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docyabut2

Gun Control ?

1,490 posts in this topic

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Captain Risky
13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

How does the group feel about banning racists from owning guns? The last two major shootings have been perpetrated by people who openly declared their racist beliefs, should we remove the ability to buy guns from those who openly proclaim their hate for another race? 

as long as they're doing the right thing i'd hate to think that one's views should be a restriction on rights enjoyed by all. 

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psyche101
35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

So, what you describe won the war in Syria a long time ago? No, the situation in Syria and Iraq, with ISIS is such that a couple tens of thousands of uneducated, untrained fanatics held off the world powers for years and years. And you suggest that a bombing raid will stop insurrectionists flat? Why didn't Hitler win in Russia? He had vastly better machines and troops? Look at the US v Vietnam war. Look at the Taliban war in Afghanistan. Look at any number of wars where the enemy can hide among the civilians. It is not an easy war. 

But your not in another land fighting natives in their own jungles or Cave systems. 

Your in the US. And you've got this invincible pride attitude with guns. I honestly think it would be more like the Bundy occupation in Oregon than one of those wars. Not to mention drones have been very effective in the middle East with targets being taken out from a comfy armchairs in an air conditioned office. 

35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Or, are you suggesting that the US military just carpet bomb rebelling regions? Kill fifty non combatants for every rebel killed? 

Now who is not being realistic??

What's realistic about a tyrannical government? and if it came that far sure, why not? Your talking about a war with your own government. Either the government are that corrupt that not much would be beyond them, and leaders in history have indeed sacrificed their own even for just an advantage, or they would be taking out control centers and you know if it came to that there's not much in the way of communications they don't have the ability to monitor to take out key targets, or they could see the entire country as a threat and react in a large scale hurting the people to a point of surrender. 

It doesn't seem far fetched at all to me considering the scans rip to begin with. And how likely is that anyway? 

35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, if the assumption is that a hundred, or even a thousand, people turned against the US FedGov, the end result would not be in doubt. But, that isn't what is being discussed here. This is about a revolution against a dictatorial US government that has failed to respond to the will of the people, and a huge percentage of the population decides to fight back. At that point, the FedGov has already lost. Without guns they'd be much less powerful and be much easier to ignore.

I think guns give them the best excuse to use deadly force and cover up as much collateral damage as need be. 

They were coming right for us!! And they had weapons!! We had to act quickly for the greater good or many more would have perished! 

But if you didn't have guns, it'd just be considered a massacre and and violation of human rights, then they would have to deal with the rest of the world. They would not be long in power then. 

its-coming-right-for-us-.jpg

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DieChecker
21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

But your not in another land fighting natives in their own jungles or Cave systems. 

Your in the US. And you've got this invincible pride attitude with guns. I honestly think it would be more like the Bundy occupation in Oregon than one of those wars. Not to mention drones have been very effective in the middle East with targets being taken out from a comfy armchairs in an air conditioned office. 

How does that matter? Whether it is people living in a cave in the Afghan wilderness, or a rural land owner in the USA. Both would be protecting their way of life using rifles. Is the assumption that an American can't defend himself as well as a Afghan tribesman? 

Did you see the end result of that Bundy thing? All of them got off. Only the one guy that got killed being taken into custody, and those few who pled guilty to minor charges.

Quote

What's realistic about a tyrannical government? and if it came that far sure, why not? Your talking about a war with your own government. Either the government are that corrupt that not much would be beyond them, and leaders in history have indeed sacrificed their own even for just an advantage, or they would be taking out control centers and you know if it came to that there's not much in the way of communications they don't have the ability to monitor to take out key targets, or they could see the entire country as a threat and react in a large scale hurting the people to a point of surrender. 

It doesn't seem far fetched at all to me considering the scans rip to begin with. And how likely is that anyway? 

Who knows? The point is that we have the right to own weapons to prevent just such a thing from happening. The same idea as MAD. That the people have guns prevents anyone from attempting to grab absolute control.

Perhaps it is a Tiger Talisman, but perhaps not. (A Tiger Talisman is a protection against Tigers... You know it is working because you don't see any tigers around, do you?)

Quote

I think guns give them the best excuse to use deadly force and cover up as much collateral damage as need be. 

They were coming right for us!! And they had weapons!! We had to act quickly for the greater good or many more would have perished! 

But if you didn't have guns, it'd just be considered a massacre and and violation of human rights, then they would have to deal with the rest of the world. They would not be long in power then. 

I agree that if there were no guns, deaths would be lower. That is a plain fact. However, before I support banning guns, I want to see an effective plan on how to get those guns away from the criminals, and ensure they don't get guns in the future.... Which basically is not going to happen in the continental USA.

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preacherman76
27 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

How does that matter? Whether it is people living in a cave in the Afghan wilderness, or a rural land owner in the USA. Both would be protecting their way of life using rifles. Is the assumption that an American can't defend himself as well as a Afghan tribesman? 

Did you see the end result of that Bundy thing? All of them got off. Only the one guy that got killed being taken into custody, and those few who pled guilty to minor charges.

Who knows? The point is that we have the right to own weapons to prevent just such a thing from happening. The same idea as MAD. That the people have guns prevents anyone from attempting to grab absolute control.

Perhaps it is a Tiger Talisman, but perhaps not. (A Tiger Talisman is a protection against Tigers... You know it is working because you don't see any tigers around, do you?)

I agree that if there were no guns, deaths would be lower. That is a plain fact. However, before I support banning guns, I want to see an effective plan on how to get those guns away from the criminals, and ensure they don't get guns in the future.... Which basically is not going to happen in the continental USA.

There are many examples that show this is definitely not certain. In fact once America is disarmed at that point most of the "free" world is defenseless. I don't know how long it would take, but I highly suspect they would then begin to take everything from us soon after. I think the only reason places like the UK or Australia etc haven't experienced full blow tyranny is cause the powers that be knew if Americans saw it, they would never get our guns.

The world they want to build has little respect for any individual liberty. The way some of them talk they have little respect for man having a future at all apart from them.

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Essan
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

I think the only reason places like the UK or Australia etc haven't experienced full blow tyranny is cause the powers that be knew if Americans saw it, they would never get our guns.

 

Olympic gold medal for paranoia!  :D 

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preacherman76
18 minutes ago, Essan said:

Olympic gold medal for paranoia!  :D 

Man do they teach you guys any history at all? There are people STILL LIVE today that can tell you being disarmed is the first step towards horrors you couldn't imagine. Those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

 

Then again I guess I can understand your denial. You are already well past being disarmed. I probably wouldn't want to see it either.

Edited by preacherman76
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Why not
4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

How does the group feel about banning racists from owning guns? The last two major shootings have been perpetrated by people who openly declared their racist beliefs, should we remove the ability to buy guns from those who openly proclaim their hate for another race? 

Or far leftist who specifically seek out Republican baseball practice and gun them down. 

Also, these idiots may have been racist A$$ holes, but they didn't go after just blacks, browns or any one group. So I don't see how your theory works there. It's basically all whites who commit these mass atrocities, should we ban whites from owning guns?

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skliss
4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

i have a social worker friend that showed us a video on the development of the teenage brain and how on going it is up to the age of 27 and even beyond for some. thats not to say that all teenagers are not capable of making logical and sensible decisions like fight or flight or distinguish between reality and pretend,

This is so true. I remember reading an article years ago about teen suicide. They talked about how cognitively the teens had trouble understanding the complete consequences or end results of their actions. They fantasized about how everyone would feel terrible and regret their treatment of the teen and how the teen felt they would get their "revenge" and rejoice to see it without actually realizing they wouldn't be there to see it for themselves. 

I like the idea of an age limit of 21 but maybe it could have an exception in the case of trained military members. 

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aztek
Just now, preacherman76 said:

Man do they teach you guys any history at all?

of course not,  everything we see happening in Europe points at history repeating again, and just like before, anchoring effect will kill millions "none"believers  but it wont be Jews this time. we learned our lesson, Europeans did not. 

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simplybill

This article by Lt. Col Dave Grossman is from PoliceOne.com. He explains the difference between fire protection and active shooter protection in schools.

“In 1999,” Grossman said, “school violence claimed what at the time was an all time record number of kids’ lives. In that year there were 35 dead and a quarter of a million serious injuries due to violence in the school. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. But we hear people say, ‘That’s the year Columbine happened, that’s an anomaly.’ Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record — 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero.

https://www.policeone.com/school-violence/articles/2058168-Active-shooters-in-schools-The-enemy-is-denial/

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RavenHawk
10 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Perhaps it is time for it to move again? Toward not only an educator, but a Guardian as well.

Teachers are supposed to be Shepherds.  That’s tending the needs of the children.  Guiding them.  *AND* protecting them.  And they haven’t been doing a very good job of what they do do, by Progressive indoctrination.  It’s time for a major overhaul in what teachers do.  It needs to be pro-American, America first but not America only.  Our children need to be taught without Liberal bias.  Everything from STEM to the history of this country and how unique our Constitution is.  They need to be instilled with pride and confidence.  Fewer will fall between the cracks.  With teachers engaging the children in citizenship, fewer will become mass shooters and dependents on the government.

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aztek

basically all points to liberalism, can't say i'm surprised . 

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RavenHawk
On 2/20/2018 at 5:17 PM, docyabut2 said:

yep that's what I suggested in another thread turn the schools into  prisons safety.:(

 

On 2/20/2018 at 5:24 PM, Likely Guy said:

...and the universities, and the day care centres, and public pools, and public parks, and the YM and YWCAs - well basically anywhere where young people might gather.

Yep, that'll solve the problem.

 

11 hours ago, and then said:

Solve it?  No... save some lives?  Absolutely.  What's wrong with that approach?

It wouldn’t be a prison but more generally like an ant colony that has soldier ants that mingle within the colony ready to defend it.  It would be a new class of First Responder.  It would be a special kind of American, one that our Founding Fathers saw as true patriots, those that run to the sound of the guns.  The big burly guy that looks like he would rather bite your head off, yet the children flock to him because they know his true character.  Or a petite, meek, unassuming woman that commands a wealth of knowledge but whose background is the envy of anyone in Special Forces.  Not only do they perform their usual jobs but unselfishly double as Guardians.  Our children would have new heroes to look up to.

Edited by RavenHawk
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aztek

but they do not want to solve the problem. solving problem is like curing a patient, it brings no money, treating him all his life is what makes money, same here

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, aztek said:

but they do not want to solve the problem. solving problem is like curing a patient, it brings no money, treating him all his life is what makes money, same here

Honestly, I think it is that way with all the major issues.  It's a nice way to divvy up voters between the two parties. 

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simplybill

Yesterday, a former politician praised the high school students who are demanding safety in their schools. His words:  "We've been waiting for you". Every one of those students should've responded, "Who are the adults here? Why were YOU waiting for US to get involved before protecting our schools?" Once again, the politicians are kicking the can down the road.

 

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docyabut2
8 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

To add, the schools are being close, now parents are not sending the kids to the elementary schools,afraid  the attacker will go there. Now also many reports of a lot of schools are getting threats.:o

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo--474972243.html

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Suspect-arrested-after-school-threat-in-Archbold-474948053.html

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Extra-patrols-on-McComb-Schools-Campus-after-threat-474943493.html

 

Maybe police ought to be put into the schools and gives teachers guns.   

Edited by docyabut2

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docyabut2

I know at the President meetings, democratic governs complained it would cost to much,  but dang why not , give more jobs to police that will protect the schools.

Edited by docyabut2

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Michelle

Local schools have been inundated and closed by threats. I don't know what has gotten into these kids.

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aztek
Just now, Michelle said:

Local schools have been inundated and closed by threats. I don't know what has gotten into these kids.

it's also a way to skip school as well, or do it on a bet. or just for the hell of it,  just saying, they know how to game the system now. 

Edited by aztek
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Captain Risky
4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Teachers are supposed to be Shepherds.  That’s tending the needs of the children.  Guiding them.  *AND* protecting them.  And they haven’t been doing a very good job of what they do do, by Progressive indoctrination.  It’s time for a major overhaul in what teachers do.  It needs to be pro-American, America first but not America only.  Our children need to be taught without Liberal bias.  Everything from STEM to the history of this country and how unique our Constitution is.  They need to be instilled with pride and confidence.  Fewer will fall between the cracks.  With teachers engaging the children in citizenship, fewer will become mass shooters and dependents on the government.

maybe the whole concept of education and schools needs to be redefined. having not just educators but psychologists and security people being part of the education of our children. i don't think that you're right about introducing excluding 'liberal bias.' the only clear winners should be educating and helping kids. lets leave politics outta it.   

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aztek

he is absolutely right, liberal anything has to go. or nothing will change,

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