Gun Control ?

[Kismit]

54 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Good question. I know female CEO's tend to have higher Test as Test is associated with aggression, dominance, etc. This may even be due to environmental factors like fighting to the top of a company dominated by men, essentially provoking the female body to produce more Test to "survive".

There is a weird causation/correlation that needs to be taken in to account. Almost all studies (there aren't many,) looking at the relation between biology and political affiliation used a physical metric instead of just straight testosterone measurements. Aarhus University in Denmark seems to be the most referenced study:

Physical strength virtually always means higher Test. (Test is necessary for muscle growth). U of Toronto also did a study linking personality types and political affiliation. Personality is influenced by hormones so another "read between the lines" correlation can be drawn there.

Here is an interesting article from ScientificAmerican that tracked Test levels retroactively after an election and found a drop in voters who's candidate lost. 

I am happy you are open to new ideas 

As you can see, it's a mixed bag. There needs to be a big, fat study measuring actual Test levels across a broad spectrum of people as our individual makeup varies so wildly. But generally speaking, the studies on personality type and voting preference seem to be pushing toward the idea that higher T = more Conservative views. Of course, this in no way implies there is anything wrong with being Liberal minded. As Mr. Peterson himself states, 

 

**I didn't realize the Science Daily article quoted Jordan Peterson until after the fact...

Still none of the links are to studies that sugest liberals lack testosterone or even have more upper body strength.

Edit: I found the study which may have been the original claim that conservatives have more upper body strength Here is the Abstract from that study. 

It appears that Men who live in wealthy environments with more upper body strength tend to prefer a self interested monetary system and Men who live in lower economic regions with strong upper body strength prefer a system of economic distribution. (Socialist?)

There appears to be no as yet proven, correlation between upper body strength, testosterone, estrogen, masculinity or femininity and political ideaology.

Again I am happy to be wrong if you could provide a link that proves me wrong.

And Re The scientific American study. I am fairly sure the testosterone levels of all men, Liberal, Conservative and Socialist alike, increase during competition and decrease afterwards. 

Also none of these things relate to the topic of gun control.

[Paranormal Panther]

48 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Still none of the links are to studies that sugest liberals lack testosterone or even have more upper body strength.

Edit: I found the study which may have been the original claim that conservatives have more upper body strength Here is the Abstract from that study. 

It appears that Men who live in wealthy environments with more upper body strength tend to prefer a self interested monetary system and Men who live in lower economic regions with strong upper body strength prefer a system of economic distribution. (Socialist?)

There appears to be no as yet proven, correlation between upper body strength, testosterone, estrogen, masculinity or femininity and political ideaology.

Again I am happy to be wrong if you could provide a link that proves me wrong.

And Re The scientific American study. I am fairly sure the testosterone levels of all men, Liberal, Conservative and Socialist alike, increase during competition and decrease afterwards. 

Also none of these things relate to the topic of gun control.

I do know that Millennial men have lower testosterone levels and weaker hand grips than men in other generations. I posted the studies on this forum. There's less dimorphism between the genders too, which means that the Millennial genders are closer to each other in strength than other generations. I doubt that it's down to politics, though.

[Kismit]

36 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I do know that Millennial men have lower testosterone levels and weaker hand grips than men in other generations. I posted the studies on this forum. There's less dimorphism between the genders too, which means that the Millennial genders are closer to each other in strength than other generations. I doubt that it's down to politics, though.

Found that study. You are right it doesn't have anything to do with politics, looks more like technology driven evolution.

I also found several stories writen using the study as a way to claim millenials are over all weaker. Perhaps if the same control group are tested in 10-15 &20 years time the results would be diferent again.

Also nothing to do with the topic or politics or even conclusive evidence that millenials are, "less than".

[Paranormal Panther]

21 hours ago, Kismit said:

Found that study. You are right it doesn't have anything to do with politics, looks more like technology driven evolution.

I also found several stories writen using the study as a way to claim millenials are over all weaker. Perhaps if the same control group are tested in 10-15 &20 years time the results would be diferent again.

Also nothing to do with the topic or politics or even conclusive evidence that millenials are, "less than".

You and Likely Guy should know that the study compared past results to present results, and the study confirmed that Millennials have lower testosterone levels and weaker hand grips than other men of the same age in the past. I don't get your point about the control group, because people weaken with age, so it's common sense that their scores would be lower. There's no "less than" about it as I'm just stating facts. There's no "less than" when you tell the truth that men tend to be taller than women in each country in the world, so come on now with the PC stuff. 

[Kismit]

7 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

You and Likely Guy should know that the study compared past results to present results, and the study confirmed that Millennials have lower testosterone levels and weaker hand grips than other men of the same age in the past. I don't get your point about the control group, because people weaken with age, so it's common sense that their scores would be lower. There's no "less than" about it as I'm just stating facts. There's no "less than" when you tell the truth that men tend to be taller than women in each country in the world, so come on now with the PC stuff. 

It looks like you did get my point. Age plays a roll. Our current geoup of baby boomers may also have less strength testosterone and grip than thier predesecors. After all we all are apparently fatter. 

It's the change in societal evolution and the study hasn't covered enough of societal change over time to compare. 

It also has nothing to do with guns or political idealogy.

Millenials are fighting the demons they see, thier way. Inequality and safety being the big ones. 

Babyboomers fought thier demons thier way. Thier demons for many was the cross over point. The generation before them had been poor, rigid, hardworking, and large. Massive changes took place throughout thier lives that shaped the world we live in today. No generation that I can think of throughout history has experienced the societal changes the babyboomers have. Just look at the T.V programs. Mr Rogers versus Breaking Bad.

It's easy to see how an older generation may view the past as better. But was it? We hid our issues behind closed doors, as a society we thought it was unclean to have people we viewed as foriegn people around us. The boss, teacher, law enforcer, scout leader and minister where viewed as untouchable pillars of the community.

 Society has come a very long way for the good of the magority, and we should be gratefull that the study shows the fights this generation has to undertake are a step up from basic survival. 

The millenials are our future like it or not. They will fight the next lot of battles for the human race as a species like it or not. *The world is in thier hands.

I could do an entire thread on the current political state of the world and how it appears to have been driven by the last dying breaths of the large birthrates of the 40's and 50's but it is not on topic, just like this , and within the next two political cycles a total turn over of power will start to take place anyway.

* I can see the joke to be made here 

[Kismit]

On topic though.

NRA sues Florida over gun law change.

It looks like Florida is trying to change the age of legal gun purchase to 21.

However the NRA are legally fighting against it. Claiming it infringes on the second ammendment rights of 18-21 year olds.

My take on it. bollucks, they didn't bother to fight for the second amendment rights for under 18 year olds. There is no age specification in the constitution as far as I am aware.

If a judge where to allow this ruling to go in favour of the NRA it would open up a legally valid pathway for teenagers and even younger to purchase guns.

 

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, Kismit said:

On topic though.

NRA sues Florida over gun law change.

It looks like Florida is trying to change the age of legal gun purchase to 21.

However the NRA are legally fighting against it. Claiming it infringes on the second ammendment rights of 18-21 year olds.

My take on it. bollucks, they didn't bother to fight for the second amendment rights for under 18 year olds. There is no age specification in the constitution as far as I am aware.

If a judge where to allow this ruling to go in favour of the NRA it would open up a legally valid pathway for teenagers and even younger to purchase guns.

 

Not really, as 18 is the age where you legally become an adult.

 

• Vote
• Sue or be sued
• Open a bank account in your own name
• Perform professionally abroad
• Serve on a jury
• Get a tattoo
• Buy cigarettes and tobacco
• Leave home
• Marry or register a civil partnership
• Make a Will
• Stand for election as a member of parliament
• Carry an organ donor card
• You cannot be made a ward of the court
• Own land, buy a house or flat & apply for a mortgage
• If you are adopted, you can apply to see a copy of your original birth certificate

Rights

1. The 26th amendment to the Constitution, enacted on July 1, 1971, established the legal voting age for Americans as 18, www.truethevote.org/resources/faq/…/legal-age-for-voting. You can vote in all national and local elections once you are registered to vote.

2. You can work full time. If you work for a company that has heavy equipment or provides transportation services that requires special driving permits; you can now train for and acquire a special driving license.

3. You can purchase and use tobacco products in 46 of the 50 states and in the District of Columbia. Alabama, Alaska, New Jersey and Utah require someone to be 19 years of age to purchase tobacco, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_Age.

4. The federal government has established 18 as the age of consent to legally engage in sexual activities with another person aged 18 or older. The age of consent may be younger or older according to you state’s law, http://www.age-of-consent.info/.

5. You can establish a checking and savings account and apply for loans. Having a job may be a requirement for loan approvals.

6. You can get credit cards and establish your credit worthiness by paying your bills on time.

7. You can get married without parental approval in 48 of the 50 states. Mississippi requires you to be 21 and Nebraska requires you to be 19 before you can get married without parental consent.

Responsibilities

1. If you are a male, you are required to register with the Selective Service System within 30 days of turning 18. According to the law, www.sss.gov/default.htm, you can be prosecuted if you do not register. If convicted, you can fined up to $250,000 and/or spend up to 5 years in jail.

2. As a legal adult, you are now responsible for your actions. If you violate any law, you will be charged as an adult.

3. You can be selected for jury duty.

4. You are legally obligated to pay all debts you incur.

 

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Not really, as 18 is the age where you legally become an adult.

 

• Vote
• Sue or be sued
• Open a bank account in your own name
• Perform professionally abroad
• Serve on a jury
• Get a tattoo
• Buy cigarettes and tobacco
• Leave home
• Marry or register a civil partnership
• Make a Will
• Stand for election as a member of parliament
• Carry an organ donor card
• You cannot be made a ward of the court
• Own land, buy a house or flat & apply for a mortgage
• If you are adopted, you can apply to see a copy of your original birth certificate

Rights

1. The 26th amendment to the Constitution, enacted on July 1, 1971, established the legal voting age for Americans as 18, www.truethevote.org/resources/faq/…/legal-age-for-voting. You can vote in all national and local elections once you are registered to vote.

2. You can work full time. If you work for a company that has heavy equipment or provides transportation services that requires special driving permits; you can now train for and acquire a special driving license.

3. You can purchase and use tobacco products in 46 of the 50 states and in the District of Columbia. Alabama, Alaska, New Jersey and Utah require someone to be 19 years of age to purchase tobacco, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_Age.

4. The federal government has established 18 as the age of consent to legally engage in sexual activities with another person aged 18 or older. The age of consent may be younger or older according to you state’s law, http://www.age-of-consent.info/.

5. You can establish a checking and savings account and apply for loans. Having a job may be a requirement for loan approvals.

6. You can get credit cards and establish your credit worthiness by paying your bills on time.

7. You can get married without parental approval in 48 of the 50 states. Mississippi requires you to be 21 and Nebraska requires you to be 19 before you can get married without parental consent.

Responsibilities

1. If you are a male, you are required to register with the Selective Service System within 30 days of turning 18. According to the law, www.sss.gov/default.htm, you can be prosecuted if you do not register. If convicted, you can fined up to $250,000 and/or spend up to 5 years in jail.

2. As a legal adult, you are now responsible for your actions. If you violate any law, you will be charged as an adult.

3. You can be selected for jury duty.

4. You are legally obligated to pay all debts you incur.

 

What about alcohol purchases and gambling?

Just a note, according to your well researched post, legal age for tobbacco sales in Florida is 19. 

Shouldn't a standard set age for adulthood, based on research, be agreed on before the NRA is given the right to decide.

What if it where the alcohol and drug lobby groups fighting to change the age limit or the tobbacco industry. Or indeed the Casino industry?

A standard set age for responsibilty and rights is set, based on research  for mental ability,  in countries like New Zealand and Australia.

That bank account thing seems more restrictive to me. I don't think there is a limit to the age you have to be to open a bank account in either Australia or New Zealand. Legal working age is 14. I was 12 when I first started work and needed an account.

[RavenHawk]

42 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Shouldn't a standard set age for adulthood, based on research, be agreed on before the NRA is given the right to decide.

The NRA doesn’t make decisions.  They lobby and they are one of the few that actually lobby for the people.

 

I would say that if you are old enough to go to war, you are old enough to be an adult.  Although, Obamacare says 26.  But even with a set age, there will always be those that are more mature at 16 and will request emancipation.  I think if you are on your parent’s insurance at 26, then you are not old enough to be an adult.

[Aquila King]

29 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I think if you are on your parent’s insurance at 26, then you are not old enough to be an adult.

I wonder if you've even considered the possibility that some might be on their parents insurance because they're unable to afford their own insurance despite working full time, fully independent, with a family of their own...

I doubt you have though. Or that you really care. Conservatives just love to blame poor people for being poor.

[Aquila King]

[+DieChecker]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:29 PM, Paranormal Panther said:

I do know that Millennial men have lower testosterone levels and weaker hand grips than men in other generations. I posted the studies on this forum. There's less dimorphism between the genders too, which means that the Millennial genders are closer to each other in strength than other generations. I doubt that it's down to politics, though.

That is probably just due to a lot less jobs being physically taxing. You don't have to be strong if you live in a city of 3 to 5 million, and the heaviest things you lift are packages of stuff you ordered on Amazon.

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I wonder if you've even considered the possibility that some might be on their parents insurance because they're unable to afford their own insurance despite working full time, fully independent, with a family of their own...

I doubt you have though. Or that you really care. Conservatives just love to blame poor people for being poor.

It is true that Insurance is way too expensive. Something needs to be done. I believe I read it goes up like 10% every year, though people's cost of living raises are 1% to 3%. 

I'd vote for universal healthcare, if I believed we could run it effectively, or that it wouldn't simply be used to fill the coffers of the Treasury, or squandered.

Did you see the 2016 election? A lot of conservatives ARE Poor. Except they know what being a conservative means, and don't get their definition from Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, or Stephen Colbert. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, DieChecker said:

Did you see the 2016 election? A lot of conservatives ARE Poor. Except they know what being a conservative means, and don't get their definition from Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, or Stephen Colbert. 

The fact that the GOP continually gets a large percentage of Americans to vote against their own self interests is truly amazing. 

[+DieChecker]

On 3/19/2018 at 6:00 PM, Aquila King said:

What good would it do to fire everyone if you don't first address the issue of money in politics? That's the real corruption in the American political system. You want to blame politicians and unions or whatever else, but the fact of the matter is that it's perfectly legal here for millionaires and billionaires and big corporations to pay huge sums of money to politician's political campaigns for political favors. If you had a complete overhaul in the government, you'd have to make absolutely sure that those we replace the corrupt politicians with will actually represent the everyday American worker, not bend to the will of multi-billion dollar corporations who only care about personal profit.

Good point. Money "...Is the root of all evil.", after all. I agree that if the lobbiests with endless money are there, then they will continue to buy people, even after all the people are replaced.

However I was referring to all the FedGov workers who are working 9 to 5. They are protected, and are not elected, and are far too many to be bought off. Replacing them would be for the good, I think.

Quote

What millennials are doing is utilizing the internet that unlike previous generations, they grew up with. They know how to fact check and use basic research techniques. Not just parrot whatever BS comes from Fox News (or any mainstream news source, though Fox is the worst of the worst) or any other source without checking their facts.

And yet I see millennial after millennial do just that, except from other sources... And then call it common sense... Because THEY think it is common sense.

You seem to be saying that millennials are fact checkers, but that isn't true. If it was, we wouldn't have hundreds of "fact checkers" out there (most with political biases) doing so for us.

Quote

Millennials actually grew up with the internet, where they can actually research how other countries work and compare it to our own. And the truth is, every other modern nation on the planet guarantees some form of single-payer universal healthcare, free public college and universities, a minimum wage that acts as a living wage, etc. Therefore when Bernie Sanders comes out saying that we could have what literally every other modern nation has had for decades now, but we don't have it because of the above corruption as stated above, we know exactly what needs to be done.

This is all true. However what do we do to get there? No one knows. The existing system is entrenched. We'd literally have to rip up the entire heathcare and education systems and reestablish them in some meaningful way that would allow things to run much more cheaply and yet more effectively. I've yet to see any plan that even comes close to doing so. Even Obamacare (or the ACA if you will) was not what it was said to be. Insurance providers fled the Silver/Bronze/Gold/Platinum markets in droves. The FedGov money that was provided was simply not enough for the corporate interests. So, then we need to remove the corporations too?? And what are we left with? Who knows, but it surely wouldn't be the America that anyone over 35 remembers.

Quote

We grew up in the age of Reaganomics, and the Iraq war, and the stock market crash of 08 due to the deregulation of Wall Street. We've seen and experienced the mistakes of the generation before us, and are reaping the damage of what you've sowed. We're statistically the most highly educated generation to date, and we know damn well what we're bloody talking about.

The stock crash of '08 was due to Housing Regulation (Which the Democrats forced to happen), not deregulation of Wall Street (unless you mean <toxic> mortgage futures). 

This is your opinion. I've talked to enough millennials to know that they aren't some genius generation. Hell, most of them don't have a dime saved, and couldn't figure out how to buy a house if they had someone signing the documents for them.

40%+ of millennials voted for Trump, so are you speaking for all millennials, or just the 60% who voted for Clinton?

Quote

So go on. Keep s**ting on millennials to your hearts content. It only makes you look like the stereotypical old geezer from any generation that just fantasizes of the 'good old days' while complaining about the next generation 'going to hell in a hand basket.' It's happened for centuries, if not millennia, and they've all been wrong before. You're no different.

True, but look around you... Trump in office. The internet stealing our identity. The media highlighting horror after horror. 

Is this better then when you were a kid, or worse? You simply wish you lived in Sweden, rather then the USA. That doesn't mean the USA needs to turn into Sweden. It does mean that if it becomes the majority view, that the nation should head that way. But, that also doesn't make the opinions of those who lived longer, and are more experienced, less valuable.

On 3/19/2018 at 7:09 PM, Aquila King said:

This is how research works. You look at the actual source of the material, and then try and find out exactly what (if any) biases and/or motivations there are. With Forbes, their job is primarily to promote strong capitalist ideals, which promotes businesses. Therefore since it is a magazine designed around big business, they have a clear motivation to promote conservative ideologies.

Not to mention, the founder of the magazine itself was twice a Republican candidate for president: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Forbes

Now as for the article itself, it literally only cited two sources, neither of which linked to the actual studies of which they supposedly got this information. So we literally have no clue where they got the statistics they did.

This is fine, as long as you are willing to live up to the same standard. I see too many young liberals who post site after site and have no idea what they hell they are talking about.

On 3/20/2018 at 11:54 AM, Aquila King said:

Several studies have shown that the top ten happiest nations in the world are Social Democracies:

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Iceland
4. Norway
5. Finland
6. Canada
7. Netherlands
8. New Zealand
9. Australia
10. Sweden

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-world-happiness-index-2016-just-ranked-the-happiest-countries-on-earth

 

And here we are in a gun thread.

• Denmark - Easy to own a gun. Get trained and get a license. About an eight per capita of US levels. Gun deaths are about an eighth US per capita levels.
• Switzerland - Gun ownership per capita at about a quarter US levels. Gun deaths at about a third US per capita level. 
• Iceland - Gun ownership per capita at about third US levels. Almost zero homicides.
• Norway - Gun ownership at about a third US levels. Almost an eighth US per capita levels.

So..... What is obvious is that Happy Nations are not necessarily Gun Free nations.

Looking at Iceland, and Norway, I see it is possible to have relatively high gun ownership, and yet still have low homicide rates and a happy nation. 

Look at all those nations on that list..  What do you notice? Populations with low ethnic diversity.  The lowest ethnic diversity in Europe. So, does lack of diversity mean happier? Depends on who is doing the Spinning, now doesn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Denmark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level

Quote

I've posted the links a million billion times on here as to why the US is the one and only country on Earth with such lax gun laws, and why those non-existent gun laws lead to our singularly unique problem of mass shootings.

Oh? The only country with lax gun laws? The ONLY ONE? You mean the only "enlightened Western" nation perhaps? 

Non existent gun laws? Seriously? There isn't much difference between Norway or the USA, then requiring training and a license. 

Quote

To illustrate my point, let's use an extreme example we should all agree on. Let's say there's some cheesy cookie-cutter style super villain who wants to destroy the entire world. Rather than knowing that what he's doing is evil, he views destroying all life on earth as actually a good thing. He states that: "Life is full of pain and misery, and it's best for all beings to just completely disappear. Killing all life is therefore the righteous and just thing to do to end all suffering." Now obviously, the dude is a mad man. You and I can't for the life of us understand this guy's insane point of view. We can rationally debunk this nonsense rather easily. We can fully understand the dude's faulty logic, and thereby fully understand his position. We know what he wants to do, why he wants to do it, and what exactly lead him to do it. However regardless, we still fully disagree with him, because we both recognize the Ludacris nature of his position. Ultimately, neither of us could ever truly understand his point of view, because we fully recognize it for what it is: utter nonsense.

Actually, I understand that super villain. Eugenics was very popular 100 years ago. And the world really could use half, or three quarters of the world population being Raptured right now. The fact is Global Warming is a perfectly good reason for there to be less people on Earth by itself. 

The new Marvel Avengers Movie has this exact villain... Thanos. He wants to kill half the universe, because he believes they need killing.

Quote

Protesting is not the equivalent of starting a fight. We have numerous videos of Trump supporters attacking protesters who are currently being walked out of the stadiums and not attacking anyone, and we even have Trump encouraging his supporters to commit violence against them.

What I remember is that those fights happened at Trump rallies and Clinton supporters showed up and rioted. It was Clinton supporters who threw the first punches.

On 3/20/2018 at 1:56 PM, Aquila King said:

I find a number of the things you've said here utterly contemptible. In fact, words simply cannot adequately express how disgusting I find some of these things. All I can do here is appeal to your mind. I cannot appeal to your heart. Words are rarely ever capable of reaching someone who lacks any care or empathy for others in many of these situations. There's nothing I can do or say to make you give a damn, or to truly feel the gravity of these abhorrent positions you claim to hold. In these particular cases, my objections are moral objections, not mere political 'disagreements.'

This is semantics. Anyone can argue anything, generally, when they are just exchanging opinions. Every single person has their own "Common Sense".  You can accuse people of being cold, unfeeling and unemotional, but the person you are accusing may be a warm loving husband or father, and yet have a strict view of the law. That isn't a lack of empathy, it is respect for Authority and the Law.

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

The fact that the GOP continually gets a large percentage of Americans to vote against their own self interests is truly amazing. 

Why? Minorities continually vote Democrat, despite poverty rates, low education rates, violence rates... unchanging over almost a Century. Why do they continue to vote for people who have done nothing (effectively) to lift them up? Democrats talk a good show, and have put a superb window on the store, but inside it is still the same factory that the Republicans are running across the street.

Edited March 22, 2018 by DieChecker

[Farmer77]

Just now, DieChecker said:

Why? Minorities continually vote Democrat, despite poverty rates, low education rates, violence rates... unchanging over almost a Century. Why do they continue to vote for people who have done nothing (effectively) to lift them up? They put a superb window on the store, but inside it is still the same factory that the Republicans are running across the street.

I agree wholeheartedly with minorities and their allegiance to democrats. The problem is the two party system. 

I do admit that its easier to understand minorities voting democrat when in recent history (30 some years anyways) the GOP has been the party of choice for racists. (no that's not calling all republicans racist)

Your point still stands however. 

[Kismit]

20 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Good point. Money "...Is the root of all evil.", after all. I agree that if the lobbiests with endless money are there, then they will continue to buy people, even after all the people are replaced.

However I was referring to all the FedGov workers who are working 9 to 5. They are protected, and are not elected, and are far too many to be bought off. Replacing them would be for the good, I think.

And yet I see millennial after millennial do just that, except from other sources... And then call it common sense... Because THEY think it is common sense.

You seem to be saying that millennials are fact checkers, but that isn't true. If it was, we wouldn't have hundreds of "fact checkers" out there (most with political biases) doing so for us.

This is all true. However what do we do to get there? No one knows. The existing system is entrenched. We'd literally have to rip up the entire heathcare and education systems and reestablish them in some meaningful way that would allow things to run much more cheaply and yet more effectively. I've yet to see any plan that even comes close to doing so. Even Obamacare (or the ACA if you will) was not what it was said to be. Insurance providers fled the Silver/Bronze/Gold/Platinum markets in droves. The FedGov money that was provided was simply not enough for the corporate interests. So, then we need to remove the corporations too?? And what are we left with? Who knows, but it surely wouldn't be the America that anyone over 35 remembers.

The stock crash of '08 was due to Housing Regulation (Which the Democrats forced to happen), not deregulation of Wall Street (unless you mean <toxic> mortgage futures). 

This is your opinion. I've talked to enough millennials to know that they aren't some genius generation. Hell, most of them don't have a dime saved, and couldn't figure out how to buy a house if they had someone signing the documents for them.

40%+ of millennials voted for Trump, so are you speaking for all millennials, or just the 60% who voted for Clinton?

True, but look around you... Trump in office. The internet stealing our identity. The media highlighting horror after horror. 

Is this better then when you were a kid, or worse? You simply wish you lived in Sweden, rather then the USA. That doesn't mean the USA needs to turn into Sweden. It does mean that if it becomes the majority view, that the nation should head that way. But, that also doesn't make the opinions of those who lived longer, and are more experienced, less valuable.

This is fine, as long as you are willing to live up to the same standard. I see too many young liberals who post site after site and have no idea what they hell they are talking about.

And here we are in a gun thread.

• Denmark - Easy to own a gun. Get trained and get a license. About an eight per capita of US levels. Gun deaths are about an eighth US per capita levels.
• Switzerland - Gun ownership per capita at about a quarter US levels. Gun deaths at about a third US per capita level. 
• Iceland - Gun ownership per capita at about third US levels. Almost zero homicides.
• Norway - Gun ownership at about a third US levels. Almost an eighth US per capita levels.

So..... What is obvious is that Happy Nations are not necessarily Gun Free nations.

Looking at Iceland, and Norway, I see it is possible to have relatively high gun ownership, and yet still have low homicide rates and a happy nation. 

Look at all those nations on that list..  What do you notice? Populations with low ethnic diversity.  The lowest ethnic diversity in Europe. So, does lack of diversity mean happier? Depends on who is doing the Spinning, now doesn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Denmark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level

Oh? The only country with lax gun laws? The ONLY ONE? You mean the only "enlightened Western" nation perhaps? 

Non existent gun laws? Seriously? There isn't much difference between Norway or the USA, then requiring training and a license. 

Actually, I understand that super villain. Eugenics was very popular 100 years ago. And the world really could use half, or three quarters of the world population being Raptured right now. The fact is Global Warming is a perfectly good reason for there to be less people on Earth by itself. 

The new Marvel Avengers Movie has this exact villain... Thanos. He wants to kill half the universe, because he believes they need killing.

What I remember is that those fights happened at Trump rallies and Clinton supporters showed up and rioted. It was Clinton supporters who threw the first punches.

This is semantics. Anyone can argue anything, generally, when they are just exchanging opinions. Every single person has their own "Common Sense".  You can accuse people of being cold, unfeeling and unemotional, but the person you are accusing may be a warm loving husband or father, and yet have a strict view of the law. That isn't a lack of empathy, it is respect for Authority and the Law.

Re bolded: that does not appear to be tje case as Australia and New Zealand are incredibly ethnically diverse with them being quite young modern nations. Infact New Zealand was actually 7th happiest last year. The company I work for won an award during a seventh happiest campaign.

[+DieChecker]

27 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Re bolded: that does not appear to be tje case as Australia and New Zealand are incredibly ethnically diverse with them being quite young modern nations. Infact New Zealand was actually 7th happiest last year. The company I work for won an award during a seventh happiest campaign.

Actually Australia is 140 out of 153 in ethnic diversity. It is NOT diverse by world standards. It is less diverse then Sweden or Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level

Pointing out the exceptions to the rule doesn't mean make the rule any less real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Australia#Ancestry_of_Australian_population

The only real large minority groups that Australia appears to have is Chinese at about 6% and Indian at about 3%.

Edited March 22, 2018 by DieChecker

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Kismit said:

Re bolded: that does not appear to be tje case as Australia and New Zealand are incredibly ethnically diverse with them being quite young modern nations. Infact New Zealand was actually 7th happiest last year. The company I work for won an award during a seventh happiest campaign.

They campaign for this award?

[Myles]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Look at all those nations on that list..  What do you notice? Populations with low ethnic diversity.  The lowest ethnic diversity in Europe. So, does lack of diversity mean happier?

 

I think we can see a clear connection with diversity and happiness.   Sad, in a way, but understandable.  

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

They campaign for this award?

No. We actually got third place without even trying. We had no idea we where entered, we just genuinely like to look after the people who come into our community. 

Honestly we would be nothing without the people who spend thier money with us, if they need our service we are here to help.

Hospitality is often run by people who genuinly care.

[+DieChecker]

9 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think we can see a clear connection with diversity and happiness.   Sad, in a way, but understandable.  

I think it is the more "integrated", or "assimilated", the population is, the happier they will be. When you have entire ethnic groups who are revolting against the mainstream, there will be less happiness.

[Aquila King]

9 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

The fact that the GOP continually gets a large percentage of Americans to vote against their own self interests is truly amazing. 

It would be a fascinating case study for psychologists if not for the fact that even the results of that would most likely be politicized...

[Aquila King]

8 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Actually, I understand that super villain. Eugenics was very popular 100 years ago. And the world really could use half, or three quarters of the world population being Raptured right now. The fact is Global Warming is a perfectly good reason for there to be less people on Earth by itself. 

The new Marvel Avengers Movie has this exact villain... Thanos. He wants to kill half the universe, because he believes they need killing.

I'm getting rather tired of my recent trend of long-winded responses that involve dissecting every single point from someone's post. So I'll just focus on the one thing that alarmingly stood out the most.

I can somewhat understand the argument that overpopulation is a problem. However what you're suggesting here is downright scary. Of course Eugenics was popular a hundred years ago. So were Jim Crow laws, and a myriad of other abhorrent things that we can for the most part look back on with disdain. I mean, it sounds as if you're literally flirting with the idea of outright Nazism here. Overpopulation is undoubtedly a problem that needs addressing, however I don't believe in any way that Eugenics is really the desired solution, nor is it the only solution.

Anyway, with that I think I'm done with this thread. I keep getting off-topic anyway, and I've already made my point in regards to the topic many times over. No need to repeat myself essentially...