Jump to content
Unexplained Mysteries uses cookies. By using the site you consent to our use of cookies as per our Cookie Policy.
Close X
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
UM-Bot

AATIP has sparked a renewed interest in UFOs

45 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Fila
2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

well that's bleeding obvious- we all know that- so what else is there? how are we supposed to 'discover' alien life on this planet if there's nothing more than a story to go by?

It is obvious. It was in response to when you said UFO cases are always just going to be stories. I agreed that's all they are.., and that we shouldn't make a conclusion based on an observation. We cannot say its an ET. But.., we also cannot say it doesn't exist simply because it currently has not been tested or measured correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Timonthy

@Fila, your posts, while reasonably eloquent, scream of ignorance.

Something has piqued your interest in this topic, but like a child who has just learnt something new, you’re screaming it at the top of your lungs like you’re the first person on Earth to comprehend it. The problem being that pretty much everything you post is a regurgitation of numerous people before you. 

I consider myself young (lol). I’ve had a reasonable interest in UFO/ET (and paranormal/cryptozoology etc.) related things for 20+ years, and maybe it’s a good thing that I didn’t have access to an Internet forum like this when I was in my early to mid teens. But the reality is that with the internet as it is, and the ‘best’ and ‘most compelling’ UFO/ET cases at keyboards reach to billions, that there’s really no reasonable reason anymore to believe that that there’s ever been ET/UFO presence on our planet. 

Your posts, although seemingly quite neutral, welcome ridicule because of this. And the high stance you’ve taken from the beginning here at UM adds to this. 

I debunk things because I want to find something compelling which can’t debunked. I’m still waiting for that to happen but am not holding my breath. 

Of course continue the input, and I commend the effort, but begin to distinguish the relevant from the irrelevant. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dejarma
10 minutes ago, Fila said:

It is obvious. It was in response to when you said UFO cases are always just going to be stories. I agreed that's all they are.., and that we shouldn't make a conclusion based on an observation. We cannot say its an ET. But.., we also cannot say it doesn't exist simply because it currently has not been tested or measured correctly.

fair enough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
toast
27 minutes ago, Fila said:

We cannot say a UFO is ET owned, simply from an observation.

If we would observe an ET craft at little distance, we would know very quickly that it is an ET craft.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Timonthy said:

@Fila, your posts, while reasonably eloquent, scream of ignorance.

Something has piqued your interest in this topic, but like a child who has just learnt something new, you’re screaming it at the top of your lungs like you’re the first person on Earth to comprehend it. The problem being that pretty much everything you post is a regurgitation of numerous people before you. 

Thank you. Sorry about being a noob. I do try and search the forum before posting.., but I'll try harder.

8 hours ago, Timonthy said:

I consider myself young (lol). I’ve had a reasonable interest in UFO/ET (and paranormal/cryptozoology etc.) related things for 20+ years, and maybe it’s a good thing that I didn’t have access to an Internet forum like this when I was in my early to mid teens. But the reality is that with the internet as it is, and the ‘best’ and ‘most compelling’ UFO/ET cases at keyboards reach to billions, that there’s really no reasonable reason anymore to believe that that there’s ever been ET/UFO presence on our planet. 

Thats a long time. I don't want to have to go through all that either.., that's why I'd like to make some type of study guide that will help people like me from going through the same motions.

8 hours ago, Timonthy said:

Your posts, although seemingly quite neutral, welcome ridicule because of this. And the high stance you’ve taken from the beginning here at UM adds to this. 

That sux. I personally don't treat newcommers this way because I am into having everyone catch up on the same level. Not sure why this is a thing.., but I'd like to know why.

8 hours ago, Timonthy said:

I debunk things because I want to find something compelling which can’t debunked. I’m still waiting for that to happen but am not holding my breath. 

Yea.., I actually have a lot respect for people like you who at least look into UFOs. Everyone I know personally has no interest in anything apart from television, music and social discussions. I think ghosts, aliens, spirits are some of the biggest topics in life.., yet we focus on money or fame and how others perceive us.

8 hours ago, Timonthy said:

Of course continue the input, and I commend the effort, but begin to distinguish the relevant from the irrelevant. 

I'm always open to learning new things. I'd appreciate any advice you can give me.

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
On 06/03/2018 at 7:49 AM, Fila said:

Kean also hopes that the reveal will help reduce the stigma of conducting research in to UFOs. "Professional people feel like they're going to be laughed at, and it's the same problem for scientists and academic institutions and universities and research facilities who want to work on this topic, but they feel that it would be detrimental to their careers," she said.

I am finding this to be the biggest issue with looking into UFOs. I think this is an interesting topic to discuss in itself.., but don't want to offend anyone or start flame wars. The fact that offending people and starting flame wars is a real threat also shows how emotional the conversation about UFOs and aliens can get. Very strange...

Its utter nonsense though, typical Kean drama, she's not talking about UFOS she's talking about people claiming alien spaceships. Book sales must need a boost. :sleepy:

She doesn't seem interested in real research at all, she just likes to collect stories and wind up the zealots. She's all about stirring the pot not resolving anything. 

If there was real evidence there wouldn't be any form of ridicule, there would be celebration. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Timonthy
2 hours ago, Fila said:

(1)Thank you. Sorry about being a noob. I do try and search the forum before posting.., but I'll try harder.

(2)Thats a long time. I don't want to have to go through all that either.., that's why I'd like to make some type of study guide that will help people like me from going through the same motions.

(3)That sux. I personally don't treat newcommers this way because I am into having everyone catch up on the same level. Not sure why this is a thing.., but I'd like to know why.

(4)Yea.., I actually have a lot respect for people like you who at least look into UFOs. Everyone I know personally has no interest in anything apart from television, music and social discussions. I think ghosts, aliens, spirits are some of the biggest topics in life.., yet we focus on money or fame and how others perceive us.

(5)I'm always open to learning new things. I'd appreciate any advice you can give me.

I really appreciate how you have responded, especially because my post could have easily been taken as an attack. I've numbered your reply so that I can more easily reply.

(1) Don't feel bad about being a 'noob'. The forum search is horrible, it's better to Google 'unexplained mysteries.com .....'

(2) 20+ years for me is considered amateur hour for others. I don't see a conceivable way that you can introduce someone to such a deep topic in a short time. The only kind of 'study guide' you could present would have to tell people to dig deep for a long time.

(3) It is simply implausible to think that people will catch up on the same level. It does take years.

(4) The fact that we are alive is enough. Explanations of the natural world are beautiful and amazing

(5) I'd probably just suggest you watch some old-school UFO documentaries. That's when it started to click for me that the believers arguments were actually rubbish.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
preacherman76
13 hours ago, Timonthy said:

@Fila, your posts, while reasonably eloquent, scream of ignorance.

Something has piqued your interest in this topic, but like a child who has just learnt something new, you’re screaming it at the top of your lungs like you’re the first person on Earth to comprehend it. The problem being that pretty much everything you post is a regurgitation of numerous people before you. 

I consider myself young (lol). I’ve had a reasonable interest in UFO/ET (and paranormal/cryptozoology etc.) related things for 20+ years, and maybe it’s a good thing that I didn’t have access to an Internet forum like this when I was in my early to mid teens. But the reality is that with the internet as it is, and the ‘best’ and ‘most compelling’ UFO/ET cases at keyboards reach to billions, that there’s really no reasonable reason anymore to believe that that there’s ever been ET/UFO presence on our planet. 

Your posts, although seemingly quite neutral, welcome ridicule because of this. And the high stance you’ve taken from the beginning here at UM adds to this

I debunk things because I want to find something compelling which can’t debunked. I’m still waiting for that to happen but am not holding my breath. 

Of course continue the input, and I commend the effort, but begin to distinguish the relevant from the irrelevant. 

Thank you for pointing this out. Its completely true. This place is literally run by people who's only goal is to ridicule anyone who says UFO's could be real. Fila didn't even make a claim on aliens or any of the other crazy things. The mere suggestion that some of the thousands of UFO stories told by people might have some credibility, makes that person the subject of ridicule. Here of all places. That is not being skeptical, that is being cynical. Either you 100% believe every UFO story is wrong or fake or whatever, or you are not deserving of respect. Again, here of all places. Why cant a person be worthy of respect, even when they don't believe as you do?

Let me let you in on something, from the standard set, you will never find what you claim to be looking for here. You said it yourself, so you already know this. That leads me to believe that you are here to look for people who "welcome ridicule" so that they can be ridiculed.  Actually I don't mean to point this towards you, but to the many members who have chased away any actual discussion of UFO's.

Take this very thread. The topic is a renewed interest in UFO's because of recent events. I don't believe there is a single post in here that's actually on topic. It started right out and has continued with person attacks, first on the author of the article, then on the one person who has respectfully as they could tried to bring some life to the thread.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, toast said:

If we would observe an ET craft at little distance, we would know very quickly that it is an ET craft.

I have often wondered about this. If I saw strange symbols.., I'd just assume it was Chinese or Russian.

How close would it need to be? How would you be able to tell? What characteristics would make it different from an unknown Chinese owned aircraft that uses the Earth's gravity to hover silently.., allowing them to completely change the shape to focus more on avoiding radar or something along those lines.

I am not 100% sure we could technically / legally say with certainty who owns an aircraft just by observing it at 'X' distance.

Perhaps that is China's strategy. Just make their helicopters shaped like some classic UFO. When people report the "objects" and take pics.., we just laugh at them.., lol. I'm just kidding.

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its utter nonsense though, typical Kean drama, she's not talking about UFOS she's talking about people claiming alien spaceships. Book sales must need a boost. :sleepy:

She doesn't seem interested in real research at all, she just likes to collect stories and wind up the zealots. She's all about stirring the pot not resolving anything. 

That's not good. If she is being biased.., then she lacks the education required to research a topic properly. Perhaps she is talking about professional scientists being dissuaded.., and not herself?

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

If there was real evidence there wouldn't be any form of ridicule, there would be celebration. 

I know hey. The lack of evidence is appalling for a topic with almost 80 years worth of data. I'm clinging on to the 'what if' part. Seeing as this stuff is similar to ball lightning.., I feel it has not been studied and measured properly. There is a real potential for someone to make a new discovery.., or at the least disprove it once and for all. And I'm going to jump on it.

Edited by Fila
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dejarma
9 minutes ago, Fila said:

I feel it has not been studied and measured properly

what's the proper way to study & measure it?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

I really appreciate how you have responded, especially because my post could have easily been taken as an attack. I've numbered your reply so that I can more easily reply.

Thank you. I can easily get triggered into anger so its nice to have a calm discussion. I can see that you are not being rude.., you are just straight to the point, and don't have the time to sugar coat words.

18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

(1) Don't feel bad about being a 'noob'. The forum search is horrible, it's better to Google 'unexplained mysteries.com .....'

I noticed that... but I keep trying. Thank you for the advice. Google always has the best search abilities.., its hard for websites to keep up I guess. I'll do that from now on.

18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

(2) 20+ years for me is considered amateur hour for others. I don't see a conceivable way that you can introduce someone to such a deep topic in a short time. The only kind of 'study guide' you could present would have to tell people to dig deep for a long time.

That is so true. The subject is massive and has so many avenues you could take depending on what data you look at. I.e. watching Ancient Aliens and YouTube clips, compared to reading de-classified documents from the national archives and looking into scientific studies of the subject (or lack thereof). But then I guess there are so many levels.., that it seems some have accepted that UFO are ET.., and have waaaaaay different conversations than we would ever have. I am trying to get into those far-out conversations assuming UFOs are ET.., just as a "what if" scenario for fun. (I.e. If UFOs are ET then why are they here.., and how can we defeat them if needed?)

I'm glad you are liking this forum. I am loving it too. We should have a moderator appreciation day once a year :) Its the best way to discuss topics that are considered taboo or idiotic in public. The internet has changed the world for the better by reducing myths and superstitions.., allowing us to google anything we want. 

18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

(3) It is simply implausible to think that people will catch up on the same level. It does take years.

Yea you are probably right. What kind of advice would you give me and others coming into this? I have started writing a 'Study Guide' and think you might be able to contribute if interested.

18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

(4) The fact that we are alive is enough. Explanations of the natural world are beautiful and amazing

Hells yea man. You seem really cool hey. 

18 hours ago, Timonthy said:

(5) I'd probably just suggest you watch some old-school UFO documentaries. That's when it started to click for me that the believers arguments were actually rubbish.

I have realised how and why the believers are wrong.., but only because they have accepted something that has not been scientifically proven.

But then I also have an urge to help people who do claim things. I am one of those "world peace" type people who wants to end all pain and suffering for everyone. In this day and age.., with our technolgy and resources.., that should be an achievable goal. Even if (real) UFOs are nothing but hallucinations, At least they deserve an investigation out of respect. We need to end this once and for all.., if not for us but them.

Those people who are consumed by it and cannot function in daily life. This forum could be the tool to discover something really cool (albeit some mental disorder) and would go down in the history books showing how it was accomplished.

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Fila said:

That's not good. If she is being biased.., then she lacks the education required to research a topic properly.

She's a journalist. No scientific background. Her forte is exaggeration. 

She doesn't investigate the phenomena, she seeks out tall tales, writes books about them and attacks real scientists to create controversy, she's just another rubbish UFOlogist. 

Quote

Perhaps she is talking about professional scientists being dissuaded.., and not herself?

She is just making things up again. Think about it, scientists already are very familiar with scientific method and how to prove something. If they have evidence they know the best way to present it. The myth that they fear reprisal just doesn't make sense.

The only ones who are not coming forward are zealous claimants who know they can't fill that criteria. There are kooky scientists believe it or not, scientists are people too and have quirks like anyone. Many of them are at JSE which just happens to be where Kean lurks. 

The Hessdalen project is not the subject of ridicule at all and it's devoted to real UFOs and has plenty of them on record. Some of the descriptions are downright bizarre and well match the description of that which some claim to be spaceships. 

Quote

I know hey. The lack of evidence is appalling for a topic with almost 80 years worth of data. I'm clinging on to the 'what if' part. Seeing as this stuff is similar to ball lightning.., I feel it has not been studied and measured properly.

Its getting there, there is no point in being impatient. The studies done were considering UFOs as spaceships. The was a huge stumbling block for a start. The investigators had to wade through mountains of ridiculous claims for decades. We are only starting to get over that mountain of a hurdle to consider real world explanations and study Arial plasmas and other aspects of meteorology where real answers lie. 

Not as exciting as alien spaceships sure, and that's why progress has slowed. It's just not as interesting to most. 

Quote

There is a real potential for someone to make a new discovery.., or at the least disprove it once and for all. And I'm going to jump on it.

I think groups like the one at Hessdalen are going to be the fore runners here, if your really interested in the phenomenon it would pay to be very familiar with the work being done there and other earth light studies. They are often seen at volcanoes indicating there are likely to be geological processes involved, possibly a piezo type of reaction. 

And as I've suggested before there's always Google Scholar to keep you busy 

Arial plasmas are pretty interesting if one can be bothered to wade through the lengthy papers written on it. 

Edited by psyche101
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChrLzs
On 09/03/2018 at 7:31 AM, Fila said:

The lack of evidence is appalling for a topic with almost 80 years worth of data.

This sentence speaks volumes, Fila.  Think about why you said it.......  "Appalling"?  Why?

First up, there is plenty of evidence for UFOs, when you use the correct definition.  Lots of stuff never gets positively identified - that's the nature of bad recordings of distant lights in the sky, often taken by inexperienced observers...

None of that 'data' shows anything conclusively non-terrestrial.  So even if we change the definition of UFO to one that you like....

..  if there is no evidence (as you seem to concede) of 'it', be 'it' aliens/interdimensionals/insertwhatever.... why on earth would you be appalled, unless desperate for your fantasies to be fulfilled?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hawkin
On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, Dejarma said:

yet people STILL pay to hear her speak! Therefore people like her will STILL carry on..

This is & always will be the problem with this enigma. This is the reason this subject still exists= there's money to be earned 

It would seem there's money to be made on both sides. Michael Shermer (Skeptic Magazine) Net Worth.

https://networthpost.com/net-worth/michael-shermer-net-worth/ 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dejarma
12 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

It would seem there's money to be made on both sides.

yep, everyone's happy- oh joy;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2018 at 9:02 PM, ChrLzs said:

This sentence speaks volumes, Fila.  Think about why you said it.......  "Appalling"?  Why?

First up, there is plenty of evidence for UFOs, when you use the correct definition.  Lots of stuff never gets positively identified - that's the nature of bad recordings of distant lights in the sky, often taken by inexperienced observers...

Hi ChrLzs. I am using the term UFOs to refer to cases that are yet to be positively identified. We are discussing the correct use here and would appreciate any input you have. (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314101-redefining-the-term-ufo/)

I think the lack of evidence is due to the event still being in the "observation" stage. Until 1980 with Hessdallen's scientific observatory.., the Airforce and Universities have relied on witness testimonies and reports. Kinda lame and weak imo. https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/UFOs/dod174.pdf 

On 3/11/2018 at 9:02 PM, ChrLzs said:

None of that 'data' shows anything conclusively non-terrestrial.  So even if we change the definition of UFO to one that you like....

I don't want to change it to one that suits me only.

I think the acronym is ambiguous and just adds to the mixed up discussions we have about alleged sightings from credible sources about flying objects like glowing orbs, metallic discs and triangle shaped with no apparent exhausts, wings or fuselage which out perform any object known to man even by today's standards.., from reputable observers trained in identifying aircraft and familiar with astronomical and terrestrial effects. (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314152-the-best-evidence-for-ufos/)

On 3/11/2018 at 9:02 PM, ChrLzs said:

..  if there is no evidence (as you seem to concede) of 'it', be 'it' aliens/interdimensionals/insertwhatever.... why on earth would you be appalled, unless desperate for your fantasies to be fulfilled?

There is no scientific evidence due to a lack of proper scientific inquiry.

To say ball lightning doesn't exist.., we need more than stories (observations) to disprove it. For example. ("Hmm, Jed is not a reputable scientist because he drinks on weekends or something".., rather than setting up tests to check the data). I'm all for disproving "it" (whatever people report as being something that does not match the characteristics of any known objects man mad or natural). I might actually make that my main hypothesis to work with.., but it needs to be done properly once and for all.

Deff need to set up a team to look further into the hallucination hypothesis (see below)., while also playing devil's advocate and setting up an observation station in a known "UFO hot spot".

 

- Alien abduction: a medical hypothesis. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18834282

In response to a new psychological study of persons who believe they have been abducted by space aliens that found that sleep paralysis, a history of being hypnotized, and preoccupation with the paranormal and extraterrestrial were predisposing experiences, I noted that many of the frequently reported particulars of the abduction experience bear more than a passing resemblance to medical-surgical procedures and propose that experience with these may also be contributory. There is the altered state of consciousness, uniformly colored figures with prominent eyes, in a high-tech room under a round bright saucerlike object; there is nakedness, pain and a loss of control while the body's boundaries are being probed; and yet the figures are thought benevolent. No medical-surgical history was apparently taken in the above mentioned study, but psychological laboratory work evaluated false memory formation. I discuss problems in assessing intraoperative awareness and ways in which the medical hypothesis could be elaborated and tested. If physicians are causing this syndrome in a percentage of patients, we should know about it; and persons who feel they have been abducted should be encouraged to inform their surgeons and anesthesiologists without challenging their beliefs.

 

- Alien abduction experiences: Some clues from neuropsychology and neuropsychiatry. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571535

Many thousands of people around the world firmly believe that they have been abducted by alien beings and taken on board spaceships where they have been subjected to painful medical examination.

METHOD: Given that such accounts are almost certainly untrue, four areas of neuroscience are considered with respect to possible clues that may lead towards a fuller understanding of the alien abduction experience.

RESULTS: First, it is argued that sleep paralysis may be implicated in many such claims. Second, research into false memories is considered. It is argued that abductees may be more prone to false memories than the general population. Third, evidence is considered relating to the mental health of abductees. It is concluded that there is currently no convincing evidence for higher rates of serious psychopathology amongst abductees compared to the general population. However, abductees do seem to show higher levels on some potentially relevant measures (e.g., tendency to dissociate). Finally, claims that alien abduction experiences may be linked to abnormal activity in the temporal lobes is considered.

CONCLUSION: Although the neurosciences provide many clues to the nature of this bizarre experience, further research is required before a full understanding will be attained.

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stereologist

The call for better research or different into UFOs reminds me of astrology. When something like astrology is shown to be wrong there is the refrain, "You didn't do it right." Here we have the suggestion that " There is no scientific evidence due to a lack of proper scientific inquiry. " Is that correct? I think this is just another effort to apply the old astrology logic to research into UFOs. Unlike astrology the idea is that the data collection is wrong rather than the experiment set up by the researcher being wrong.

What is readily apparent is that even when simple ideas such as the ground speed of the Phoenix Lights is presented time after time after time after time, there is the repeated falsehood that the lights moved slowly. Instead of relying on the verifiable ground speed calculation there is the unscientific appeal that some witness some place claimed the lights moved slowly.

There is a great example of the unscientific approach to UFOs. This is called cherry picking.

On the one hand we have the appeal to better research but in reality we have a complete disregard for science. Pathetic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2018 at 0:23 AM, stereologist said:

The call for better research or different into UFOs reminds me of astrology. When something like astrology is shown to be wrong there is the refrain, "You didn't do it right." Here we have the suggestion that " There is no scientific evidence due to a lack of proper scientific inquiry. " Is that correct? I think this is just another effort to apply the old astrology logic to research into UFOs. Unlike astrology the idea is that the data collection is wrong rather than the experiment set up by the researcher being wrong.

Yes. If people keep saying they have seen something.., then I guess that is means to look into it. Not ignore it. Especially if these people are so adamant they've seen something. Don't worry about money. It wouldn't be government funded by tax. Probs end up being a university thesis or private company / GoFundMe type thingy.

I'm all for it hey. Screw the old ways of saying no. Let's have a go hey?

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2018 at 8:41 AM, Dejarma said:

what's the proper way to study & measure it?

I know everyone is sick of hearing it.., but something like the Hessdalen observation station. http://www.hessdalen.org

http://www.hessdalen.org

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stereologist
On 3/31/2018 at 4:49 AM, Fila said:

Yes. If people keep saying they have seen something.., then I guess that is means to look into it. Not ignore it. Especially if these people are so adamant they've seen something. Don't worry about money. It wouldn't be government funded by tax. Probs end up being a university thesis or private company / GoFundMe type thingy.

I'm all for it hey. Screw the old ways of saying no. Let's have a go hey?

None of this addresses my statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.