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BahadirArici

Debunking some wrong assumptions about aliens

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BahadirArici

1) There are no Aliens.
Even if we ruled the UFO enigma out, in a Universe with quadrillion stars, the probability of life existing apart from Earth is way higher than the opposite.

2) Even if there are Aliens, we must be the most developed civilisation.
Earth is 4.54 billion years old and the Universe is about 13.8 billion years old. So if there are Alien races, some of them must be billion years ahead of us. 

3) We shouldnt try to contact with Alien civilisations because they might harm us if they know about us. 
This is absurd. How can it be possible that a Type 3 civilisation will know about us only because we tried to contact with them. If we are observing the Universe with our limited technology, they most probably are doing the same thing for billion years. They probably already know we exist. And obviously we are not attacked yet.

4) Alien civilisations know about us but they dont care at all.
We humans observe everything, especially other living, their habitat, their habits, everything about them. Aliens should also have "scientiests" who observe us with all the technology they have. Observing everything.

5)  Aliens are so advanced that we are like forrest animals/apes/insects to them. 
We are not even as developed as a Type 1 civilisation, that is true but we are not inferior beings. We are intelligent beings and we belong to the same intelligent community of the Universe as any of them.

6) Some Alien civilisations are evil and they want our minererals/organs/want to eat us.
This is plain black propaganda. They are Type 3 civilisation. Their technology is beyond our imagination. They dont need anything from us.

7) Aliens are just organic beings like us.
Even we are on the doorsteps of Singularity. So, when we are thinking about Aliens, we should also be thinking about a community of inorganics living together with organics: a community of Artificial Intellectuals.

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Dejarma
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BahadirArici said:

There are no Aliens.

and then you go on to contradict this statement...

i'm confused

Edit to add:

yep sorry, i see your point now -- i think.

 

Edited by Dejarma

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South Alabam

Not really debunked. Opinions maybe.

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khol
Posted (edited)

We should'nt ever  "assume " anything about extraterrestrials. Assumptions are just beliefs without proof.And the fact is we just have no idea what to expect. Even at the microbial level. And intelligent forms could exist in ways that would seem completely baffling to us. Or intelligent life is out there but exceedingly rare. The distances so vast between us the likelyhood of a chance encounter is very small.

When discussing alien life its all just speculation

 

Edited by khol
spelling
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LightAngel
17 minutes ago, khol said:

 And intelligent forms could exist in ways that would seem completely baffling to us.

 

Exactly!
 

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GlitterRose

So you've met them, then?

All of them?

Because...if you haven't, then you're making just as many assumptions.

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rudidur

The basic, or the first form of life in the universe, as well as on Earth, is a paranormal form.
Physical bodies are just an archive niche or a waiting room for eternal life.5a978712a42ea_nonamora.png.a15039b49a78ca648521922d9465b5b7.png

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khol
6 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

So you've met them, then?

All of them?

Because...if you haven't, then you're making just as many assumptions.

What do you think Rose ?

An assumption is something that you assume to be the case, even without proof. For example, people might make the assumption that you're a nerd if you wear glasses, even though that's not true

Where as speculation is forming a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. 

Splitting hairs ?   yeah maybe but assuming and speculating are two different things. The OP is referring to assumptions on alien life and I was just commenting on that.

 

 

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GlitterRose
21 hours ago, khol said:

What do you think Rose ?

An assumption is something that you assume to be the case, even without proof. For example, people might make the assumption that you're a nerd if you wear glasses, even though that's not true

Where as speculation is forming a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. 

Splitting hairs ?   yeah maybe but assuming and speculating are two different things. The OP is referring to assumptions on alien life and I was just commenting on that.

 

 

I don't think the OP has met any aliens. 

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Piney
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Never knew of anyone suggesting we were the most advanced.

Frank Herbert and Isaac Asimov both theorized that we were "it" in both the Dune series and Foundation series respectively

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stereologist
48 minutes ago, Piney said:

Frank Herbert and Isaac Asimov both theorized that we were "it" in both the Dune series and Foundation series respectively

I read the foundation series a long time ago. I forgot about that part.

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Citizen21
On 2/28/2018 at 4:04 PM, BahadirArici said:

...

6) Some Alien civilisations are evil and they want our minererals/organs/want to eat us.

This is plain black propaganda. They are Type 3 civilisation. Their technology is beyond our imagination. They dont need anything from us.

...

^ You 1. assume that an Alien civilization would be 'Type 3', and 2. assume no Type 3 civilization would view Earth (it's lifeforms and materials) as a resource.

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Citizen21

It's irrational to assume nobody in the Universe would wanna harvest Earth resources (including humans).

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Brandy333
Posted (edited)
On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 5:04 PM, BahadirArici said:

1) There are no Aliens.
Even if we ruled the UFO enigma out, in a Universe with quadrillion stars, the probability of life existing apart from Earth is way higher than the opposite.

2) Even if there are Aliens, we must be the most developed civilisation.
Earth is 4.54 billion years old and the Universe is about 13.8 billion years old. So if there are Alien races, some of them must be billion years ahead of us. 

3) We shouldnt try to contact with Alien civilisations because they might harm us if they know about us. 
This is absurd. How can it be possible that a Type 3 civilisation will know about us only because we tried to contact with them. If we are observing the Universe with our limited technology, they most probably are doing the same thing for billion years. They probably already know we exist. And obviously we are not attacked yet.

4) Alien civilisations know about us but they dont care at all.
We humans observe everything, especially other living, their habitat, their habits, everything about them. Aliens should also have "scientiests" who observe us with all the technology they have. Observing everything.

5)  Aliens are so advanced that we are like forrest animals/apes/insects to them. 
We are not even as developed as a Type 1 civilisation, that is true but we are not inferior beings. We are intelligent beings and we belong to the same intelligent community of the Universe as any of them.

6) Some Alien civilisations are evil and they want our minererals/organs/want to eat us.
This is plain black propaganda. They are Type 3 civilisation. Their technology is beyond our imagination. They dont need anything from us.

7) Aliens are just organic beings like us.
Even we are on the doorsteps of Singularity. So, when we are thinking about Aliens, we should also be thinking about a community of inorganics living together with organics: a community of Artificial Intellectuals.

Your remarks to each of these myths is very impressive, and I love what you say in #6:  Their technology is beyond our imagination.   They don't need anything from us.

Edited by Brandy333

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Myles
On 2/28/2018 at 6:04 PM, BahadirArici said:

1) There are no Aliens.
Even if we ruled the UFO enigma out, in a Universe with quadrillion stars, the probability of life existing apart from Earth is way higher than the opposite.

Most think life does exist out there.   Whether it is intelligent life living in the same time that we are limits it a little.   Add to it that it would need to be relatively close to Earth as well.

2) Even if there are Aliens, we must be the most developed civilisation.
Earth is 4.54 billion years old and the Universe is about 13.8 billion years old. So if there are Alien races, some of them must be billion years ahead of us. 

Or maybe not.   It depends on when intelligent life started to develop and how it did.

3) We shouldnt try to contact with Alien civilisations because they might harm us if they know about us. 
This is absurd. How can it be possible that a Type 3 civilisation will know about us only because we tried to contact with them. If we are observing the Universe with our limited technology, they most probably are doing the same thing for billion years. They probably already know we exist. And obviously we are not attacked yet

Odds are that we have not been attacked because we have not been detected.

4) Alien civilisations know about us but they dont care at all.
We humans observe everything, especially other living, their habitat, their habits, everything about them. Aliens should also have "scientiests" who observe us with all the technology they have. Observing everything.

Odds are that we have not been observed because we have not been detected.

5)  Aliens are so advanced that we are like forrest animals/apes/insects to them. 
We are not even as developed as a Type 1 civilisation, that is true but we are not inferior beings. We are intelligent beings and we belong to the same intelligent community of the Universe as any of them.

?

6) Some Alien civilisations are evil and they want our minererals/organs/want to eat us.
This is plain black propaganda. They are Type 3 civilisation. Their technology is beyond our imagination. They dont need anything from us.

?

7) Aliens are just organic beings like us.
Even we are on the doorsteps of Singularity. So, when we are thinking about Aliens, we should also be thinking about a community of inorganics living together with organics: a community of Artificial Intellectuals.

 

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Fila
On 3/3/2018 at 2:37 PM, Citizen21 said:

It's irrational to assume nobody in the Universe would wanna harvest Earth resources (including humans).

I always thought this too.., but it is possible to make synthetic gold with enough power. I think anything could be replicated.., but that is my personal opinion, not fact.  But I would guess if someone could traverse space quickly enough, there would be other solar systems filled with minerals perhaps. Assuming travelling those distances are realistic and feasible for loads.

Genetic material may also be a precious resource as you mentioned. Especially when we fully understand DNA, and can alter it to make ourselves better. Similar to how we would just take traits from known species (electric eel for cool super shock power, lol or jelly / starfish for regeneration), perhaps it is easier to let mother nature evolve genetic abilities than to design our own. Anyway.., cool topic to talk about even if we never come up with an official answer.

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badeskov
On 3/2/2018 at 7:37 PM, Citizen21 said:

It's irrational to assume nobody in the Universe would wanna harvest Earth resources (including humans).

Why? 

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Alien Origins
On 2/28/2018 at 7:30 PM, Dejarma said:

and then you go on to contradict this statement...

i'm confused

Edit to add:

yep sorry, i see your point now -- i think.

 

Its called something I mentioned in another thread called argument from ignorance....In the first statement he says there are not Aliens then in the last one he says they are organic beings...WTH! If you say there are no aliens you don't go on to say they are..Your post should have stopped with your first statement. 

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moonman
Posted (edited)

On the topic of us being detected or not, if an alien civilization is far enough ahead of us technologically, they could have ways to see across the universe we cannot comprehend. They might know everything there is to know, like gods.

Basing what they could know on our immature limited detection capabilities is silly at best. Radio signals and light speed could mean nothing more to them than what a scribble on a piece of paper does to us - easily crushed and meaningless.

Edited by moonman
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jaylemurph

So, not as much dispelling assumptions as burning straw men so we'd all appreciate how clever and open-minded the OP is.

--Jaylemurph 

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Dejarma
21 minutes ago, moonman said:

On the topic of us being detected or not, if an alien civilization is far enough ahead of us technologically, they could have ways to see across the universe we cannot comprehend. They might know everything there is to know, like gods.

Basing what they could know on our immature limited detection capabilities is silly at best. Radio signals and light speed could mean nothing more to them than what a scribble on a piece of paper does to us - easily crushed and meaningless.

yes exactly- good words;)

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Emma_Acid
On 28/02/2018 at 11:04 PM, BahadirArici said:

1) There are no Aliens.
Even if we ruled the UFO enigma out, in a Universe with quadrillion stars, the probability of life existing apart from Earth is way higher than the opposite.

2) Even if there are Aliens, we must be the most developed civilisation.
Earth is 4.54 billion years old and the Universe is about 13.8 billion years old. So if there are Alien races, some of them must be billion years ahead of us. 

3) We shouldnt try to contact with Alien civilisations because they might harm us if they know about us. 
This is absurd. How can it be possible that a Type 3 civilisation will know about us only because we tried to contact with them. If we are observing the Universe with our limited technology, they most probably are doing the same thing for billion years. They probably already know we exist. And obviously we are not attacked yet.

4) Alien civilisations know about us but they dont care at all.
We humans observe everything, especially other living, their habitat, their habits, everything about them. Aliens should also have "scientiests" who observe us with all the technology they have. Observing everything.

5)  Aliens are so advanced that we are like forrest animals/apes/insects to them. 
We are not even as developed as a Type 1 civilisation, that is true but we are not inferior beings. We are intelligent beings and we belong to the same intelligent community of the Universe as any of them.

6) Some Alien civilisations are evil and they want our minererals/organs/want to eat us.
This is plain black propaganda. They are Type 3 civilisation. Their technology is beyond our imagination. They dont need anything from us.

7) Aliens are just organic beings like us.
Even we are on the doorsteps of Singularity. So, when we are thinking about Aliens, we should also be thinking about a community of inorganics living together with organics: a community of Artificial Intellectuals.

1. That doesn't mean they are coming to earth. SPACE IS HUGE.
2. Some will be billions of years ahead, some behind. Again, this doesn't change the fact that SPACE IS HUGE.
3. We can try and contact them, but even with a system like Trappist 1, a conversation would take 80 years to get a reply, because, well, SPACE IS HUGE.
4. I'm sure, somewhere in the universe, there are alien scientists. But that doesn't mean they are watching us. Because... well, you know.
5. Yep. But this doesn't mean we are anywhere within reaching distance of them.
6. I don't even know how to respond to this.
7. Pure speculation.

So the main thrust of this is that sure, there are probably alien species out there, some of which will have followed a similar technological path to us, and some of those will be more advanced than us. But the more you invoke the "space is big, therefore they must be there" argument, the less likely it is we will have any contact with them. Because... SPACE IS HUGE.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
On 3/3/2018 at 4:37 AM, Citizen21 said:

It's irrational to assume nobody in the Universe would wanna harvest Earth resources (including humans).

What resources does the Earth have that could not be obtained from somewhere else ?

Water - Water is plentifull all across the universe. There is probably more water on Jupiters moon Europa than on Earth.

DNA - You could just as easily get genetic material from just collecting our "leavings". No need to take any humans at all. 

Food - What are the chances that aliens could even digest humans, or any other animals and plants for that matter ?

Raw materials - There are no elements present on Earth that is not obtainable on other planets and moons.

In addition Earths gravity well means that it would be a lot more expensive to get materials off the Earth than it would from a smaller planet or moon.

I'm not saying that there aren't any aliens, I don't know, but there really is no rationel need to fear them harvesting our resources. Most of them have been harvested by ourself anyway. :rolleyes:

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lost_shaman
On 3/2/2018 at 9:37 PM, Citizen21 said:

It's irrational to assume nobody in the Universe would wanna harvest Earth resources (including humans).

Excluding humans, what is there on Earth that you can't just harvest more easily from the Oort cloud or the Asteroid belt? 

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