Gun Control ?

[RoofGardener]

13 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Yes, the Opporessive Junta that is Australia is a right hellhole because don’t own guns.

ohhh wait. We CAN own guns here. Still don’t have mass murder of children though. It’s a right head scratcher.

Meh... you're all too busy massacring our cricket team  

[psyche101]

15 minutes ago, and then said:

They assume the NRA is some filthy rich entity that can dictate the political discussion through bribes ("donations") when the truth is that it's the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters that gives them their voice.  THAT just aggravates their opponents no end.  There is a societal disconnect with people from other cultures and they will never understand or approve and we shouldn't care in the slightest.  America and its guns have come in pretty damned handy a couple of times in the 20th century.  I wish the citizens of Oz and all the Brits here, all the best in managing their lives at home.  Maybe they should ask themselves why they get so incensed over the choices we make when they aren't affected by them in any material way.  This topic isn't about national defense or economic policies that would affect them, potentially.  I get the distinct impression that this outpouring of anger is more about virtue signaling and arrogance over morality than it is any real concern over our dead.

350 million a year is filthy rich

People care because a lot of kids get killed. I thought you faith would have made you sympathise how others would comment on the plight of children and innocents when other countries successfully removed that risk.

Edited February 21, 2018 by psyche101

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, hatecraft said:

FYI:  I HATE the NRA.  

Then who gave you the insane notion that countries with gun control are not free? 

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

350 million a year is filthy rich

People care because a lot of kids get killed. I thought you faith would have made you sympathise how others would comment on the plight of children and innocents when other countries successfully removed that risk.

Unions alone donate FAR more than this to campaigns.  The numbers don't lie.  The NRA's power is in the numbers of VOTES they can produce at the polls.  This is a much greater incentive to motivate politicians than just the cash that is required to sway the electorate.  My statement stands because most of those here who are arguing this point are doing so with real anger.  That is not a sign of empathy or sympathy with our losses.  It is a sign of a desire to denigrate the choices of a majority of American citizens.  I wouldn't dream of taking such a stance on any issue in your nation.  The grief and puzzlement of those who are genuinely pained at the situation here are appreciated but the bottom line is that WE will make our own choices in this matter.  I would think that the unfolding crisis in our government over this past year would demonstrate just how necessary a check on raw political adventurism is.  

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

Now I understand. You get your news from a comedian when he interviews someone who is not affiliated with the NRA. lol

He is an authority with regards to gun advocacy in Virginia and affiliated with the NRA is he not? He was even a sheriff was he not? 

If that's the sort of people in charge of gun groups then it speaks for itself doesn't it? Why would the biggest richest group of them all be any better and not worse? 

[psyche101]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

Unions alone donate FAR more than this to campaigns.  The numbers don't lie.  The NRA's power is in the numbers of VOTES they can produce at the polls.  This is a much greater incentive to motivate politicians than just the cash that is required to sway the electorate.  My statement stands because most of those here who are arguing this point are doing so with real anger.  That is not a sign of empathy or sympathy with our losses.  It is a sign of a desire to denigrate the choices of a majority of American citizens.  I wouldn't dream of taking such a stance on any issue in your nation.  The grief and puzzlement of those who are genuinely pained at the situation here are appreciated but the bottom line is that WE will make our own choices in this matter.  I would think that the unfolding crisis in our government over this past year would demonstrate just how necessary a check on raw political adventurism is.  

They still make 350 million a year of the people don't they? Regardless of who donates to who it's still a huge enterprise that will be kept at any cost. 

I don't know if anyone wanting to step on any rights. Its common sense that had the citizens of other countries behind it. Its maddening from any vantage point on earth to see massacres on a regular basis when others have successfully stopped it. You have made your choices but considering the lives lost, I don't think they need be respected, most that I know who protest gun culture are concerned with the needless loss of life at what seems nothing more that a want or whim. It's hard to perceive gun culture as anything but selfish and at the cost of innocent lives. Sorry, but that's the motive behind the debates and that the picture gun culture paints outside of America. All gun control does is tell you where the decent folk are who follow the rules.  Anyone not on the register has somthing to hide. Its really that simple. You can tell the good people from the bad so much easier, and it works. Many living proof examples exist. 

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Anyone not on the register has somthing to hide. Its really that simple. You can tell the good people from the bad so much easier, and it works. Many living proof examples exist.

That's the main difference in our approach to freedom, psyche101.  In America, we don't CARE what the government wants or what they think of our right to own firearms.  Government isn't our parent or nanny.  It was created to serve US, not the other way around.  What we are seeing today isn't some magical lack of government control over guns.  We are witnessing the fruits of a decades-long moral degradation in our culture and it will only get worse unless we take real responsibility for that coarsening and turn it around.  No amount of gun control is going to change that social sickness that we've allowed into our culture.  People outside America don't want to see a solution that saves many lives.  They want a solution that validates their own culture and way of doing things.  WE are not you.  Just as you'd have no desire to be Americans and live as we do, we have no desire to live as Aussies choose to do.  That should be simple enough to understand, no?  It gets down to a common respect for our differences.

[Michelle]

51 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

He is an authority with regards to gun advocacy in Virginia and affiliated with the NRA is he not? He was even a sheriff was he not? 

If that's the sort of people in charge of gun groups then it speaks for itself doesn't it? Why would the biggest richest group of them all be any better and not worse? 

He may be a member of the NRA, I don't know. He was a sheriff? So? He's not my duly elected sheriff. Besides that, most people in the police department are pro gun...duh. They know they can't be everywhere to protect everybody. They see up close and personal what happens to defenseless people.

Thousands upon thousands of people pay a small fee to become a member of a group like the NRA to have their voices heard in government. At least they aren't out rioting and looting.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Michelle

[psyche101]

31 minutes ago, and then said:

That's the main difference in our approach to freedom, psyche101.  In America, we don't CARE what the government wants or what they think of our right to own firearms.  Government isn't our parent or nanny.  It was created to serve US, not the other way around.  What we are seeing today isn't some magical lack of government control over guns.  We are witnessing the fruits of a decades-long moral degradation in our culture and it will only get worse unless we take real responsibility for that coarsening and turn it around. 

The retorts of nanny state and lack of freedom sound like silly brainwashing tactics that defy logic and give gun proponents a bad reputation. 

We are not run by the government, we control it and if the government has an idea it goes to vote. If the people are behind it it goes ahead if not it doesn't go ahead. Gay marriage is a perfect example. 

I really doubt your founding fathers envisioned today's America so their values were for a different time and place 

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No amount of gun control is going to change that social sickness that we've allowed into our culture.  

Other countries as example prove otherwise. 

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People outside America don't want to see a solution that saves many lives. 

I only see that as an illusion and don't see how gun control would change that it would only identify the responsible legal gun owners. 

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They want a solution that validates their own culture and way of doing things. 

No that's paranoia mate. It's about the senseless loss of life. 

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WE are not you.  Just as you'd have no desire to be Americans and live as we do, we have no desire to live as Aussies choose to do. 

American cultures are hugely popular here with youth emulating it all the time. 

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That should be simple enough to understand, no?  It gets down to a common respect for our differences.

Its hard to respect a senses loss of life when no solution has been tried all we hear is silly rants about cold dead hands. There are many in your country behind gun control and many sympathise with that sensability. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

37 minutes ago, and then said:

That's the main difference in our approach to freedom, psyche101.  In America, we don't CARE what the government wants or what they think of our right to own firearms.  Government isn't our parent or nanny.  It was created to serve US, not the other way around.  What we are seeing today isn't some magical lack of government control over guns.  We are witnessing the fruits of a decades-long moral degradation in our culture and it will only get worse unless we take real responsibility for that coarsening and turn it around.  No amount of gun control is going to change that social sickness that we've allowed into our culture.  People outside America don't want to see a solution that saves many lives.  They want a solution that validates their own culture and way of doing things.  WE are not you.  Just as you'd have no desire to be Americans and live as we do, we have no desire to live as Aussies choose to do.  That should be simple enough to understand, no?  It gets down to a common respect for our differences.

What? You don’t want to be surrounded by murderous wildlife (AND FLORA!) governed by a pack of idiots who can’t cover up them giving one of their owns girlfriend a cushy job?

for shame And Then, for shame.

[Hankenhunter]

2 hours ago, and then said:

That First Amendment surely can be troublesome, now can't it  

 

What does the NRA have to do with the second amendment. Were they on hand when it was created? No, but they sure have a hand in gun policy now.

[Hankenhunter]

2 hours ago, Michelle said:

You haven't been on UM when it's been hashed and rehashed over and over again. In the end we in the US are at a stalemate about gun control...just as it is here.

Just another excuse. Keep hashing until you get it right. Remember it could be your kids or grandkids next. Times a wasting. 

Hank

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

He may be a member of the NRA, I don't know. He was a sheriff? So? He's not my duly elected sheriff. Besides that, most people in the police department are pro gun...duh. They know they can't be everywhere to protect everybody. They see up close and personal what happens to defenseless people.

Yes he was a sherif it strikes me as problematic if his reasons for gun advocacy are shared by other police. 

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

Thousands upon thousands of people pay a small fee to become a member of a group like the NRA to have their voices heard in government. At least they aren't out rioting and looting.

Why would they be rioting and looting? 

I know we've got plenty of differences but I don't begrudge your personal choice, you seem a pretty decent person, firey sure but that's not a bad thing, and I'm sure your reasons are good ones. Gun culture is part of your heritage, I get that and it's unreasonable to expect any one person to act or think differently to the majority. I just hope for the sake of the casualty count that America as a whole has some sort of epiphany that makes that go away. When you live in a country where regulation was such a huge success its hard to see why its so vehemently opposed and the regularity of the shootings sends passions on fire. 

I wish you well. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

What? You don’t want to be surrounded by murderous wildlife (AND FLORA!) governed by a pack of idiots who can’t cover up them giving one of their owns girlfriend a cushy job?

for shame And Then, for shame.

Don't forget the heat. We've outdone the Sahara desert before. 

[ExpandMyMind]

12 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

More kids have killed more kids since after the 70`s.Gun control will not stop the kids from killing, they still can find guns, or weapons. Its a mental problem not a gun problem. Trump`s right its more of a mental problem and a pole 67% people agreed.

This might not be said, but my guess  its a abortion mentality. Kids feel people has the right to kill babies. Government should ban the laws of abortion. And  the Ten Commandments should be back into the courts, and schools of do not kill for no reason,  telling  kids they`ll go to burning hell forever.

   So guys what is the reason for all this has been happening since after the 70`s when abortion started to be legal,  so tell me of another reason.  I am a women and know women are going real mad for all my suggestions.

Essential reading for you.

[Setton]

7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Even if there were no guns. Diy weapons are pretty easy to construct. Such as explosives, molotovs, even a flamethrower can be constructed. One pipe bomb tossed into a crowd can take many lives. A dirty bomb can contaminate large areas. Ill motivated gun violence is bad, but I can think of worse weapons. Its people. Plain and simple. 

 

6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

The common link is the desire to kill the weak.  It doesn't have to be guns and if it's not a gun, it will be something else 

Simple question for both of you then:

Why don't people use these other weapons in countries where guns are controlled? 

[Rlyeh]

12 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Because our country was good on religious laws.,especially  the Ten Commandants  that our laws are based on.  

The Theocratic States of America?

[aztek]

13 hours ago, Gromdor said:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/China/United-States/Crime

Seems like China is better all the way around in the stats.  Maybe they are saner?

Judging by Chinese immigrants i see around they are not only a lot saner, but smarter, hard working, and a lot less lazy. at least 1st generation. 

[aztek]

but yea, i agree gun control is important, use both hands and aim.

[LV-426]

6 hours ago, Michelle said:

You haven't been on UM when it's been hashed and rehashed over and over again. In the end we in the US are at a stalemate about gun control...just as it is here.

I've come to the same conclusion in the last few years on UM, which is why I rarely get involved in the discussions these days.

I've read some reasonable arguments for gun ownership in that time; hunting, home defence, the difficulty in controlling guns when there's something in the region of double the amount of guns to citizens in the US.

I've also read some arguments bordering on lunacy, such as arming more children in schools, the notion that a scalpel can inflict more damage than an automatic/semiautomatic assault rifle, and my personal favourite... that other democratic countries are somehow living in slavery as citizens aren't armed...

I don't see any quick or easy solutions for the US. I just hope you guys find a way to better protect your kids. There's nothing so tragic as the loss of a young life that doesn't get the chance to experience the joy of discovering things for the first time... friendships, relationships, love... utterly, utterly tragic

[docyabut2]

Gun control is not going to work.Mental illness in children should  be found out, why they want to kill a lot of kids.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Gun control works in small areas like really small but it won' work where it' not policed properly, you're not going to have your gun checked every month if you live in the country. Alot of mass shooting suspects go on the internet and try and plan.

[aztek]

Just now, Mr.United_Nations said:

Gun control works in small areas like really small but it won' work where it' not policed properly, you're not going to have your gun checked every month if you live in the country. Alot of mass shooting suspects go on the internet and try and plan.

you are not gonna have your gun checked ever if no one knows you have one, just like it is the case with millions of gang members and felons who have them illegally

[aztek]

Just now, Hankenhunter said:

What does the NRA have to do with the second amendment. Were they on hand when it was created? No, but they sure have a hand in gun policy now.

and i'm happy they are.

[Dark_Grey]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

Judging by Chinese immigrants i see around they are not only a lot saner, but smarter, hard working, and a lot less lazy. at least 1st generation. 

Chinese also have much stronger families. A lot of two parents households compared to the US, where "single, hard working mom who don't need no man" is a celebrated TV show premise. Just saying.

But to really compare crime stats, you'd also have to look at the difference in sentencing/penalties and how the stats are collected to begin with. It's a can of worms.