Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[hetrodoxly]

17 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-infuriates-house-of-commons-with-russia-response

"Corbyn infuriates Commons by asking some rational questions rather than standing up and waving his little Union Jack as Ms. May, Empress of Britain and All her Dominions, announces the Mobilization of the Fleet and that the March on Moscow will commence no later than Monday. Just as long as there hasn't been any snow.  "

A prospective leader of the UK should 'wave his little Union Jack' at all times and to give succour to a country who may have committed such an aggressive attack on it's soil is unforgivable.

[hetrodoxly]

7 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Oh most definitely. This is an unwise move in every sense of the word if 'Russia', that is Putin's admin, is behind it. That doesnt fit the pattern, Russian pieces were played brilliantly until now, in a defenise fashion, but highly effective. Most if not all offensive actions have come from the West, demonization efforts at full blast, for months now. Why would Russia throw oil on the already sprakling fire by enaging in this assassination with a weapon that has her fingerprints all over it?

Didnt you ever watch Columbo? Come on.

They've cut the horses head off and left it in the bed and they want everyone to know who done it.

[Farmer77]

7 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

They've cut the horses head off and left it in the bed and they want everyone to know who done it.

Very good analogy and since this comes hot on the heels of Putin announcing their new military technology it seems quite plausible. 

 

[LV-426]

29 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Very good analogy and since this comes hot on the heels of Putin announcing their new military technology it seems quite plausible.

Also, given that it's election time in Russia, even though it's a foregone conclusion that Putin will win, there's nothing like uniting the Russian people behind him with "Us versus the West" Cold War style propaganda.

Sounds far more plausible than the theory that Western nations are trying to goad Putin into WWIII...

[Setton]

9 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Also, given that it's election time in Russia, even though it's a foregone conclusion that Putin will win, there's nothing like uniting the Russian people behind him with "Us versus the West" Cold War style propaganda.

Sounds far more plausible than the theory that Western nations are trying to goad Putin into WWIII...

I wonder if he isn't actually laying the groundwork for the NEXT election. If I remember rightly, this is the last time he can be president. Nothing like the prospect of a war to persuade the Russian people they need a strong, tested leader in charge. 

[RoofGardener]

11 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Oh most definitely. This is an unwise move in every sense of the word if 'Russia', that is Putin's admin, is behind it. That doesnt fit the pattern, Russian pieces were played brilliantly until now, in a defenise fashion, but highly effective. Most if not all offensive actions have come from the West, demonization efforts at full blast, for months now. Why would Russia throw oil on the already sprakling fire by enaging in this assassination with a weapon that has her fingerprints all over it?

Didnt you ever watch Columbo? Come on.

..."most offensive actions have come from the West ?.."  Really ? Could you name some ? And do you consider the invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia and the Ukraine as "defensive" ? 

How about the "defensive" assassination of Alexander Litvinenko, or Alexander Perepilichny, or Georgi Markov ? (and they're just people assassinated in the UK).

Russia is governed by a brutal, warmongering, authoritarian regime. If the USA did any of these things, there would be a deafening outcry. But when Russia does it, we just hear mumbling and shuffling of feet. Why ? 

Edited March 16, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Mr.United_Nations]

11 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

But that would mean you think the West deserves demonisation, in dazzling spades, wouldnt it Roofgardener. Also, painting Ukraine; the annexation of Krim, as a 'Russian invasion' scenario, is a bit onesided.. to say the least. Russia has mainly been reacting to Western (hostile) actions, not the other way around. And as of yet, she has been exceedingly succesful in it.

 

Well it was an invasion, it was so perfectly organised 

[Space Commander Travis]

12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Most offensive actions have come from the West ? Really ? Could you name some ? 

In return, I'll mention the military aggression of Russia against Georgia and the Ukraine. Actual soldiers with real bullets and shells ? 

HE invaded Ukraine!!! By saying that, you're demonstrating your limited knowledge of the issue. Similarly, Georgia? Really? We're expected to be incandescent with fury against the Global Demon over his aggression towards Georgia? Do you hold the leaders of the "West" to similar standards?  

Quote

Could you name some ? 

 Are you serious there??   Would you like to draw up a list of all the countries the "West" has carried out aggressive military action towards, done their very utmost to destabilize, provoked or exacerbated coups or civil wars, or overthrown their government and left in chaos? Should we regard Messrs. Blair, Bush, Cameron, Sarkozy, Obama, Trump* , May, and the heads of NATO, in the same way we're all told to about the Global Demon?

* well, I expect everyone would in that case 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[RoofGardener]

1 minute ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

HE invaded Ukraine!!! By saying that, you're demonstrating your limited knowledge of the issue. Similarly, Georgia? Really? We're expected to be incandescent with fury against the Global Demon over his aggression towards Georgia? Do you hold the leaders of the "West" to similar standards?  

 Are you serious there??   Would you like to draw up a list of all the countries the "West" has carried out aggressive military action towards, done their very utmost to destabilize, provoked or exacerbated coups or civil wars, or overthrown their government and left in chaos? Should we regard Messrs. Blair, Bush, Cameron, Sarkozy, Obama, Trump* , May, and the heads of NATO, in the same way we're all told to about the Global Demon?

* well, I expect everyone would in that case 

The statement related to the suggestion that the "West" was responsible for aggressive actions against Russia . 

As for Georgia and the Crimea: when a country sends troops into another countries territory, against the will of that county's government, and then sets up a new government within that region, then there are usually only two terms that apply. 

Invasion, and Annexation. 

Oh... unless it's Russia doing it, in which case - in the minds of many Westerners - it's Evasion and Equivocation and Excuses and "Yeah.. but".  

[bee]

12 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-infuriates-house-of-commons-with-russia-response

"Corbyn infuriates Commons by asking some rational questions rather than standing up and waving his little Union Jack as Ms. May, Empress of Britain and All her Dominions, announces the Mobilization of the Fleet and that the March on Moscow will commence no later than Monday. Just as long as there hasn't been any snow.  "

 

well I'm with Jeremy on this one....

from link...

 

Quote

"We need to continue seeking a robust dialogue with Russia on all the issues currently dividing our countries, both domestic and international, rather than simply cutting off contact and letting the tensions and divisions get worse and, potentially, even more dangerous," he said.

 

and this was pretty funny under the circumstances....
 

 

Quote

Mr Corbyn prompted more controversy when he highlighted Russian-linked donations to the Conservative Party, as revealed by the Sunday Times at the weekend.

He said: "We're all familiar with the way huge fortunes, often acquired in the most dubious circumstances in Russia, sometimes connected to criminal elements, have ended up sheltering in London and trying to buy political influence in British party politics.

"There have been over £800,000 worth of donations to the Conservative Party from Russian oligarchs and their associates."

  

jeeeez..... it could have been a Ukraine Oligarch or enemy of Putin Russian Oligarch that paid to get the Hit done... ?... as a frame up -

and any number of countries including the UK who are determined to make an enemy of Russia -- would probably like to spoil the World Cup -

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by bee

[Space Commander Travis]

10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The statement related to the suggestion that the "West" was responsible for aggressive actions against Russia . 

As for Georgia and the Crimea: when a country sends troops into another countries territory, against the will of that county's government, and then sets up a new government within that region, then there are usually only two terms that apply. 

Invasion, and Annexation. 

Oh... unless it's Russia doing it, in which case - in the minds of many Westerners - it's Evasion and Equivocation and Excuses and "Yeah.. but".  

And has Russia been responsible for aggression against the West? Unless you now define "The West" as including plucky little neo-fascist Ukraine? 

[Space Commander Travis]

19 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

when a country sends troops into another countries territory, against the will of that county's government, and then sets up a new government within that region, then there are usually only two terms that apply. 

Yes, like Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Libya, or Syria (Don't try to tell me the "West" hasn't been directly involved there in operations to overthrow the Syrian government, and by having Boots on the Ground I think that qualifies as an invasion by your definition doesn't it.) Don't be hypocritical. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[Space Commander Travis]

* I just found this which sums up the idiocy:

[RoofGardener]

25 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

And has Russia been responsible for aggression against the West? Unless you now define "The West" as including plucky little neo-fascist Ukraine? 

Two thoughts:

Firstly, does poisoning British citizens, in Britain, count as aggression ? How about flying long-range strategic bombers into our airspace / Gosh, I think it does  

Secondly.... "plucky litle neo- fascist Ukraine ? Gosh... not bias THERE then ?  As opposed to aggressive giant neo-fascist Russia ? anyway, if you're going to throw the word "fascist" around, please read your own signature  

[RoofGardener]

23 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

* I just found this which sums up the idiocy:

I LOVE it. I WANT one !!!

I may even make it my avatar !

Thanks  

[Space Commander Travis]

Ukraine? 

This from the Guardian, among the most rabid of the anti-Putin media: 

Neo-Nazi groups recruit Britons to fight in Ukraine

Ukraine's National Militia: 'We're not neo-Nazis, we just want to make ... 

https://www.theguardian.com/.../ukraine-far-right-national-militia-takes-law-into-own-...

1.  

3 days ago - They are members of the National Militia, an ultranationalist organisation closely linked to Ukraine’s Azov movement, a far-right group with a military wing that contains openly neo-Nazi members, and its political spin-off, the National Corpus party. 

 

'Jewish-Ukrainian Nationalist' to Whitewash Its Nazi-era Past - Haaretz 

https://www.haaretz.com › Opinion

1.  

9 Nov 2017 - Myth-making efforts by the Ukraine to glorify the WWII role of one 'archetypal' Jew, Leiba Dubrovskii, is part of Kyiv's war on memory: its eager attempts to erase anti-Semitism, brutality and complicity with the Nazis from its wartime history.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[Space Commander Travis]

7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Firstly, does poisoning British citizens, in Britain, count as aggression ? How about flying long-range strategic bombers into our airspace / Gosh, I think it does  

(a) If you think that's in any way comparable to overthrowing governments and leaving countries in chaos, I really don't know what to say in response. and

(b) actually I don't think they have flown into Uk airspace without permission. And do you know that there are NATO forces established on Russia's' borders in Poland and naval forces in the Baltic and the Black Sea, and they regularly do exactly the same thing near , if not actually over, Russia's borders? 

[RoofGardener]

2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

(a) If you think that's in any way comparable to overthrowing governments and leaving countries in chaos, I really don't know what to say in response. and

(b) actually I don't think they have flown into Uk airspace without permission. And do you know that there are NATO forces established on Russia's' borders in Poland and naval forces in the Baltic and the Black Sea, and they regularly do exactly the same thing near , if not actually over, Russia's borders? 

NATO naval forces overfly Russia's airspace ? Wow... that's impressive. I thought Flying Boats went out in the 1930's  

As for the NATO forces in Poland... is it possible you are thinking of the Polish Army ?  

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Ukraine? 

This from the Guardian, among the most rabid of the anti-Putin media: 

Neo-Nazi groups recruit Britons to fight in Ukraine

Ukraine's National Militia: 'We're not neo-Nazis, we just want to make ... 

https://www.theguardian.com/.../ukraine-far-right-national-militia-takes-law-into-own-...

1.  

3 days ago - They are members of the National Militia, an ultranationalist organisation closely linked to Ukraine’s Azov movement, a far-right group with a military wing that contains openly neo-Nazi members, and its political spin-off, the National Corpus party. 

 

'Jewish-Ukrainian Nationalist' to Whitewash Its Nazi-era Past - Haaretz 

https://www.haaretz.com › Opinion

1.  

9 Nov 2017 - Myth-making efforts by the Ukraine to glorify the WWII role of one 'archetypal' Jew, Leiba Dubrovskii, is part of Kyiv's war on memory: its eager attempts to erase anti-Semitism, brutality and complicity with the Nazis from its wartime history.

Ahh... OK. That would entirely justify the destabalisation - and subsequent invasion - of the Ukraine. Obviously, if a country has far-right people in it - even if they are not in government - then it is  appropriate to invade that country militarily, and annex part of its territory. 

Darn... there goes the Home Counties, and parts of Yorkshire  

Now then.. where Sergei and Yulia Skripal neo-Nazi's ? Oh.. wait.. no.. they weren't. Gosh, I guess that your entire post about Ukraine's national militia was a total red herring ?  Who'da Thunkit comrade Vlad  

 

[LV-426]

2 hours ago, bee said:

well I'm with Jeremy on this one....

Putin must be laughing his ass off at Corbyn's weakness.

I was watching an interview with former Georgian President, Mikheil Saakashvili this morning. He stated that Putin only understands strength.

He said that in his final face-to-face meeting with Putin, his comment was along the lines of "The West will promise you nice things, and never deliver. I promise you no nice things, and always deliver."

[Phaeton80]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

..."most offensive actions have come from the West ?.."  Really ? Could you name some ? And do you consider the invasion and annexation of parts of Georgia and the Ukraine as "defensive" ? 

How about the "defensive" assassination of Alexander Litvinenko, or Alexander Perepilichny, or Georgi Markov ? (and they're just people assassinated in the UK).

Russia is governed by a brutal, warmongering, authoritarian regime. If the USA did any of these things, there would be a deafening outcry. But when Russia does it, we just hear mumbling and shuffling of feet. Why ? 

 

I sure can.

Nato creeping into Russia's backyard against promises made to the contrary.. sending thousands of troops to her borders. Can you imagine what the US / GB would do if their national sovereignty was encroached by a warschaupact?

Coordinated economic sanctions against Russia for reacting to the Ukraine coup placing a Western controlled puppet government (take some time and take a good hard look at Poroshenko's admin, and how Yanukovich was ousted) under the guise of 'revolution'. Again; can you imagine what the US, or GB, would have done if the tables were turned?

Coordinated efforts to blame Russia for distributing fake news in such levels it threatens the security of Western nations.. Even going so far as to threaten taking media outlets like RT off the air for spreading such 'fake news' While numerous claims made by politicians in Western nations regarding Russia were proven fake, with soul intent to demonize, paint them as a 'clear & present threat'. While our own media deals in fake news daily, and has entered in several wars - resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths - based on deceptive, false narratives.

Continuous negative reports in regards to the Russian intervention in Syria, trying to paint them as bombing civilians in Ghouta, bombing hospitals, being responsible for food en medicine not reaching victims of war, and numerous other unhumane acts. While thesame happening in Ukraine, in an all but mirror situation, remains unreported. And while the Western juggernaut has left a path of unprecedented destruction behind her through all of the regime change policies employed, throughout the world, especially the ME.

The whole Russian - US collusion ruse, where Russia is investigated / demonized for months and months by the FBI, the very party which single handedly killed the Clinton woman's chances by way of declaring a reopening of investigations into her email case mere months before election.

Look, 'we' were provenly lied to before, and 'we' greenlighted wars causing hundreds of thousands of innocent casualties based on those lies before. We are provided with extremely illogical, comically shallow narratives in line with those earlier lies, and what do we do? We accept them like nothing ever happened, like we were never lied to before, like the institutionalization of deception needed for what happened isnt really there, like these wars never happened. No, we simply turn around, point our finger to the next 'bad guy', and subscribe to the newest efforts at a casus belli, support the incitement of yet another conflict. Seems rational to you?

All this notwithstanding; it all bares down on the way this newest narrative is presented, the evidence it is based on, and the actions that proceed from it. Its just laughable, and completely in line with earlier methods employed. Definitive accusations are made, necessary proof is completely and utterly lacking, and agressive rhetoric as well as political sanctions immediately follow, media is activated to seed one sided, narrative supporting reports enmasse. All the earmarks of BS, surely.

We have been, and are, initiating wars left & right, we deal in fake news like no other, our media is just as controlled as those we like to hate, and we have been responsible for the most civilian casualties and human suffering leaving the next in line miles and miles behind.. and still we have people who think we are the quintessential good guys, still believe the nonsense fed to us by thesame elements who lied to us before based on flimsy evidence at best, still cheering on conflict against 'evil tirants'. Our governments need enemies to further their geo political plans, and as most nations do not think it wise to position themselves as such spontaneously, our governments simply create them (enemies) themselves. This is nothing new, empires have always done so, and they always will. Sad thing is, one would hope the constituants would become wise to the game at some point, especially in the information age, and especially when the narrative is so very shallow, again. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Phaeton80

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

(b) actually I don't think they have flown into Uk airspace without permission. And do you know that there are NATO forces established on Russia's' borders in Poland and naval forces in the Baltic and the Black Sea, and they regularly do exactly the same thing near , if not actually over, Russia's borders? 

Actually, I've only just noticed something.... there ARE no "Russian borders with Poland" ? Or was that a Freudian slip ? Poland borders Lithuania, Latvia, and Ukraine... do you regard those as "Russian" territory ?  . Is there something you would like to share with us about Russian intentions in the near future ?  

[RoofGardener]

7 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

I sure can.

Nato creeping into Russia's backyard against promises made to the contrary.. sending thousands of troops to her borders. Can you imagine what the US / GB would do if their national sovereignty was encroached by a warschaupact?

Coordinated economic sanctions against Russia for reacting to the Ukraine coup placing a Western controlled puppet government (take some time and take a good hard look at Poroshenko's admin, and how Yanukovich was ousted) under the guise of 'revolution'. Again; can you imagine what the US, or GB, would have done if the tables were turned?

Coordinated efforts to blame Russia for distributing fake news in such levels it threatens the security of Western nations.. Even going so far as to threaten taking media outlets like RT off the air for spreading such 'fake news' While numerous claims made by politicians in Western nations regarding Russia were proven fake, with soul intent to demonize, paint them as a 'clear & present threat'. While our own media deals in fake news daily, and has entered in several wars - resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths - based on deceptive, false narratives.

Continuous negative reports in regards to the Russian intervention in Syria, trying to paint them as bombing civilians in Ghouta, bombing hospitals, being responsible for food en medicine not reaching victims of war, and numerous other unhumane acts. While thesame happening in Ukraine, in an all but mirror situation, remains unreported. And while the Western juggernaut has left a path of unprecedented destruction behind her through all of the regime change policies employed, throughout the world, especially the ME.

The whole Russian - US collusion ruse, where Russia is investigated / demonized for months and months by the FBI, the very party which single handedly killed the Clinton woman's chances by way of declaring a reopening of investigations into her email case mere months before election.

Look, 'we' were provenly lied to before, and 'we' greenlighted wars causing hundreds of thousands of innocent casualties based on those lies before. We are provided with extremely illogical, comically shallow narratives in line with those earlier lies, and what do we do? We accept them like nothing ever happened, like we were never lied to before, like the institutionalization of deception needed for what happened isnt really there, like these wars never happened. No, we simply turn around, point our finger to the next 'bad guy', and subscribe to the newest efforts at a casus belli, support the incitement of yet another conflict. Seems rational to you?

All this notwithstanding; it all bares down on the way this newest narrative is presented, the evidence it is based on, and the actions that proceed from it. Its just laughable, and completely in line with earlier methods employed. Definitive accusations are made, necessary proof is completely and utterly lacking, and agressive rhetoric as well as political sanctions immediately follow, media is activated to seed one sided, narrative supporting reports enmasse. All the earmarks of BS, surely.

We have been, and are, initiating wars left & right, we deal in fake news like no other, our media is just as controlled as those we like to hate, and we have been responsible for the most civilian casualties and human suffering leaving the next in line miles and miles behind.. and still we have people who think we are the quintessential good guys, still believe the nonsense fed to us by thesame elements who lied to us before based on flimsy evidence at best, still cheering on conflict against 'evil tirants'. Our governments need enemies to further their geo political plans, and as most nations do not think it wise to position themselves as such spontaneously, our governments simply create them (enemies) themselves. This is nothing new, empires have always done so, and they always will. Sad thing is, one would hope the constituants would become wise to the game at some point, especially in the information age, and especially when the narrative is so very shallow, again. 

I disagree

Sorry... precisely which of "Russia's Borders" has "thousands" of "NATO' troops on it ? 

As for Ukraine... you're saying that Russia invaded and permanently occupied (e.g. annexed) parts of the Ukraine because the Ukranians voted for the wrong politician ? On that basis, no doubt you would approve of Russia invading the USA ?  

Edited March 16, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Phaeton80]

11 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Putin must be laughing his ass off at Corbyn's weakness.

I was watching an interview with former Georgian President, Mikheil Saakashvili this morning. He stated that Putin only understands strength.

He said that in his final face-to-face meeting with Putin, his comment was along the lines of "The West will promise you nice things, and never deliver. I promise you no nice things, and always deliver."

 

Quote

Mr Corbyn, responding to the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, called for a "decisive and proportionate" response once an investigation by counter-terror officers in Salisbury has been completed.

He added this should be "focused on reducing conflicts and tensions rather than increasing them", telling MPs: "Let us do all we can to ensure this never, ever happens again."

 

Yessir, thats ga* as h*ll isnt it, sad little snowflakish SJW that Corbyn. Imagine having a comprehensive investiation before going in full conflict mode, weak!

No but seriously, might it be a good idea to actually let Putin talk for himself for a change, instead of quoting a juicy statement one of his enemies said he supposedly verbalised? 

 

[Phaeton80]

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I disagree

Sorry... precisely which of "Russia's Borders" has "thousands" of "NATO' troops on it ? 

 

I disagree.