Michelle Posted February 21, 2018 #51 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Where do people get the idea the NRA is this powerful entity? The same people who think the KKK is still relevant? I'd love to see people do their own research on how much money the NRA donates to the GOP compared to what others donate to the DNC and the GOP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why not Posted February 21, 2018 #52 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I own many guns and I'm very pro 2nd Amendment. I also believe there shoul be stricker laws on buying guns. To a point. The big problem in all this is mentally unstable kids wanting attention and trying to one up each other. The TV media and social media play a HUGE part of this problem. If kids were running cars into crowds of school kids and the media reported it the way they do with guns, you would have mentally unstable kids trying to one up the last one for the (glory). We didn't have this problem back in the 70's, 80's and much of the 90's because of the media attention. Don't get me wrong, there have always be problems here and there but, this incident happened because this little b****** wanted the media hype and social media attention. I have said to my wife for many years that if the media did not plaster the picture of these Demond's all over TV for weeks and refused to give their name (just age and other problems they may have had) some of this would not have happened. This atrocities is a prime example of copy cat attention wanting. I hope rotting in an isolation cell is what it's all cracked up to be for this kid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why not Posted February 21, 2018 #53 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Michelle said: Where do people get the idea the NRA is this powerful entity? The same people who think the KKK is still relevant? I'd love to see people do their own research on how much money the NRA donates to the GOP compared to what others donate to the DNC and the GOP. They need to blame someone and the NRA is always their target. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #54 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said: No, that is the difference between the two. They are definitely not the same. Then please enlighten us. There is a code of Ethics and a code of Morals. We live by two different sets of codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 21, 2018 #55 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Why not said: This atrocities is a prime example of copy cat attention wanting. As of now, ten kids have been arrested in my immediate area making threats on social media since the shooting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted February 21, 2018 #56 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: Then please enlighten us. There is a code of Ethics and a code of Morals. We live by two different sets of codes? Morals differ from person to person, from ideology to ideology, or from culture to culture. Morals are individual. Ethics is the science that tries to find a universal understanding of what is right or wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #57 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Then your not free at all, are you. That's very concerning that you think like that. I'm really glad I don't live near you. Most people try to be good no matter what, that you need a God to remain so indicates real problems IMHO I am free because I know my limits and responsibilities. No, people do not try to be good no matter what. I.e. we are seeing an increase in mass shootings. I wouldn't say that is being good no matter what. Morals are acquired but when the example is absent, Man resorts to his base self. Man is selfish from birth, hence why he cries. He learns to disrespect himself and others and unless taught otherwise, will continue to show disrespect through youth to adulthood. Morals or ethics originate from GOD, where you acquire them from doesn't matter. Once learned, you know your limits and become responsible for your actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted February 21, 2018 #58 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: I am free because I know my limits and responsibilities. No, people do not try to be good no matter what. I.e. we are seeing an increase in mass shootings. I wouldn't say that is being good no matter what. Morals are acquired but when the example is absent, Man resorts to his base self. Man is selfish from birth, hence why he cries. He learns to disrespect himself and others and unless taught otherwise, will continue to show disrespect through youth to adulthood. Morals or ethics originate from GOD, where you acquire them from doesn't matter. Once learned, you know your limits and become responsible for your actions. If the world would be that simple, we'd have a lo less problems. My GOD... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #59 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said: Morals differ from person to person, from ideology to ideology, or from culture to culture. Morals are individual. Ethics is the science that tries to find a universal understanding of what is right or wrong. Ethics differ from person to person, from ideology to ideology, of from culture to culture. Ethics are individual. Ethics is hardly a science. Morals is a universal understanding of what is right or wrong. Hence, they are interchangeable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 21, 2018 #60 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Michelle said: Where do people get the idea the NRA is this powerful entity? The same people who think the KKK is still relevant? I'd love to see people do their own research on how much money the NRA donates to the GOP compared to what others donate to the DNC and the GOP. Probably from the annual turnover, that indicates a lot of influence. I think what is really strange is the some US citizens think other countries are not free, or that if you don't have a gun your not free. Can't think where such brainwashing comes from unless a massive influence is involved. Enter the NRA. We saw John Oliver interview Phillip Van Cleeve of the VCDL and as a strong gun proponent it's obvious he has a few screws loose up top. With people like that in charge, credibility goes away rapidly. Or that you need to believe in God to not shoot anyone The NRA theory seems pretty mild compared to those two ridiculous notions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted February 21, 2018 #61 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, RavenHawk said: Ethics differ from person to person, from ideology to ideology, of from culture to culture. Ethics are individual. Ethics is hardly a science. Morals is a universal understanding of what is right or wrong. Hence, they are interchangeable. What? I'm sorry, I am interested in an honest discussion. Have fun with someone else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatecraft Posted February 21, 2018 #62 Share Posted February 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, psyche101 said: They sure do, that's just NRA brainwashing. FYI: I HATE the NRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #63 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, FLOMBIE said: If the world would be that simple, we'd have a lo less problems. My GOD... It is that simple but we have lots of problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #64 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, FLOMBIE said: What? I'm sorry, I am interested in an honest discussion. Have fun with someone else. You're the one making silly distinctions between the subtle differences of words. That's hardly having an honest discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted February 21, 2018 #65 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, RavenHawk said: You're the one making silly distinctions between the subtle differences of words. That's hardly having an honest discussion. Those are not even my distinctions. Those two words are not interchangeable. No need to reply. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #66 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said: Those are not even my distinctions. Those two words are not interchangeable. No need to reply. How 'bout a reposte? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 21, 2018 #67 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Probably from the annual turnover, that indicates a lot of influence. I think what is really strange is the some US citizens think other countries are not free, or that if you don't have a gun your not free. Can't think where such brainwashing comes from unless a massive influence is involved. Enter the NRA. We saw John Oliver interview Phillip Van Cleeve of the VCDL and as a strong gun proponent it's obvious he has a few screws loose up top. With people like that in charge, credibility goes away rapidly. Or that you need to believe in God to not shoot anyone The NRA theory seems pretty mild compared to those two ridiculous notions. Now I understand. You get your news from a comedian when he interviews someone who is not affiliated with the NRA. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBelieveWhatIWant Posted February 21, 2018 #68 Share Posted February 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: You really think so? Someone with a scalpel in that same situation, hit the alarm and as the crowd flows out into the hall, run through that crowd striking at the throat could kill even more before he is stopped. I feel sorry for you if you TRULY believe that Quote Or are you saying that one or two is ok? Right? Well, one is one too many. Or are you saying the hundreds of individuals that get killed in Chicago is ok, because it's one attacker, one victim? Besides, most are just Blacks anyway. Is that what you are getting at? 1 is better than 17 (FL shooting) or 58 (NV Shooting). Also...you are trying to insinuate that I am racist in some way? How conservative of you... Projection much? Quote What it is, is that society has gotten sicker because we have drifted from GOD. If you don't like GOD, then try morals, or even spirituality. When people have that sense of respect, there is no desire to kill others. No, YOU are the sick one to think that belief in a "God" magically will solve everything. Reminds me of people like Steve Harvey "Where's your moral barometer". If it was society (once again I go back to the country with strict gun laws) you would see mass killings using scalpels and other bull**** you wanna throw in there but the fact is that IT IS GUNS. If it was "lack of religion" you would see places like Australia (1/3rd of the country says they aren't religious) with random killings and people with scalpels waiting to slit throats but lo and behold you don't see that...hmmm makes you wonder if it is society as a whole. Don't come at me with your religion talk. All religion has done is set humanity back, and steal money from people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted February 21, 2018 #69 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Here's a good example: (from googling): Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong. Ethics: The rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group or culture. Morals: Principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct. While morals also prescribe dos and don'ts, morality is ultimately a personal compass of right and wrong. Morals also come from an external source. Ethics by the above definition are intended to become an individual's own principles and habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 21, 2018 #70 Share Posted February 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: I am free because I know my limits and responsibilities. Doesn't sound like it, you have to call on God to not shoot your neighbour and you feel a need to be armed. That sounds like control and fear to me. 20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: No, people do not try to be good no matter what. I.e. we are seeing an increase in mass shootings. I wouldn't say that is being good no matter what. People in other countries freely handed in weapons and went voluntarily on registers. That sounds like people being good and free. Sounds like they made their own decision to better their countries, and it worked. Countries with gun control don't have mass shootings every other week. You have not convinced me, not sure you sound like you've convinced yourself. 20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: Morals are acquired but when the example is absent, Man resorts to his base self. Stuff and nonsense. Professors in universities are predominantly atheist and all they do is try to understand the world and make it a better place. 20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: Man is selfish from birth, hence why he cries. That's a reaction from taking a first breath. You are dramatising to a ridiculous extent. 20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: He learns to disrespect himself and others and unless taught otherwise, will continue to show disrespect through youth to adulthood. Morals or ethics originate from GOD, where you acquire them from doesn't matter. Once learned, you know your limits and become responsible for your actions. No they never originated from an imaginary being. Religion hijacked the best qualities of mankind and showcased them as their own. If you need to rely on God to control yourself not to kill, it sounds like real mental problems to me. I'd recommend seeking councilling on that issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted February 21, 2018 #71 Share Posted February 21, 2018 It's funny(well maybe not) that the majority, if not all, of the good ideas on protecting the kids have come from outside the US. From inside? Excuses as to why it's too hard. Every other country has made this transition with exellent results. Stop with the excuses and do something. Hank 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 21, 2018 #72 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: It's funny(well maybe not) that the majority, if not all, of the good ideas on protecting the kids have come from outside the US. You haven't been on UM when it's been hashed and rehashed over and over again. In the end we in the US are at a stalemate about gun control...just as it is here. Edited February 21, 2018 by Michelle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted February 21, 2018 #73 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Hankenhunter said: No. Turning educational institutes into high security prisons is not the answer. Removing the ability of the NRA to lobby polititions , dictate gun laws,and play on the fears of people to buy more guns will do more than anything else. Remove the source to remove the problem. Hank 5 That First Amendment surely can be troublesome, now can't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 21, 2018 #74 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, hatecraft said: Nor do they have freedom. Yes, the Opporessive Junta that is Australia is a right hellhole because don’t own guns. ohhh wait. We CAN own guns here. Still don’t have mass murder of children though. It’s a right head scratcher. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted February 21, 2018 #75 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Michelle said: Where do people get the idea the NRA is this powerful entity? The same people who think the KKK is still relevant? I'd love to see people do their own research on how much money the NRA donates to the GOP compared to what others donate to the DNC and the GOP. They assume the NRA is some filthy rich entity that can dictate the political discussion through bribes ("donations") when the truth is that it's the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters that gives them their voice. THAT just aggravates their opponents no end. There is a societal disconnect with people from other cultures and they will never understand or approve and we shouldn't care in the slightest. America and its guns have come in pretty damned handy a couple of times in the 20th century. I wish the citizens of Oz and all the Brits here, all the best in managing their lives at home. Maybe they should ask themselves why they get so incensed over the choices we make when they aren't affected by them in any material way. This topic isn't about national defense or economic policies that would affect them, potentially. I get the distinct impression that this outpouring of anger is more about virtue signaling and arrogance over morality than it is any real concern over our dead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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