PM May only has two Brexit options left

[Black Monk]

23 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Maybe there should be a do-over. 

Why? Because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go? I would argue that it's hardly democratic if you hold a vote again just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go.

Quote

I don't think a lot of people realized what it would actually mean. 

Well we've head that a lot from the Remainers - that the 17,410,742 who voted leave are thick and uneducated and didn't really know what they were voting for.

Well I'll tell you exactly what I voted for: To leave the European Union. And I shall appreciate it if the government respects what I voted for and carries it out.

Quote

 

And maybe this time, our billionaires could quit trying to influence folks over there.

They're in cahoots with Russian oligarchs, and I hope they aren't sitting on your power grid like they are over here. 

Wringing their fingers and waiting for that moment when you're no longer part of the EU.

 

Nobody, billionaire or otherwise, persuaded me to vote a certain way in the referendum. I made up my own mind years ago.

[Black Monk]

23 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Mercer was an activist in the campaign to pull the United Kingdom out of the European Union, also known as Brexit. Andy Wigmore, communications director of Leave.EU, said that Mercer donated the services of data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica to Nigel Farage, the head of the United Kingdom Independence Party. The firm was able to advise Leave.EU through its ability to harvest data from people's Facebook profiles in order to target them with individualized persuasive messages to vote for Brexit. However, Leave.EU did not inform the UK electoral commission of the donation despite the fact that a law demands that all donations valued over £7,500 must be reported.^[28]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mercer_(businessman)}

Of course, had Cambridge Analytica worked for the Remain side we'd never hear this nonsense now.

Of course, the Remain side didn't need Cambridge Analytica. They drafted in their own people to try to manipulate voters into voting a certain way - the likes of Blair, Obama, Lagarde, Carney etc. Only it didn't work: they told the British to vote Remain and they instead voted Leave.

It seems like it's okay for the Remainers to draft in people and organisations to try and persuade people to vote Remain but it's not so okay when Leavers draft in organisations to, supposedly, persuade people to vote Leave.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Black Monk

[RAyMO]

13 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

17,410,742

Yes they did - and though I believe it to have been a terrible outcome - which will do lasting harm to the economics of the working people in the UK  - I could be wrong. If so those 17,410,742 voters will have made a great decision and everybody will eventually be happy.

However, if they were wrong - and people who think as I do are right, then - it will lead to strive - but even that has a silver lining (for some admittedly).

So I am happy to wait and see.

[RAyMO]

10 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

Of course, had Cambridge Analytica worked for the Remain side we'd never hear this nonsense now.

I suspect the issue is more about CA alleged use of illegitimately obtained info rather than they just played a part and the donation wasn't declared.

Edited March 18, 2018 by RAyMO

[Black Monk]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Yes they did - and though I believe it to have been a terrible outcome - which will do lasting harm to the economics of the working people in the UK  - I could be wrong. If so those 17,410,742 voters will have made a great decision and everybody will eventually be happy.

However, if they were wrong - and people who think as I do are right, then - it will lead to strive - but even that has a silver lining (for some admittedly).

So I am happy to wait and see.

I would have been able to say exactly the same as what you have said had Remain, heaven forbid, won.

[RAyMO]

4 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

I would have been able to say exactly the same as what you have said had Remain, heaven forbid, won.

yes its the loser's prerogative 

[Black Monk]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

yes its the loser's prerogative 

But thankfully Leave won, and I would like the government to carry out that decision to the full. Otherwise I suspect a violent revolution.

[RAyMO]

14 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Otherwise I suspect a violent revolution.

I also suspect if things go south, so to speak, after Brexit, there will be a revolution - but I am hopeful it will be peaceful and democratic. 

[Black Monk]

1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

I also suspect if things go south, so to speak, after Brexit, there will be a revolution - but I am hopeful it will be peaceful and democratic. 

There wasn't a revolution on the several occasions the economy went south when we were IN the EU.

[RAyMO]

1 minute ago, Black Monk said:

There wasn't a revolution on the several occasions the economy went south when we were IN the EU.

Totally agree but if (I'll say that again) if the economy goes south while Europe continues North those regions which voted against Brexit, particularly Scotland will see it as an opportunity to revolt against continued membership the Union of the Kingdom. whether the revolt is successful or not is a different question.

[Black Monk]

Just now, RAyMO said:

 if the economy goes south while Europe continues North 

Unlikely.

Quote

those regions which voted against Brexit, particularly Scotland

Who cares? I certainly don't. I don't care if Scotland leaves the UK and joins the USSR.

[Black Monk]

It isn't Russia that destroyed British democracy

For our pro-EU political class to talk about national integrity is a sick joke

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/it-isnt-russia-that-destroyed-british-sovereignty/21229#.Wq-VtujFKUk

[Black Monk]

Two-faced Facebook frauds

There’s a tried-and-trusted way of not having all your personal information hacked on Facebook. Don’t do Facebook, or any other social media site.

So forgive me if I ignore the confected fury over Facebook data being used to target potential Donald Trump voters. The Guardian, in particular, is getting terribly excited.

If Hillary Clinton had won, we’d never have heard any more about it. In fact, when Obama was elected in 2008, he was hailed as a genius for the way in which his campaign used social media.

And in 2012, one publication carried this glowing report: ‘Barack Obama’s re-election team are building a vast digital data operation that for the first time combines a unified database on millions of Americans with the power of Facebook to target individual voters to a degree never achieved before.

‘Facebook is also being seen as a source of invaluable data on voters . . . thus allowing the campaign to access their personal data and add it to the central data store — the largest, most detailed and potentially most powerful in the history of political campaigns.’

That publication? Er, The Guardian. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5520823/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Britain-taken-leave-senses.html#ixzz5AHaGlnIF

 

 

[Ozymandias]

The 'echo chamber' that is social, and now even mainstream, media. Tell them what they want to hear and you can lead them by the nose. 

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Two-faced Facebook frauds

There’s a tried-and-trusted way of not having all your personal information hacked on Facebook. Don’t do Facebook, or any other social media site.

So forgive me if I ignore the confected fury over Facebook data being used to target potential Donald Trump voters. The Guardian, in particular, is getting terribly excited.

If Hillary Clinton had won, we’d never have heard any more about it. In fact, when Obama was elected in 2008, he was hailed as a genius for the way in which his campaign used social media.

And in 2012, one publication carried this glowing report: ‘Barack Obama’s re-election team are building a vast digital data operation that for the first time combines a unified database on millions of Americans with the power of Facebook to target individual voters to a degree never achieved before.

‘Facebook is also being seen as a source of invaluable data on voters . . . thus allowing the campaign to access their personal data and add it to the central data store — the largest, most detailed and potentially most powerful in the history of political campaigns.’

That publication? Er, The Guardian. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5520823/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Britain-taken-leave-senses.html#ixzz5AHaGlnIF

 

 

It is funny, the double standards they have with Trump, as your post/quote points out when Obama used social media it was lauded by the media, with no questions asked by the left, They said F.D Roosevelt used the media of Radio, J.F. Kennedy used Television and Obama Social media, Now the Left have been defeated on their own turf and by their own tactics they don't like it.

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

It is funny, the double standards they have with Trump, as your post/quote points out when Obama used social media it was lauded by the media, with no questions asked by the left, They said F.D Roosevelt used the media of Radio, J.F. Kennedy used Television and Obama Social media, Now the Left have been defeated on their own turf and by their own tactics they don't like it.

As a wise man once said...... 

[

[Space Commander Travis]

On 3/17/2018 at 3:52 PM, keithisco said:

Sorry, but I don't know where you hail from-I guess from your comment that it is somewhere in Continental Europe. 

You have to remember as far as Chaos is concerned, everything is the fault of Putin, Trump most of all.

[Space Commander Travis]

On 3/17/2018 at 3:55 PM, keithisco said:

Excuse my ignorance (genuine) but how does Putin control your energy grids and water supply?

he can do anything, including teleporting himself in person to sabotage water facilities all over the U.S. simultaneously. 

[Space Commander Travis]

On 3/17/2018 at 3:56 PM, ChaosRose said:

They hacked it all. 

 

On 3/17/2018 at 3:57 PM, ChaosRose said:

Also nuclear plants.

 

On 3/17/2018 at 3:57 PM, ChaosRose said:

We're *****d.

it rather looks like you'd been hitting the bottle rather when you contributed all this, I will say that much. What it has to do with brexit exactly seems tenuous at best. 

[Space Commander Travis]

On 3/19/2018 at 10:49 AM, RAyMO said:

Totally agree but if (I'll say that again) if the economy goes south while Europe continues North

Continues North, presumably meaning towards the sunlit uplands of prosperity? I think for the leading countries within Europe it's a bit optimistic to say that, let alone, if it was true, that the EU is to thank for it. The public mood in many of them, Germany and Italy certainly, doesn't seem quite as chirpy and cheerful as it might be. 

[Duke Wellington]

On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 7:31 AM, Captain Risky said:

Theresa May only has two Brexit options left: Capitulation to the EU or a second referendum

• May cannot get a Brexit deal through parliament that includes leaving the European customs union, according to Pantheon Macroeconomics analyst Samuel Tombs.
• Only staying inside the customs union solves the Irish border question to everyone’s satisfaction.
• Thus, May will eventually cave to a soft Brexit deal.
• She could force the issue by staging a second referendum with two options: Remain or Hard Brexit.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/theresa-may-is-heading-toward-inevitable-capitulation-to-the-eu-second-referendum-2018-3

Trade blocks protect themselves from outside competition by eliminating border costs between nations inside themselves. That means to compete effectively from outside against the firms inside then they need to be more innovative or cheaper. Hence we do not want any free trade agreements with anyone.

With such a strategy on its own the beginning would see low or stagnant growth in the UK economy. In essence, firms would find it harder to compete until they completed an adaption process where they moved to being more innovative or streamlined for cost efficiency. Then they have a competitive advantage and will take off. Why would they take off? Because those competitors inside the trading block are not exposed to the full competitive forces on the global stage and hence without the same pressures applied to them will lag behind when it comes to being innovative or cheap.

Of course while no free trade agreements is actually the best strategy to adopt (no matter how counter-intuitive that seems to those who dont know about economics) its not a approach we would adopt on its own anyway. Drum roll........... We are about to start phasing out austerity which will dramatically increase demand in the economy. Our GDP is still well behind where it would be if we had enjoyed 2.5% growth in our economy year on year from 2008 onwards. That is austerity and it corrects itself once its lifted.

Its a miracle, everything is landing at just the right time for the UK economy. We can offset any dip while our firms move towards being more innovative or cheaper by managing the level of demand in our economy. Done by lifting austerity off at a measured rate. I predict economic golden times for Britain in the 2020s.

Oh, and the IMF predications last week, the ones the Chancellor was very careful not to publically oppose, they are flawed. The lifting of austerity is not factored into them. The next Government, be it May or someone else, will be highly popular for producing economic good times. So long as that moron Corbyn doesnt get anywhere near it.

 

[Unusual Tournament]

 

At last, good news on Brexit: Britain is heading for Norway

The week has been full of hopeful signs. On Monday the EU’s Michel Barnier – a secret “Norwegian” – could not conceal his glee at his cobbled-together transition deal, nor could his British counterpart, David Davis.

The deal was a document of the most brutal realism. For now, the UK remains a non-participating member of the single market, with freedom of movement and right of settlement. Farmers and fishers are “as you were”. Britain can discuss “offshore” trade deals, but not agree them.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/22/brexit-britain-norway-theresa-may-transition-deal

[Unusual Tournament]

The smart money in Brussels was always on the Norway option. The so-called European Economic Area was a simple “off-the-shelf” basis for a bespoke deal with the UK. The challenge lay not in negotiating it but in overcoming Theresa May’s belief that her fate depended on some 50 backbench leavers and the editors of the Sun and the Daily Mail. She was terrified of them.

[Black Monk]

On 20/03/2018 at 2:00 PM, stevewinn said:

It is funny, the double standards they have with Trump, as your post/quote points out when Obama used social media it was lauded by the media, with no questions asked by the left, They said F.D Roosevelt used the media of Radio, J.F. Kennedy used Television and Obama Social media, Now the Left have been defeated on their own turf and by their own tactics they don't like it.

The Lefties think that anyone who doesn't vote for something lefty-liberal must be mentally ill or they have been robotically programmed by the likes of Cambridge Analytica to vote in such a way. They just can't get it that some people - the majority in the cases of Trump and Brexit - just don't agree with them and just vote the way they voted because they want to. Us 17.4 milliopn Bexit voters could only have voted the way we did because we had our little minds warped by the likes of Cambridge Analytica.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-great-cambridge-analytica-conspiracy-theory/

[Black Monk]

On 23/03/2018 at 4:38 AM, Captain Risky said:

 

At last, good news on Brexit: Britain is heading for Norway

The week has been full of hopeful signs. On Monday the EU’s Michel Barnier – a secret “Norwegian” – could not conceal his glee at his cobbled-together transition deal, nor could his British counterpart, David Davis.

The deal was a document of the most brutal realism. For now, the UK remains a non-participating member of the single market, with freedom of movement and right of settlement. Farmers and fishers are “as you were”. Britain can discuss “offshore” trade deals, but not agree them.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/22/brexit-britain-norway-theresa-may-transition-deal

Why do we have to have a Norway-style option? Why not a British-style option, in which we are a full, self-governing, sovereign state out of the single market and customs union, with all of our laws made within the UK, with an end to free movement and open borders?

After all, there was no Norway option until Norway got it.