Gun Control ?

[Setton]

1 minute ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It depends on the school district. Each one has its own procedures. All or most of them take children's safety seriously. In fact, some of our schools are much safer than the ordinary British school.

I've no doubt some American ones are safer than most British ones. That's like saying some Kenyans are richer than most Americans, doesn't make it representative. 

But if you don't have a secure entrance at the very least how do you keep children safe? 

Forget shootings for a moment, what about paedophiles, abusive family members or just regular thieves and criminals. Do schools even know who's in the building when? What about fires or other emergencies? 

I'm genuinely not having a go here, I really don't understand how you can take children's safety seriously and not have this bare minimum of protection.  

[preacherman76]

11 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

When was the last time the second amendment got seriously examined? It was a Supreme Court ruling that the important part of it was “shall not be infringed”, but when was that? Maybe it’s time to examine it closely, either your side gets reinforced and the other side gets shut down or visa versa. 

The concept hasn’t changed. In fact historically around the world the point has only been strengthened. 

Stalin, Mao, Chavez, Hitler etc etc gave us more then enough examples on why you never let your government disarm the people. The founders have been proven right over and over and over again.

Edited February 22, 2018 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

I've no doubt some American ones are safer than most British ones. That's like saying some Kenyans are richer than most Americans, doesn't make it representative. 

But if you don't have a secure entrance at the very least how do you keep children safe? 

Forget shootings for a moment, what about paedophiles, abusive family members or just regular thieves and criminals. Do schools even know who's in the building when? What about fires or other emergencies? 

I'm genuinely not having a go here, I really don't understand how you can take children's safety seriously and not have this bare minimum of protection.  

Agreed. My sons school is great like that. I forgot my ID one day while picking up my son who was sick. They wouldn’t let me in. I had to go all the way home and come back. 

The women apologized to me, but I stopped her. She didn’t owe me anything. Safety was the only important thing

[Setton]

4 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Agreed. My sons school is great like that. I forgot my ID one day while picking up my son who was sick. They wouldn’t let me in. I had to go all the way home and come back. 

The women apologized to me, but I stopped her. She didn’t owe me anything. Safety was the only important thing

Exactly as it should be. Our school receptionist used to get so much stick for it but it genuinely can save children from serious harm. 

We might not agree on the solution to school shootings but surely everyone can agree that school security is necessary whether you have guns in society or not. And if it actually does prevent some shootings without having some showdown between gun rights and control activists, so much the better. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

8 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

The concept hasn’t changed. In fact historically around the world the point has only been strengthened. 

Stalin, Mao, Chavez, Hitler etc etc gave us more then enough examples on why you never let your government disarm the people. The founders have been proven right over and over and over again.

• 2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
• 2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
• 2017 April 10 - North Park Elementary School shooting - (3 dead)
• 2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
• 2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
• 2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
• 2013, January 15 - (3 dead) ^[28]
• 2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
• 2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
• 2012, February 27 - Chardon High School shooting - ( 3 dead)
• 2010, February 12 - University of Alabama in Huntsville shooting - (3 dead)
• 2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
• 2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
• 2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
• 2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
• 2002, January 16 - Appalachian School of Law shooting - (3 dead)
• 1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
• 1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
• 1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
• 1997, December 1 - Heath High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1997, October 1 - Pearl High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1996, August 15 - San Diego State University shooting - (3 dead)
• 1996, February 2 - Frontier Middle School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1992, May 1 - Lindhurst High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
• 1989, 17 January - Stockton schoolyard shooting - (6 deaths)^[29]
• 1976, 12 July - California State University, Fullerton massacre - (7 deaths)
• 1974, December 30 - Olean High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
• 1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths) ^[30]
• 1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
• 1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths) ^{[22][31][32][25]}
• 1898, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths) ^[26]
• 1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths) ^[27]
• 1868, December 22 - (3 dead) ^[33]
• 1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

 

more than enough examples that maybe, JUST MAYBE, that right the Founding Fathers May be, but they might ALSO have not imagined the future we find ourselves in now. That’s the beauty of your system, you can examine things from the present perspective and add new amendments. 

[Paranormal Panther]

10 minutes ago, Setton said:

I've no doubt some American ones are safer than most British ones. That's like saying some Kenyans are richer than most Americans, doesn't make it representative. 

But if you don't have a secure entrance at the very least how do you keep children safe? 

Forget shootings for a moment, what about paedophiles, abusive family members or just regular thieves and criminals. Do schools even know who's in the building when? What about fires or other emergencies? 

I'm genuinely not having a go here, I really don't understand how you can take children's safety seriously and not have this bare minimum of protection.  

Like I said, it depends on the school district. Many of them have rules and regulations that call for strictly screening people who aren't staff or students. It's safe to say that they'll be reviewing their procedures in light of this tragedy. It's also wise to keep in mind how very anomalous this school shooting is. 

[preacherman76]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

• 2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
• 2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
• 2017 April 10 - North Park Elementary School shooting - (3 dead)
• 2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
• 2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
• 2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
• 2013, January 15 - (3 dead) ^[28]
• 2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
• 2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
• 2012, February 27 - Chardon High School shooting - ( 3 dead)
• 2010, February 12 - University of Alabama in Huntsville shooting - (3 dead)
• 2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
• 2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
• 2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
• 2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
• 2002, January 16 - Appalachian School of Law shooting - (3 dead)
• 1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
• 1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
• 1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
• 1997, December 1 - Heath High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1997, October 1 - Pearl High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1996, August 15 - San Diego State University shooting - (3 dead)
• 1996, February 2 - Frontier Middle School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1992, May 1 - Lindhurst High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
• 1989, 17 January - Stockton schoolyard shooting - (6 deaths)^[29]
• 1976, 12 July - California State University, Fullerton massacre - (7 deaths)
• 1974, December 30 - Olean High School shooting - (3 dead)
• 1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
• 1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths) ^[30]
• 1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
• 1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths) ^{[22][31][32][25]}
• 1898, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths) ^[26]
• 1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths) ^[27]
• 1868, December 22 - (3 dead) ^[33]
• 1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

 

more than enough examples that maybe, JUST MAYBE, that right the Founding Fathers May be, but they might ALSO have not imagined the future we find ourselves in now. That’s the beauty of your system, you can examine things from the present perspective and add new amendments. 

As bad as all that is, it isn’t communist China, or Soviet Russia. I’ll take this body count over theirs any day. There is a large group of people in this country trying to bring about exactly what we saw in those communist countries, they are just gonna do it right this time lol

Now that’s not to say nothing should be done. Clearly something should be done. Disarming law abiding citizens just isn’t that answer

[+and-then]

On 2/21/2018 at 5:25 PM, Hankenhunter said:

Europe says hi. Didn't know it was so small. 

Charlie Hebdo says 'allo...

[Paranormal Panther]

17 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Why don't other secular countries have this problem then?

Some American towns are safer than Asian and European countries. The crime rate greatly varies from region to region. We go from comparative dystopias to comparative utopias. We're such a diverse, mammoth country that blanket statements don't apply if one wishes to have an *honest* conversation about the subject.  

[Setton]

38 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Like I said, it depends on the school district. Many of them have rules and regulations that call for strictly screening people who aren't staff or students. It's safe to say that they'll be reviewing their procedures in light of this tragedy. It's also wise to keep in mind how very anomalous this school shooting is. 

But that's exactly my point. It's not just about school shootings. Any school that doesn't have secure entrances is years behind the times and endangering their pupils and staff for a number of reasons, malicious and accidental. If there are any at all, that needs fixing yesterday. 

[Paranormal Panther]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

But that's exactly my point. It's not just about school shootings. Any school that doesn't have secure entrances is years behind the times and endangering their pupils and staff for a number of reasons, malicious and accidental. If there are any at all, that needs fixing yesterday. 

I can't really speak to the situation in most school districts right now. I'm not an expert on how all American schools screen people. I do know that it varies by school district, and you'd likely find a wide range of rules, from strict to lenient. That same kind of dynamic holds true for a lot of things.

[Farmer77]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Forget shootings for a moment, what about paedophiles, abusive family members or just regular thieves and criminals. Do schools even know who's in the building when? What about fires or other emergencies? 

Like Paranormal Panther said it really varies from locale to locale. 

When I was in Southern AZ and my kids school was within a mile of the cartel's "highway" in the desert you had to enter through two sallyports, then check into the office then be buzzed from the office in to the school proper. 

Where I live now every door in the high school is unlocked until school starts then you can only enter through 3 or 4 different access points after that but they are unguarded. 

 . 

[Setton]

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Like Paranormal Panther said it really varies from locale to locale. 

When I was in Southern AZ and my kids school was within a mile of the cartel's "highway" in the desert you had to enter through two sallyports, then check into the office then be buzzed from the office in to the school proper. 

Where I live now every door in the high school is unlocked until school starts then you can only enter through 3 or 4 different access points after that but they are unguarded. 

 . 

Then, like I say, that needs to change. Even something as simple as a fire could be a disaster with such poor entrance procedures. 

[Michelle]

It was rather unnerving for me, when visiting Europe, the level of security some businesses had. It made me wonder if we were in a bad area of town. Those kinds of precautions are usually only taken as a last resort around here.

The local schools are, however, moving into high tech, less obvious, security measures. 

[simplybill]

Train teacher-volunteers in the same way the TSA trains Air Marshals: with location-specific training that minimizes collateral damage. Advertise the fact that schools have armed, highly-trained employees that are prepared to stop (kill) hostile intruders. Make sure the bad guys know that schools are no longer a soft target. Of course the sociopaths will find other soft targets, but at least the school kids will be safe.

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Train teacher-volunteers in the same way the TSA trains Air Marshals: with location-specific training that minimizes collateral damage. Advertise the fact that schools have armed, highly-trained employees that are prepared to stop (kill) hostile intruders. Make sure the bad guys know that schools are no longer a soft target. Of course the sociopaths will find other soft targets, but at least the school kids will be safe.

Would you be for the federal government funding "school marshals"?  

[Michelle]

2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Would you be for the federal government funding "school marshals"?  

Inner city schools already have armed guards, as in on duty police officers. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, Michelle said:

Inner city schools already have armed guards, as in on duty police officers. 

Parkland had an armed police officer there as well but he stayed outside during the shooting. IDK I'm not a fan of arming teachers, just talking the issue out. 

[RavenHawk]

2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

more than enough examples that maybe, JUST MAYBE, that right the Founding Fathers May be, but they might ALSO have not imagined the future we find ourselves in now. That’s the beauty of your system, you can examine things from the present perspective and add new amendments. 

I think they did imagine.  Perhaps not the exact predicament but they foresaw how far things could have degraded if the people forgot what it all meant.  But they still gave us this system knowing that enough patriots will rise up when they are needed.    Franklin expressed his concern when someone asked him “what have you given us?”  And his reply was “A Republic, if you can keep it.”  The Founding Fathers knew the weakness of Human Nature.  Amendments weren’t necessarily meant to be changed on only present perspective.  We’ve seen what happens when it is (18^th & 21^st).

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Setton said:

So many people defending the right to own guns are claiming it's to prevent a tyrannical government rising up, it got me wondering - what do you think would happen in a country like the UK where guns are strictly controlled if the government stopped listening to the people? 

Because it's happened before and anyone who knows English history will tell you - the armed forces will split with some supporting the people and some the government. On most occasions, the ones supporting the people win. 

By contrast, when there have been rebellions by an armed populace without the help of professional soldiers, they always fail miserably. From this we can conclude it is not an armed populace that will defend against tyranny, it is the loyalty of our soldiers to our people. 

Do gun rights activists really have such a low opinion of American servicemen and women that they wouldn't be as loyal to their friends and families as British ones have been for a thousand years?  

If asked the very question myself. It's also 2018,  some people with guns aren't going to scratch modern warfare weapons. They will just end up dead if they storm thier government. 

[RavenHawk]

I heard this earlier to day.  It is an interview with Charlton Heston from 1997.  It’s amazing how little things change.

 

https://soundcloud.com/conservativereview/levin-charlton-heston-explains-fundamentals-of-the-second-amendment

 

Text:

https://patriotpost.us/pages/9

[simplybill]

32 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Would you be for the federal government funding "school marshals"?  

Federal, State, City, County. It’s not important to me who funds the training. We need to stop talking about it and actually do something that works. 20 years have gone by since Columbine, and kids are still being slaughtered. What are we waiting for?

[Farmer77]

Just now, simplybill said:

Federal, State, City, County. It’s not important to me who funds the training. We need to stop talking about it and actually do something that works. 20 years have gone by since Columbine, and kids are still being slaughtered. What are we waiting for?

I was asking more about the formation of a paid federal law enforcement position. 

I think the concept of arming teachers is really really failed logic that will only lead to more problems down the road. 

[Michelle]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I was asking more about the formation of a paid federal law enforcement position.

It wouldn't be a matter of federal law enforcement. Schools are the states jurisdiction.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Michelle

[simplybill]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I was asking more about the formation of a paid federal law enforcement position. 

I think the concept of arming teachers is really really failed logic that will only lead to more problems down the road. 

The airlines have been allowing pilots to carry concealed weapons for years, and there haven’t been any problems. There are teachers who have that same sheepdog mentality that will do anything necessary to protect the children they teach. If a teacher is willing to undergo the same rigorous training that pilots do, then I have no qualms about letting them be that added layer of protection.