moneychangers which Jesus Christ raged against, (spiritual) corruption in the highest echelons of society. Usury is a grave crime in all Abrahamic religions, 'Gentile' or not.

Another line to follow, the Israeli Supreme Court, donated by another member of the dynasty: Dorothy de Rothschild.

6-23-2009-3-27-02-PM.jpg?resize=400,276

Herein lies a link to the Kabbalah, 'Jewish Mysticism', Freemasonry. A nexus of the Rothschild web that spawns a complete new set of lines to traverse. The red shield, with the socalled “Star of David,” is an occult symbol from the 13th Century occult Kabbalah and only became widely associated with Jewish people after the Rothschilds adopted it for themselves. It has absolutely no connection to “King David” as Jewish historical sources confirm. " The earliest Jewish usage of the symbol was inherited from medieval Arabic literature by Kabbalists for use in talismanic protective amulets (segulot) where it was known as a Seal of Solomon "
 

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then

Thank you for posting this.  I will read it and any other links within it.  It will take some time so don't begin to rant against me for a while.  

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Sir Smoke aLot
On 3/4/2018 at 4:53 PM, Phaeton80 said:


Right, and which groups, families, would you label as such? Soros, I think would be a safe bet. Who else, or who evenmore.. can you elaborate on that somewhat for me? Edit: Surely, you arent afraid to be called 'a conspiracy theorist', I do hope.
 

Just follow the money, as popular saying goes. All those ( groups, families ) are alike, two sides of the same coin so to say. Soros, AIPAC, Zionists and related bankers and mega corporation world plus affiliated, friendly to them governments. This is is all the beauty of free speech, neither we insult someone nor do we break laws by talking about public figures. I gotta reference trials of 'Hustler' magazine regarding the term 'public'.

In 1929 there was study, published at the time, which was describing that there are 'trillions of riches in Dead Sea resources'. So called ruling elites knew this, hence there was speed up of process of taking it for themselves.

Today Dead Sea is exploited so much that it's shrinking rapidly ( losing water rapidly since 1970's as i remember, mostly because of potash but there are other important minerals too ) and there is one project ( for which i hope it will be made ) to bring water from Mediterranean Sea as means to prevent losing that industrial and tourism heaven. LINK about the project. There is official site too and in 1990's it was presented by academically educated people that such effort could not only bring water and sustainable industry but also peace to the region ( Israel being leading country in desalination technology - which is important for removing resources mainly ).

Today, it's not about the money anymore but about using that money to project power. For example, we can check what the USA was before and with JFK and what it has became after JFK.

Not only that talking about this can make one be labeled as 'conspiracy theorist' but also as anti-Human and makes it so that their claims get disproved not only because of the information they tell ( which is reasonable if information is incorrect ) but because of discrediting the one who tells that information.

Personally, i love to talk about this and search through numerous books for info and most of all i like when i find info which proves me wrong but that's not really what happens often. Big thanks to archives of newspapers and decent humans who risked their carriers and lives to practice freedom of speech. Israel is one aspect of 'elites' projecting the power, which i mentioned here, but larger picture surely is much more than that.

What should be done with hypothesis like this? Is it normal to dismantle it by proof of it being wrong? Or is it enough to simply put some labels on 'writer' and deny him his freedom of speech?

Today, it's the latter and that is exactly why this topic exists in first place because it would never get to the point of having thousands of lies around the web, not if such hypothesis were attacked by knowledge and fact rather than by discrediting and digging the dirt about someone.

People should never be silent about what they think because out of silence comes ignorance and hate.

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and then
21 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Would you kindly cease with the 'evil jew controlling the world' nonsense, feverishly trying to attribute it to my person? If this is your way of actually trying to have a dialog, you are not very succesful in it.

There are some facts that could be mentioned which would surely underwrite my position. But it will hardly be any surprise such explicit proof is not easy to provide. Because if it were, these machinations would be at grave risk. Secrecy, and moving in the shadows, are pivotal in its success, and I'd imagine they have become increasingly apt at it.

'Give me control over a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws.'
- Mayer Amshel de Rothschild
 

 


They wield control over entities such as the FED, IMF, BIS, CFR, and Trilateral Commission. What makes the unraveling o/t web a bit easier is to identify their associates, affiliates.. and trace the lines. Like there be Schiff, Warburg, Rockefeller, Morgan, Dulles, DuPont. They (Rothschilds) are the quintessential moneychangers which Jesus Christ raged against, (spiritual) corruption in the highest echelons of society. Usury is a grave crime in all Abrahamic religions, 'Gentile' or not.

Another line to follow, the Israeli Supreme Court, donated by another member of the dynasty: Dorothy de Rothschild.

6-23-2009-3-27-02-PM.jpg?resize=400,276

Herein lies a link to the Kabbalah, 'Jewish Mysticism', Freemasonry. A nexus of the Rothschild web that spawns a complete new set of lines to traverse. The red shield, with the socalled “Star of David,” is an occult symbol from the 13th Century occult Kabbalah and only became widely associated with Jewish people after the Rothschilds adopted it for themselves. It has absolutely no connection to “King David” as Jewish historical sources confirm. " The earliest Jewish usage of the symbol was inherited from medieval Arabic literature by Kabbalists for use in talismanic protective amulets (segulot) where it was known as a Seal of Solomon "
 

 

Okay, I've read these two articles and had a brief glance at the source materials.  What I see is a pattern of wealth being used by several families to increase that wealth, often at the expense of the masses by using the levers of government power.  These families seem to be predominately of Jewish background, though not totally comprised of Jews.  As I said before, there certainly seem to be power players in the shadows that are manipulating our governments and economies to an end which I really don't understand.  Perhaps you do.  

My support for the Jewish PEOPLE is predicated on my faith in the God of the Bible.  My belief is that they, corporately, have a right to live in and possess all of the lands between the Nile and the river Euphrates and from southern Syria to northern S.A.  That is my belief.  THAT is what I refer to when I speak of myself as a Christian Zionist.  It does NOT mean that I advocate for or approve of every action being taken by any particular secular government in power in Israel.

I refuse, for example, to blame the IDF for crimes they are accused of committing regards the Palestinians (with rare exceptions) due to the fact that the Palestinians have made it clear that they will never accept a Jewish state in Palestine.  They have been in a perpetual state of conflict and feel justified in such actions because "occupation".  It has nothing to do with "settlements" unless you call Tel Aviv and Haifa, settlements.  But to return to the main point... if you believe that the Jewish families that possess so much of the world's wealth, actually wanted for Israel to possess all that land and to remove the Palestinians by any means necessary, why would the Jews from Europe and especially the U.S., work so diligently to confound Israel's conservative politicians?  This puzzles me greatly.  Another well-known trope is that the "Jews control the U.S. media".  If this is so, then why do they vilify Israel so often?  Why do they increasingly mirror the Democrat Party line against Israel?

You reject any label that sets you against Jews as "evil, world despots" but all of the info that you shared points to exactly that description.

My opinions and beliefs regarding Israel's right to exist in Palestine are firm and they will never waiver.  If you believe that these uber-wealthy Jewish families are at the root of the negative changes and trends in the world today, perhaps you can briefly explain what you believe their end-game is?  I ask, sincerely, because when I do the math, what I come up with is a population of less than 20 million human beings that are supposed to rule the world on their own wealth and schemes for control.  That is patently ridiculous.

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Sir Smoke aLot

I have to enter your discussion again @and then and @Phaeton80, as you've mention 'evil Jews' narrative :D

Unfortunately such groups who hate Jews in general do exist and by some comments they make online we can easily deduct that spreading of lies and bans of truth and facts have lead people to some crazy conclusions and has fabricated such poisoned views that there is a lot of work to be done to make it right.

Just open large news sites and read comments there, or Youtube or any other site where there is large community and politics, history... 

There is so much literature available now which was forbidden before (or at least not printed because of all sorts of allegations). Some books i have read on this particular topic of ''Jews evil'' actually have nothing in them which can in any way depict Jewish people in general as 'evil' people but regardless, those were not published.

But some other books surely do have hatred towards Judaism, towards Islam, towards Christianity but they are being published on daily basis. Many times did i find myself closing e-book and deleting it from my PC before even going into it's message as it was obvious to where it leads.

Also, as a result of that i resented some titles at first, having such belief in my mind that 'its immoral thing to read those books' but on my surprise this particular book from Norman Finkelstein, 'Holocaust Industry' was not about denial of that event at all, even tho it was depicted as such for long time.

Because of that book he was labeled as Holocaust denier (which was absurd since both his father and his mother survived Warsaw Ghetto and Auschwitz) but only family he has had were his parents and everyone else from their line was murdered.

But truth finds the way and now even Wikipedia doesn't depict him as Holocaust denier.

From 2:20 in this video Mr. Hilberg explains it. Keep in mind that Mr. Hilberg is one of authorities on Holocaust studies. What this means is not denial of those terrible dark times in which millions of peoples lost their lives but about protecting the memory of those who lost their lives. As Mr. Hilberg says, Norman's style is a bit controversial but the message was the same, same substance.

I think that we all so easily find ourselves think that talking about something is insulting to some people when it is only insulting to those who feel called out.

It is impossible, logically and factually, to blame whole people for something. As long as we have such great people i name few of many: Emran Efrati, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shalim, Gilad Etzmon... It's long list.

Problem is that many people deny Judaism as a whole and would not have love for any of mentioned figures. But there are others too, those who base their opinion solely on facts. Which group gets labeled as 'wrong'? Those who speak things which are hard to process in normal minds? No, but those who have sane minds.

Check majority of white supremacist groups, they now claim how they should ally with other colors in order to fight Jews!? What i wonder is why they have their freedoms to spread their lies but scholars get denied rights because they write books of academic and historical value. It's just crazy.

So, falsehoods and lies or truth and critical thinking? What do you guys think which is regarded as human value? Based on which is more spread and more easily spread? Or based on factual profs. Currently, that which is more spread seems to get more views, regardless of content.

There is one truth: by banning works of people as those who i mention here the way was cleared for lunatics to pollute societies. Every wrong has to fire back and God do we see smoke and flames these days and most of it comes out of ignorance and lack of education. Ignorant and uneducated man can be easily seduced into all sorts of beliefs, especially if he is also unsatisfied with life generally. Fruitful terrain there is for blood thirsty maniacs who spread lies on daily basis but we are all responsible for that.

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Phaeton80
4 hours ago, and then said:

Okay, I've read these two articles and had a brief glance at the source materials.  What I see is a pattern of wealth being used by several families to increase that wealth, often at the expense of the masses by using the levers of government power.  These families seem to be predominately of Jewish background, though not totally comprised of Jews.  As I said before, there certainly seem to be power players in the shadows that are manipulating our governments and economies to an end which I really don't understand.  Perhaps you do.  

The only thing I know, or understand, is that I know very little indeed. I do have a theory, based on years delving into this and kindred subjects, but Im not going to spill my guts here on that. These sort of things need to be build up, bluntly stating my case here  - at this time, would be.. unwise. I could refer you to some sources, books.. but even that seems premature. If only for the fact your mind, from where Im standing, seems pretty closed up at certain points, it would be rather pointless. I say this with honesty, my intentions are not to insult you in any way.
 

My support for the Jewish PEOPLE is predicated on my faith in the God of the Bible.  My belief is that they, corporately, have a right to live in and possess all of the lands between the Nile and the river Euphrates and from southern Syria to northern S.A.  That is my belief.  THAT is what I refer to when I speak of myself as a Christian Zionist.  It does NOT mean that I advocate for or approve of every action being taken by any particular secular government in power in Israel.

I know it is. But may I propose to consider the possibility the Jewish People - or most zaelous Zionists today are possibly not equatable, or even relatable, with the Judeans and Israelites of old.. The ones G*d entered into a covenant with. Consider that even within those congregations, there was a significant Paganistic, rebellious pattern. The Bible attends to that, Im quite sure. In other words, to more or less unconditionally support Israel, or anything besides G*d Him very self for that matter, seems pretty risky, or unwise, spiritually- wise.
 

I refuse, for example, to blame the IDF for crimes they are accused of committing regards the Palestinians (with rare exceptions) due to the fact that the Palestinians have made it clear that they will never accept a Jewish state in Palestine.  They have been in a perpetual state of conflict and feel justified in such actions because "occupation".  It has nothing to do with "settlements" unless you call Tel Aviv and Haifa, settlements.  But to return to the main point... if you believe that the Jewish families that possess so much of the world's wealth, actually wanted for Israel to possess all that land and to remove the Palestinians by any means necessary, why would the Jews from Europe and especially the U.S., work so diligently to confound Israel's conservative politicians?  This puzzles me greatly.  Another well-known trope is that the "Jews control the U.S. media".  If this is so, then why do they vilify Israel so often?  Why do they increasingly mirror the Democrat Party line against Israel?

'The Palestinians' did no such thing. Equating the actions of a resistence militia with the whole oppressed population they hail from seems a bit unfair, wouldnt you say? And besides that, we have discussed this before, as long as these people are occupied and oppressed by a foreign military, vastly superior force.. and they have been for decades now, a certain level of backlash.. re action to the original action, can be expected (that is to say, can you honestly blame them.. wouldnt you do thesame or similar if in their shoes?). And yes, settlements do play a rather big part of the ongoing crimes against these Semites, natives to the region. To return to the main point; did I say I believed 'Jewish families' possess so much of the worlds wealth? I really dont think I did, you are the one making this Jewish. Some, or an impressive number of them indeed are, but not all of them (besides the question ofcourse, what the definition of 'Jewish' is). You seem to see resistence towards Israel by certain powerful groups (I am not aware of), I see quite the opposite.

Lets be honest here, if it were any other nation on earth doing what Israel is doing to the Palesintians over almost a century, the West would have dished out an impressive range of Shekhinah's.. I mean Shock and Awes before you could say 'Make America Great Again'. I think Israel is criticised more and more because of the fact their tactics and platforms of influence are beginning to show cracks, arent as effective anymore.
 

You reject any label that sets you against Jews as "evil, world despots" but all of the info that you shared points to exactly that description.

Does it really. Where did you find such implications in the material I forwarded? I'd like to know, because I wouldnt want to forward such toxic nonsense in the future, to anyone.
 

My opinions and beliefs regarding Israel's right to exist in Palestine are firm and they will never waiver.  If you believe that these uber-wealthy Jewish families are at the root of the negative changes and trends in the world today, perhaps you can briefly explain what you believe their end-game is?  I ask, sincerely, because when I do the math, what I come up with is a population of less than 20 million human beings that are supposed to rule the world on their own wealth and schemes for control.  That is patently ridiculous.

If you think that ridiculous, you should really look at the figures of wealthdistribution, and realize money still rules. Especially if your family has been working in a coordinated and zealous way to amass (monetary) power, over several centuries. They arent called the prophets of money for nothing. Id like to end with noting you have only touched upon certain parts of my post, and ignored others (which possibly were meant as a step into the deeper level of it all). Be that as it may, I enjoyed this. Maybe continue this in the future, have a nice one.

Peace.

 

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Phaeton80
On 12-3-2018 at 6:44 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I have to enter your discussion again @and then and @Phaeton80, as you've mention 'evil Jews' narrative :D

Unfortunately such groups who hate Jews in general do exist and by some comments they make online we can easily deduct that spreading of lies and bans of truth and facts have lead people to some crazy conclusions and has fabricated such poisoned views that there is a lot of work to be done to make it right.

Just open large news sites and read comments there, or Youtube or any other site where there is large community and politics, history... 

There is so much literature available now which was forbidden before (or at least not printed because of all sorts of allegations). Some books i have read on this particular topic of ''Jews evil'' actually have nothing in them which can in any way depict Jewish people in general as 'evil' people but regardless, those were not published.

But some other books surely do have hatred towards Judaism, towards Islam, towards Christianity but they are being published on daily basis. Many times did i find myself closing e-book and deleting it from my PC before even going into it's message as it was obvious to where it leads.

Also, as a result of that i resented some titles at first, having such belief in my mind that 'its immoral thing to read those books' but on my surprise this particular book from Norman Finkelstein, 'Holocaust Industry' was not about denial of that event at all, even tho it was depicted as such for long time.

Because of that book he was labeled as Holocaust denier (which was absurd since both his father and his mother survived Warsaw Ghetto and Auschwitz) but only family he has had were his parents and everyone else from their line was murdered.

But truth finds the way and now even Wikipedia doesn't depict him as Holocaust denier.

From 2:20 in this video Mr. Hilberg explains it. Keep in mind that Mr. Hilberg is one of authorities on Holocaust studies. What this means is not denial of those terrible dark times in which millions of peoples lost their lives but about protecting the memory of those who lost their lives. As Mr. Hilberg says, Norman's style is a bit controversial but the message was the same, same substance.

I think that we all so easily find ourselves think that talking about something is insulting to some people when it is only insulting to those who feel called out.

It is impossible, logically and factually, to blame whole people for something. As long as we have such great people i name few of many: Emran Efrati, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shalim, Gilad Etzmon... It's long list.

Problem is that many people deny Judaism as a whole and would not have love for any of mentioned figures. But there are others too, those who base their opinion solely on facts. Which group gets labeled as 'wrong'? Those who speak things which are hard to process in normal minds? No, but those who have sane minds.

Check majority of white supremacist groups, they now claim how they should ally with other colors in order to fight Jews!? What i wonder is why they have their freedoms to spread their lies but scholars get denied rights because they write books of academic and historical value. It's just crazy.

So, falsehoods and lies or truth and critical thinking? What do you guys think which is regarded as human value? Based on which is more spread and more easily spread? Or based on factual profs. Currently, that which is more spread seems to get more views, regardless of content.

There is one truth: by banning works of people as those who i mention here the way was cleared for lunatics to pollute societies. Every wrong has to fire back and God do we see smoke and flames these days and most of it comes out of ignorance and lack of education. Ignorant and uneducated man can be easily seduced into all sorts of beliefs, especially if he is also unsatisfied with life generally. Fruitful terrain there is for blood thirsty maniacs who spread lies on daily basis but we are all responsible for that.

 

I'd just want to say, I always enjoy listening to Finkelstein.. how he rattles up his argumentative opponents with 'insider knowledge and tactics'. Love the guy.

About which is regarded as a human value; I think the former (falsehoods and lies) proceeds from an absence of the latter (critical thinking and morals/truth).

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South Alabam
On 3/3/2018 at 4:40 AM, Phaeton80 said:

PS. Interesting how the OP post, while rather void of 'conspiracy content' for any objective individual, has been placed in the 'Conpiracies & Secret Societies' category by a mod. Sure, the last few posts have a 'conspiracy quality' to them, but that was after the move was made.

Kinda indicative of our present state of mind, and funnily; more or less confirmation of the OP implications.

And Soros has influence on many elections world wide and that is no conspiracy, that is a fact. Yet to believe Governments don't interfere in other Governments election is a conspiracy.

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Sir Smoke aLot

 

This was so creepy to see... I feel we are almost living in a society which is controlled in a way that we have seen in some movies.

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