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Gun Control ?


docyabut2

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18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

If you are hearing something, it’s just your lips still flapping.

 

 

 

 

 

What denial stage?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t say guns were more important.  I said our Rights are more precious.  No wonder you can’t comprehend.Here’s one for you.  If our Rights do not remain intact, then what kind of future do our children have?

 

 

 

 

 

Out of your ignorance, you hit upon one of the most import truths we hold dear.  It is up to us to not fail our children.  But you clearly do not understand this.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, that’s your ignorance.  It also highlights what I was explaining about the difference between freedom in America and the rest of the world.  What you view as fear, I see as vigilance.  To Americans, freedom is active.

Buttery mails. You've been reading to many dusters. Read something a little more introspective on how a society works. We work by cooperation not by fear and suspicion. 

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Whichever side of the debate you're on you have to laugh at this: 

 

Sharks don't kill people; people kill people.

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Quote: 

I didn’t say guns were more important.  I said our Rights are more precious.  No wonder you can’t comprehend.Here’s one for you.  If our Rights do not remain intact, then what kind of future do our children have?

Gotcha, but what future do needlessly dead children have? Why cant they enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Oh yeah, they can't cause they're needlessly dead.

Hank

Edited by Hankenhunter
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22 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

There are many examples that show this is definitely not certain. In fact once America is disarmed at that point most of the "free" world is defenseless. I don't know how long it would take, but I highly suspect they would then begin to take everything from us soon after. I think the only reason places like the UK or Australia etc haven't experienced full blow tyranny is cause the powers that be knew if Americans saw it, they would never get our guns.

The world they want to build has little respect for any individual liberty. The way some of them talk they have little respect for man having a future at all apart from them.

If only you knew how hilarious this is to someone living outside of America. 

Australia would not be over run by tyranny because it's full of Australian's, (some are hiding in the government, shhh!)

The people in power actually care about the country and it's people, same thing in the States.

Don't believe it?

Get involved in local politics.

The only way the Australian or New Zealand people would ever be at risk of tyranny, is if somebody convinced the army to take out Parliament. 

That's a huge call. Likelyhood, zero, because the power balance is currently effective and working.

If it ever sways in too heavily in favour of government, you can bet the people and the army will make forcible changes to governing. Why? Because they're Australian.

 

 

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23 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Man do they teach you guys any history at all? There are people STILL LIVE today that can tell you being disarmed is the first step towards horrors you couldn't imagine. Those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

 

Then again I guess I can understand your denial. You are already well past being disarmed. I probably wouldn't want to see it either.

Again, all through history we see that an armed civilian population doesn't win civil wars. 

We don't need to be armed because we know our army will be more loyal to friends and family than the government. 

Can't you say the same? 

Edited by Setton
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13 hours ago, simplybill said:

It's not rage, Farmer, it's disappointment. Now that America is moving to a post-Judeo/Christian society, we're being forced to protect our schoolchildren from other schoolchildren that don't have the foundation of Faith that leads to self-control.  

We remove religion from schools... Hand the education system to the Liberals... AND when education and the school system fails... It is the Republicans and Guns that are to blame.

And by "religion" I am including such FANATICAL things as the Pledge of Allegiance... ("...Under GOD" !!! We can't have that!!!!)

Edited by DieChecker
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5 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

No, you're seeing Modern Republicanism at work by blinding you to the truth by blatant fear mongering. Thats the whole Republican platform. Keep on stickin it to the evil boogie men 24/7 by jackasses like Alex Jones and his ilk. Your whole Republican political system is base on Liberal hate. News flash kiddies, Liberals don't hate you. We're scared of you and the chaos you represent. You want to stay mired in the past, we want to raise mankind as high as we can. One wants progress, the other wants stagnation. 

Hank

Those who live in fear will announce fear as the main tool of their opponents. 

I don't see Pro-Gun people spreading fear... I see Liberals doing that. Pro-Gun people generally promote protection and education, which retaining their Right to own a gun. 

Liberals do not want to bring people up... They want to establish Control. Just look at the various minorities and protected classes who have been Pro-Left for as long as anyone can remember... Still poor... Still disadvantaged... Still being used for political fodder by politicians. The left has been fighting poverty and such for a hundred years, and are there any less poor now? Because actually stopping poverty isn't what they want... Control is what they want.

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2 hours ago, Setton said:

Again, all through history we see that an armed civilian population doesn't win civil wars. 

We don't need to be armed because we know our army will be more loyal to friends and family than the government. 

Can't you say the same? 

Is that so? Do you mean uber recent history? Because civilians revolting is how all the European super powers lost Africa, Asia, North America and South America. Seems like revolution by civilians has a fantastic history of success. And do you suppose those revolutions would have succeeded if those populations had no weapons?...... Sigh.....

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6 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Still hearing nothing but, but, but, but. Still at the denial stage eh? Here's one for you. If you agree that the children are our future, and that our very survival as a species depends on them, why would you think guns are more important? Your answers also indicate that freedom is more important than the kids. You are slaves to fear, doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Hank

Because it isn't enough to just survive, assuming the powers that be allow us to survive once we are completely defenseless. Its about freedom, that's more important then anything.  "Give me liberty or give me death". There are ways to protect these kids. Many great idea's have already been brought up. Taking away any chance we as a people have to fend off tyranny is the most foolish way to go about this. What's worse, it wouldn't even help. If a person has gone that far off the rails where they are willing die to kill a bunch of people, they are gonna find a way. It isn't even that hard to come up with such a plain. Hell two cars and a long cable could take out a hundred people in a crowd easy. Moral degradation is the cancer causing this. It's sick to me that people think they can put a band aid over that.

Also its so funny to me that people think the right to bear arms is based in fear. Its based in strength. Personally I never even think about it at all, unless I'm talking to someone who wants to disarm me. I mean, do you really think we are walking around in fear? People who are afraid of freedom are the ones who have become willful slaves to fear. And because of it you just might find yourself turning into a actual slave, cause there would be nothing you could do to stop it when they put a gun in your face and tell you to get to work. 

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15 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 

And that's exactly what has happened in America. What you're seeing from conservatives is a rage stemming from the fact that their ideology has been losing in that arena for 30 some years now. 

You make it sound like losing morality in this country over the last 30 years was a good thing. You just described the old saying 'good times create weak men, weak men create hard times, hard times create strong men'

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5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Whichever side of the debate you're on you have to laugh at this: 

 

Sharks don't kill people; people kill people.

Hu? that a ridiculous analogy. If anything we are the ones saying put up a net (have armed security). You want to make sharks extinct.

This another who the hell are you and what have to done to my friend moment. You'd really disarm law abiding citizens? What kind of libertarian are you?  

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6 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

I tried to go as deep to the core of the problem as I could. Either you love your kids more than your guns or you don't. If you love your kids more, then what are you waiting for? If you love your guns more, then you are one of these sick individuals that should be identified as high risk and socially unstable. So no guns for you Bubba. So whats it gonna be, yes or no?

Hank

Hank

That is a bull crap excuse.    I can say the same about pools, cars or candy.  

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5 hours ago, Kismit said:

 

If only you knew how hilarious this is to someone living outside of America. 

Australia would not be over run by tyranny because it's full of Australian's, (some are hiding in the government, shhh!)

The people in power actually care about the country and it's people, same thing in the States.

Don't believe it?

Get involved in local politics.

The only way the Australian or New Zealand people would ever be at risk of tyranny, is if somebody convinced the army to take out Parliament. 

That's a huge call. Likelyhood, zero, because the power balance is currently effective and working.

If it ever sways in too heavily in favour of government, you can bet the people and the army will make forcible changes to governing. Why? Because they're Australian.

 

 

I'm well aware of how funny you think all this is. I'm sure there were plenty of people under Stalin who weren't at all worried about the horror his utopian society would bring. Or Mao, or Chavez etc etc. What good does caring do if you cant defend your idea's? If you cant defend people, caring wont help anyone against people with means to kill.

Honestly though, that's great. Do what you want. If you are fine being disarmed and want to ignore all the historical hard lessons we have learned, awesome. I just ask that you give us the same respect. It isn't your problem, nor is it your business. There is absolutely nothing you can say to me to convince me that we dont live in a world where force, or at least the option of force is what rules this world. If you have no option, you will eventually be taken, by force. Same as its always been. Everywhere.

Besides, maybe you wont have to deal with anything like that in your life time. Maybe you have only doomed your great great grandchildren to slavery and death.

 

We are already seeing the violent mindset of communism in the entire western world, and their need to eradicate entire sections of the population who dare think and express ideas outside the extreme radical  left wing box. There are already signs we are headed down the exact path that took hundreds of millions to the grave. These people have every bit of hate and anger and resolve that the utopians in the soviet union had. Last thing we should do is make the same mistakes they did. Number one of which was allowing themselves to be disarmed.

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You ban guns, then these fruit-loops will turn to knives, you ban knives these same people will turn to home chemistry and make explosives. It's not the guns that are a problem, its the guns getting into the hands of the wrong people that is the problem. It's not educating gun owners sufficiently to know where there weapons are at any given time, or not keeping them secured.

You need to look beyond the presumed "Bravado" of gun owners because most have no such character trait. President Trump is right to look at banning any means to turn an ordinary weapon into a fully automatic weapon, and also to question the mental stability requirements for gun ownership.  

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Those who live in fear will announce fear as the main tool of their opponents. 

I don't see Pro-Gun people spreading fear... I see Liberals doing that. Pro-Gun people generally promote protection and education, which retaining their Right to own a gun. 

Liberals do not want to bring people up... They want to establish Control. Just look at the various minorities and protected classes who have been Pro-Left for as long as anyone can remember... Still poor... Still disadvantaged... Still being used for political fodder by politicians. The left has been fighting poverty and such for a hundred years, and are there any less poor now? Because actually stopping poverty isn't what they want... Control is what they want.

Nail, hammer, head :tu:

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6 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Whichever side of the debate you're on you have to laugh at this: 

 

Sharks don't kill people; people kill people.

LOL...that is pretty hilarious.

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6 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Quote: 

I didn’t say guns were more important.  I said our Rights are more precious.  No wonder you can’t comprehend.Here’s one for you.  If our Rights do not remain intact, then what kind of future do our children have?

Gotcha, but what future do needlessly dead children have? Why cant they enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Oh yeah, they can't cause they're needlessly dead.

Hank

Yeah...that's the thing.

You don't have many rights dead. 

At least not that we know about.

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8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

 If you agree that the children are our future, and that our very survival as a species depends on them, why would you think guns are more important? Your answers also indicate that freedom is more important than the kids.

because they are already here, (all of them, registered, not registered, kits, diy, ... prbly a billion) and majority of them are not going anywhere regardless of laws,  because bad guys have them and use them, because vast majority of kids, handle and shot guns too, and use them quite  successfully for protection.  respect them and know how to use them, (my friend's kid is 14, plys airsoft, i have no doubt his skills are more than adequate to use gun in defense,  and there are plenty of kids like that, )  very few of them, are committing such crimes, tiny fraction of a percent.  

 

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8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

 

No, you're seeing Modern Republicanism at work by blinding you to the truth by blatant fear mongering. Thats the whole Republican platform. Keep on stickin it to the evil boogie men 24/7 by jackasses like Alex Jones and his ilk. Your whole Republican political system is base on Liberal hate. News flash kiddies, Liberals don't hate you. We're scared of you and the chaos you represent. You want to stay mired in the past, we want to raise mankind as high as we can. One wants progress, the other wants stagnation.

You’ve only gone deep into the koolaid.  You are so hung up on ‘fear’.  How many times do I have to say that Conservatives are vigilant, not fearful?  Do you even have an inkling of the difference?  I really doubt it.  Your reply will prove it.  Do you realize that it is Progressivism that spreads fear?  Fear is how it controls people.  You appear to be one.  I might agree that Alex Jones is a jackass; he is not representative of Conservatives.  Once in a while, he’ll bring up a good point but he’s just an excuse for you to spread your fear.  You don’t spend much time listening to the Republican platform do you?  CPAC 2018 just ended.  I didn’t get a chance to hear all of it, but what I did hear was exciting and up lifting.  There was no fear there.  It was better than the doom and gloom of the prior Administration.  America has her best days still ahead of her. 

The only fear I see are the Progressives from the loony bin that are afraid to lose power.  That’s Hilary, Schumer, Pelosi, Pocahontas (my favorite), Waters, Perez, Ellison, etc.  These are the people that spread hate and fear.  What have the Progressive brought to places like the inner city over the past 6 decades?  Progressives hate success because when people are successful, they don’t need politicians.  It is the Progressives that create the chaos so they can hang on to power.  If American Progressives want to raise Americans as high as possible, then why to they over tax the people?  Why do they create special classes and separate the classes?  Why do they take parting shots at Trump to cause the market to drop, hurting people?  Why do they continually choose illegals over their own citizens?  That is not raising up.  That is far from being compassionate.  That is tearing down.  You can’t see how tired-out the Progressive rhetoric is, when you say that a successful billionaire is stagnant?  That is so hilarious.  The Progressives are out of touch – disconnected from reality.  It is the Progressives that want to remain in the past.  They can’t deal with the future.  The future has no place for them, at least not in this country.  Maybe, they can find new life in Canada?

Yes, I have fears.  They are fears that so many are suckered into the Progressive trap and that is the bogeyman that we need to be vigilant of 24/7.  But we don’t deal with it by sticking our heads in the sand.  We deal with it by being vigilant.  Being aware of our world.  And being successful. 

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9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Wow. You really do think the world is America.

That’s not what he is saying.  But the US is the world leader and that affects everything.  There’s one observation I’ve noticed from watching the Olympics over the past few years.  In the Olympics of the 60s and 70s, the athlete’s character and physical attributes of each country where stereotypical for that country.  Today, most athletes have some connection to the United States.  Some train here.  Some live here (go to college).  Some are Americans (natural born or naturalized) that have hereditary ties with some other nation.  Some have American coaches.  Today, they all look American.  They speak their own language but their mannerisms are American.  I have pride in my athletes but I can also share the pride that others have for their athletes.  Most of these athletes build relationships with each other because they have competed against each other so many times.  They are friends and rivals as opposed to just rivals.

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5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Is that so? Do you mean uber recent history? Because civilians revolting is how all the European super powers lost Africa, Asia, North America and South America. Seems like revolution by civilians has a fantastic history of success. And do you suppose those revolutions would have succeeded if those populations had no weapons?...... Sigh.....

These are revolutions against a foreign occupying or colonial  power, not a country's own government. 

For revolts against a government (remember I was talking about specifically British history) we can look at examples both with professional soldiers on both sides or only the government side. 

In every case, a popular revolt without military support fails (usually miserably). A revolt with professional soldiers supporting succeeds more often than not. 

This has been true from the barons revolt in the 13th century to Irish civil war. 

We also see through all this that the military will not support a tyrannical government. They have proved their loyalty to the people over the government again and again. 

I ask again, do you think your military is any less loyal to its people than the British? 

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10 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Buttery mails. You've been reading to many dusters. Read something a little more introspective on how a society works. We work by cooperation not by fear and suspicion. 

You have no coherent response so this is all you can come up with?  I see your fear.

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10 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Whichever side of the debate you're on you have to laugh at this: 

 

Sharks don't kill people; people kill people.

Cute but inaccurate.  I would say it would be more like:

Australia:  Don’t worry we’re going to confiscate all sharks that attack and make them illegal.

USA: We’ll do whatever it takes to keep Americans safe.  The common sense thing to do would be to stay out of the water.  Or we could just hunt them all down and thin the herd.

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10 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Gotcha, but what future do needlessly dead children have? Why cant they enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Oh yeah, they can't cause they're needlessly dead.

What future do the living children have if their Rights are not intact?

Again, what about the vast majority that dies from all other causes?  You just ignore them?

At times like this, one needs to think logically and not emotionally, and you aren’t even thinking emotionally.  Maybe stupidly (to coin a phrase).

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