Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[LV-426]

Critically ill man is former Russian spy

"A man who is critically ill after being exposed to an unknown substance in Wiltshire is a Russian national convicted of spying for Britain, the BBC understands.

Sergei Skripal, who is 66, was granted refuge in the UK following a "spy swap" between the US and Russia in 2010.

He and a woman, 33, were found unconscious on a bench at a shopping centre in Salisbury on Sunday afternoon.

The substance has not been identified."

Alexander Litvinenko 2.0 anyone?

[Space Commander Travis]

In Salisbury, apparently. Salisbury?! Putin's Fingers of Evil stretch as far as there?! 

 

* Actually Salisbury is not a million miles from Porton Down, the wellknown chemical weapons research facility. Read into that whatever anyone wants to .. 

[+and-then]

34 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

In Salisbury, apparently. Salisbury?! Putin's Fingers of Evil stretch as far as there?! 

 

* Actually Salisbury is not a million miles from Porton Down, the wellknown chemical weapons research facility. Read into that whatever anyone wants to .. 

Just curious, Vlad, do you think Putin is just another world leader and that he answers to the voters in Russia?

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't subscribe to the theory that he's Satan, if that's what you're angling towards. 

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

I don't subscribe to the theory that he's Satan, if that's what you're angling towards. 

I didn't imply that he is.  My question was a simple one.

[Grey Area]

I maybe wrong, I haven’t studied Putin in any great detail, but from what I do know I think he is a very dangerous man.

I think above everything else he is an absolute patriot, I don’t think he wants to return to the old Stalin ways, but I think he has a vision of Russia that includes the military dominance of the post WW2 era and the Cold War.  

I think he is absolutely certain of his ability to lead and will do what he deems appropriate to ensure his vision of Russia is realised, and to a certain extent is not afraid of criticism from the rest of the world, because where he sits, the rest of the world don’t elect him.

Putin is a driven man, he served 2 terms as president, and then prime minister, to then return to the presidency for a third term, if he gets a fourth term, it will be his last, but it will be interesting to see how willing he is to step down after that.

I also think he has a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire called Lucille.

[LV-426]

31 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

I also think he has a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire called Lucille.

Sorry, it's a serious subject, but you gave me a good laugh with that one

[LV-426]

As to Putin, I think he's someone who shouldn't be underestimated.

I'm not a person who expects to uncover a red plot every time I open a cupboard, but there's no denying that Russia seems to have her fingers in some dodgy pies.

Whether it's assassinations, cyber attacks, election tampering, state-sponsored doping, involvement in the Ukraine and Syria, there's plenty to make sure other nations remain vigilant.

Are other countries involved in such activities? Likely. But - outside of North Korea - those nations aren't giving presentations of warheads being dropped on Florida...

As a nation, I'd like to have good relations with Russia, but I wouldn't be letting my guard down.

[+and-then]

17 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

As to Putin, I think he's someone who shouldn't be underestimated.

I'm not a person who expects to uncover a red plot every time I open a cupboard, but there's no denying that Russia seems to have her fingers in some dodgy pies.

Whether it's assassinations, cyber attacks, election tampering, state-sponsored doping, involvement in the Ukraine and Syria, there's plenty to make sure other nations remain vigilant.

Are other countries involved in such activities? Likely. But - outside of North Korea - those nations aren't giving presentations of warheads being dropped on Florida...

As a nation, I'd like to have good relations with Russia, but I wouldn't be letting my guard down.

I believe he's a patriot but I also believe he's capable of using crime boss strategies to maintain and grow his personal power.  He's also a street fighter, literally.  He got kicked out of that portion of "spy school" that would have made him eligible for work in the West after he took on 5 guys in a street fight.  They broke his arm but not before he delivered a beat down on 3 of them.  A guy like that with the final decision on a game of nuclear chicken is a frightening prospect.  ESPECIALLY when he'd be going up against a man like Trump.  

As to his new "invincible, undetectable weapons" that can elude current AND FUTURE defenses... that's just a ridiculous statement and it's a bit troubling that the average Russian voter would fall for such rhetoric.

[bee]

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43295134

Eyewitness Freya Church told the BBC it looked like the two people had taken "something quite strong".

She said: "On the bench there was a couple, an older guy and a younger girl. She was sort of leant in on him, it looked like she had passed out maybe.

"He was doing some strange hand movements, looking up to the sky...

"They looked so out of it I thought even if I did step in I wasn't sure how I could help."

googling this story the three main reports on Google's list are from the BBC, Independent and Guardian --
three media outlets spearheading anti Brexit / anti Trump stuff....which is all woven in to the anti Russian stuff --

it all seems just a little too convenient to me for this to happen now...

If it wasn't just a drug taking incident gone wrong (perhaps the young woman worked for either the Russians OR the British..?)
Then it could just as easily have been the British doing the dirty deed to make it look like the Russians did the dirty deed... 

Oh yes.... I've read Spycatcher you know and the shenanigans that the Intelligence Services  get up to is not at all straightforward
or easy to assess at the best of times.... 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

  

 

7 hours ago, and then said:

I didn't imply that he is.  My question was a simple one.

your question was suggesting that he was the global Satan, something that people in this thread clearly seem to agree with.  

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

  

 

your question was suggesting that he was the global Satan, something that people in this thread clearly seem to agree with.  

That might have been your take on it but I assure you that wasn't where I was headed.  I don't think the guy's the worst threat on the globe but I also don't think he's as harmless and altruistic as you seem to believe him to be.

Edited March 6, 2018 by and then

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, LV-426 said:

I'm not a person who expects to uncover a red plot every time I open a cupboard, but there's no denying that Russia seems to have her fingers in some dodgy pies.

Whether it's assassinations, cyber attacks, election tampering, state-sponsored doping, involvement in the Ukraine and Syria, there's plenty to make sure other nations remain vigilant.

really? election tampering? $10,000 worth of ads on Facebook? Or do you mean He (it has to be spelled in capital letters) was the one who intercepted the Democrats' emails to spread foul libels about Hillary. Involvement in Ukraine and Syria? Like the CIA and the State Department, you mean?  

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, Grey Area said:

Putin is a driven man, he served 2 terms as president, and then prime minister, to then return to the presidency for a third term, if he gets a fourth term, it will be his last, but it will be interesting to see how willing he is to step down after that.

It's even worse than the New Stalin. He's the New Trump! 

[LV-426]

4 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

really? election tampering? $10,000 worth of ads on Facebook? Or do you mean He (it has to be spelled in capital letters) was the one who intercepted the Democrats' emails to spread foul libels about Hillary. Involvement in Ukraine and Syria? Like the CIA and the State Department, you mean?  

My apologies Vlad, Putin is obviously an angel.

I'm sure he's having a cup of tea with his buddy Assad as we speak, politely asking him to stop using chlorine gas on civilians in Eastern Ghouta.

I'm not unrealistic. There's a whole lot of unsavoury things that go on in global politics, but honestly, the way you leap on the defensive whenever Russia enters the discussion...

 

Anyway... as an update to this thread:

Russian spy: Sergei Skripal collapsed alongside daughter

"The woman found slumped on a shopping centre bench alongside a former Russian agent convicted of spying for Britain is his daughter, it has emerged.

Yulia Skripal, in her 30s, and father Sergei, 66, are critically ill in hospital after being found unconscious in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on Sunday."

[LV-426]

10 hours ago, and then said:

As to his new "invincible, undetectable weapons" that can elude current AND FUTURE defenses... that's just a ridiculous statement and it's a bit troubling that the average Russian voter would fall for such rhetoric.

I'm not enough of a military expert to be able to judge, but yes... the "future" part was pretty hilarious

It's not so much the actual weapon capabilities that struck me with this story, it was the use of Florida in the presentation.

I'd prefer to see an end to this cold war style bravado crap, if we're ever going to find a way to live peacefully together on this rock.

[RoofGardener]

Why would Putin wan't to kill Sergei Skripal ? He was a spy. He was caught, sentenced by a Russian court, and imprisoned in a Russian prison. He was released as part of a spy swap.

Why kill him now, and in such a cack-handed and obvious way ? I don't see how it would give any advantage to the Russians, whilst at the same time it would cause a diplomatic incident.

[LV-426]

12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Why would Putin wan't to kill Sergei Skripal ? He was a spy. He was caught, sentenced by a Russian court, and imprisoned in a Russian prison. He was released as part of a spy swap.

Why kill him now, and in such a cack-handed and obvious way ? I don't see how it would give any advantage to the Russians, whilst at the same time it would cause a diplomatic incident.

Why was Litvinenko killed?

He was also held in Russia prior to seeking asylum in Britain, albeit not imprisoned at the time of his flight.

There's not enough evidence in this case yet, but it seems to me that if it's proven to be an assassination attempt, you either buy into state-sponsorship by Russia, or buy into bee's theory of this being the doing of our own government or that of our allies.

I know where my money is.

It's also worth pointing out at this stage that Skripal and his daughter are still alive, but critically ill. With luck they may pull through.

I haven't seen anything official, but the news article I saw this morning suggested the agent used may not have been radiological, but a VX nerve agent similar to that used on Kim Jong-nam. It might be identified as early as this afternoon according to the same source.

[RoofGardener]

4 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Why was Litvinenko killed?

He was also held in Russia prior to seeking asylum in Britain, albeit not imprisoned at the time of his flight.

There's not enough evidence in this case yet, but it seems to me that if it's proven to be an assassination attempt, you either buy into state-sponsorship by Russia, or buy into bee's theory of this being the doing of our own government or that of our allies.

I know where my money is.

It's also worth pointing out at this stage that Skripal and his daughter are still alive, but critically ill. With luck they may pull through.

I haven't seen anything official, but the news article I saw this morning suggested the agent used may not have been radiological, but a VX nerve agent similar to that used on Kim Jong-nam. It might be identified as early as this afternoon according to the same source.

Litvinenko was an ongoing embarrassment to the Russian State, writing books and articles about aspects of the State (and particularly under Putin's reign) that portrayed them in a very bad light. He was a campaigner. He also escaped "justice" in Russia by fleeing  prior to trial. (itself an embarrassing act).

Skripal hasn't done this. He has been very quiet.

[LV-426]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

Skripal hasn't done this. He has been very quiet.

Publicly quiet. We don't know what he may have been involved in beyond that.

One thing is for sure, if it's proved to be an attempted assassination, someone considers his or his daughters death as valuable enough to risk further deterioration of British/Russian relations:

Russian spy: Boris Johnson warns Kremlin over Salisbury incident

"The UK would respond "robustly" to any evidence of Russian involvement in the collapse of former spy Sergei Skripal, Boris Johnson has said.

Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, in her 30s, are critically ill in hospital after being found unconscious in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on Sunday.

The foreign secretary said he was not pointing fingers at this stage, but described Russia as "a malign and disruptive force".

Russia has denied any involvement."

[ExpandMyMind]

5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Why would Putin wan't to kill Sergei Skripal ? He was a spy. He was caught, sentenced by a Russian court, and imprisoned in a Russian prison. He was released as part of a spy swap.

Why kill him now, and in such a cack-handed and obvious way ? I don't see how it would give any advantage to the Russians, whilst at the same time it would cause a diplomatic incident.

Could be a show of power. Both to his own people (rather, oligarchs) and to the west. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Could be a show of power. Both to his own people (rather, oligarchs) and to the west. 

The UK is full of Russian ex-pats, so maybe you’re right, it’s a “two birds” job. He sends a “You are not safe, play nice” message and takes out a minor embarrassment at the same time.

[Space Commander Travis]

Is see the blustering little idiot Boris, with his hair flying wildly and spittle flying from his mouth, is promising a Robust Response. Like remind us why this is any business of Theresa may's shambolic "government"? It's the busienss for the police, so leave them to it. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[ExpandMyMind]

18 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The UK is full of Russian ex-pats, so maybe you’re right, it’s a “two birds” job. He sends a “You are not safe, play nice” message and takes out a minor embarrassment at the same time.

He also has an election coming up, for which he has been throwing his weight around quite a bit already.

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

He also has an election coming up, for which he has been throwing his weight around quite a bit already.

What odds do you rekon i'll get on him winning?