Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[bee]

24 minutes ago, CountMystery said:

These days I find the russian government more trustworthy than any west-european government. How can any person in a clear state of mind trust those warmongering puppets of ... 

 

well that's a bit of a cliff hanger..... 

I see that's your first post - welcome to the forum

 

[Phaeton80]

Quote

The thing is Phaeton, you're basing all your assumptions on the same level of evidence presented publicly as the rest of us.

My 'assumptions' are simply that which any civil court of law would adhere to. Innocent until proven guilty, the burdain of proof lies with the plaintiff, and international conventions must be honored (CWC). I know, crazy stuff, isnt it.

Your position on this evidence, be it 100% or not, is to assume your own government, along with that of close allies, is to lie, while viewing Putin - someone with a proven track record - to be the innocent victim in all this. I just don't get it.

My position on this evidence is that it is comically lacking; lets suppose Russia has 'developed' this specific agent, to simply conclude therefor she is culpable, and no other conclusion possible is simply in- sane. Especially given the fact Russia has been in ruins after said supposed development, and any number of nations could have attained and synthesized it. Your attempt at using the opinion / support of befriended nations, allies, as the proof that is missing somehow seems rather irrational to me, especially given earlier gleaned results (yes, Iraq); allies agreeing on something does not make it true, another proven, unequivocal fact.

..Then again; facts and Western judicial proceedings dont seem to matter to you, sometimes. Could it be the emotion factor is at play here in considerable levels? 'I just dont get it'.

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't bother with this ludicrous farce anymore, but has Prime Minister May and her gang of idiots provided any evidence at all that it was Putin that Did It, other than "well, it must've been mustn't it, it's just the kind of thing he'd do, being evil and vile and stuff"? Has the idiotic May regime allowed anyone else to study the alleged stuff, or, like the threat from Saddam Hussein, must we accept their word and Trust Them? Has the spluttering gang of Tory d**** even managed to pin down exactly how Putin's Vile Agent of Death managed to (not quite) bump off this alleged ex-spook? Have the drivelling bunch of halfwitted buffoons actually managed to get any other business of government, such as for instance getting down to trying to make some progress with flaming Brexit, done at all for the last best part of a month, or have they been enjoying the admiration and respect of the world they've won for standing up to tyranny far too much to actually have to get down to facing the cold, hard, sad reality of their utter impotent uselessness at everything they are actually supposed to be doing? 

[bee]

8 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Have the drivelling bunch of halfwitted buffoons actually managed to get any other business of government, such as for instance getting down to trying to make some progress with flaming Brexit, done at all for the last best part of a month, 

 

let's take a little walk down Paranoia Lane....

If there is a military conflict with Russia in the next year there will BE NO BREXIT -

Now that would be jolly convenient for the EU and the Globalists wouldn't it --

Perhaps it's like a mega game of poker with the fate of the earth and all our lives and ''''they''''' are going ALL IN ...... 

(see next post)

 

[bee]

 

dumb............as............rocks............?
 

 

one of the comments under this video might also shine a light on this dangerous and insane situation....

bringing to mind the phrase..... "It's the economy stupid"

While May hides in her VIP underground bunker the UK people above will be all dead with one nuke if we attack Russia. This all over the death of the Petro - Dollar because the Westen banking system is about to collapse they need a war to cover up the central bankers crimes.

Perhaps it's much more than the Middle East..... and geopolitical posturing.....?

That's the end of the little walk down Paranoia Lane for now.... don't want to give anyone (including myself) nightmares....

But this is very serious stuff.... mark my words  (or not if you don't want to)

[hetrodoxly]

I have to give credit where it's due, May and her government have done sterling work on bringing the rest of the world on board regarding Russian aggression.

[ExpandMyMind]

3 hours ago, bee said:

 

let's take a little walk down Paranoia Lane....

If there is a military conflict with Russia in the next year there will BE NO BREXIT -

Now that would be jolly convenient for the EU and the Globalists wouldn't it --

Perhaps it's like a mega game of poker with the fate of the earth and all our lives and ''''they''''' are going ALL IN ...... 

(see next post)

 

Oh God you are so on the money. The UK wants to stay in Europe so much that we're willing to decimate the world with another world war.

I guess there's method to the madness though. When the European continent physically splits in half, New Europe can just leave out those pesky Eastern European countries when redrawing borders, since there'll be a new sea separating us. 

Who knew May was really playing 4D chess.

[bee]

7 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Oh God you are so on the money. The UK wants to stay in Europe so much that we're willing to decimate the world with another world war.

 

Little correction..... The EU and Globalists and Associates want the UK to stay in Europe so much..... and wants to destabilize and dominate Russia 
so much (oil and gas?)  they could be willing to decimate the world  with another World War - Order out of Chaos - the birth of the One World Govt.
 

7 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I guess there's method to the madness though. When the European continent physically splits in half, New Europe can just leave out those pesky Eastern European countries when redrawing borders, since there'll be a new sea separating us. 

Who knew May was really playing 4D chess.

 

It might not be as easy as we are lead to believe to get a major nuclear detonation timed and executed**..... so it doesn't have to
be nuclear - a 'conventional' war could do the trick...........halt Brexit and the Populist Movements - maybe if they're lucky remove Putin
and install a puppet style Pro Western Government in Russia - ? 

**this could be why May et al are so gung ho about it all.... 

but if the right timing and conditions and opportunity is met from either side for a nuclear strike - nuclear might still be an option...     

[bee]

 

and if the shift away from the petrodollar is a factor to be considered in (what I believe to be) the Anti Putin  Anti Russia propaganda operation in Salisbury ----- 

https://followthemoney.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system-part-1/

As the U.S. dollar continued to lose purchasing power, several oil-producing countries began to question the wisdom of accepting increasingly worthless paper currency for their oil supplies. Today, several countries have attempted to move away, or already have moved away, from the petrodollar system. Examples include Iran, Syria, Venezuela, and North Korea… or the “axis of evil,” if you prefer. (What is happening in our world today makes a whole lot of sense if you simply read between the lines and ignore the “official” reasons that are given in the mainstream media.) Additionally, other nations are choosing to use their own currencies for oil like China, Russia, and India, among others.

[stevewinn]

10 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

I have to give credit where it's due, May and her government have done sterling work on bringing the rest of the world on board regarding Russian aggression.

There is always a method to what we'd consider Russian madness, I think with Brexit the Russians seen a chance to test if the UK is politically isolated from the rest of Europe, a test if you will, if after this attack Putin notes that the UK and EU cannot reach a consensus, a united front, then Britain would be asking questions of the EU, it would highlight a political divide that could be seized upon, because if there's a open divide on this attack there would be a open divide if Russia made a move elsewhere in Europe which would be exploited and that's why we've seen this united front because Allied countries see what's at play here.

[Phaeton80]

18 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

I have to give credit where it's due, May and her government have done sterling work on bringing the rest of the world on board regarding Russian aggression.

 

Well sir, the evidence speaks for itself, doesnt it. Not much help needed to 'bring the rest o/t world onboard against Russia', is there. Oh, wait.. thats your position, silly me. Confusing..

But seriously, it indeed is sterling work, given the body of proof it is based on.. which is non existent (I might have mentioned this already somewhere). Almost as sterling as the work done by the W and his government. Maybe May should wield the power of powerpoint like honerable mr Powell did so convincingly.

Yay!

You gentlepeople have a grand time celebrating this 'sterling work', a fine evening to all.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Phaeton80

[LV-426]

16 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Well sir, the evidence speaks for itself, doesnt it. Not much help needed to 'bring the rest o/t world onboard against Russia', is there. Oh, wait.. thats your position, silly me. Confusing..

But seriously, it indeed is sterling work, given the body of proof it is based on.. which is non existent (I might have mentioned this already somewhere). Almost as sterling as the work done by the W and his government. Maybe May should wield the power of powerpoint like honerable mr Powell did so convincingly.

Yay!

You gentlepeople have a grand time celebrating this 'sterling work', a fine evening to all.

Instead of guesswork, why don't you present the evidence yourself.

Present everything that has been made public, and present everything that has been presented to governments around the world...

No?

Is that perhaps as we can't be made privvy to all the evidence? What do you want them to do? Post the exact chemical formula for the agent used, and the method used in producing it? Reveal sensitive national security information to counter your paranioa?

What will you say if the OPCW return with a damning verdict on Russia? Will you change your position, or will you still blame anyone but Russia?

Bottom line... us mere mortals are never going to be given access to the kind of data you demand. Present your case as best you can if you believe you have concrete evidence that our governments are all culpable - and I'm not talking links to pro-Kremlin blogs suggesting the plot was gleaned from a TV drama series...

Otherwise I might aswell request this thread gets moved to the Conspiracies section

[Phaeton80]

1 hour ago, LV-426 said:

Instead of guesswork, why don't you present the evidence yourself.

Present everything that has been made public, and present everything that has been presented to governments around the world...

No?

Is that perhaps as we can't be made privvy to all the evidence? What do you want them to do? Post the exact chemical formula for the agent used, and the method used in producing it? Reveal sensitive national security information to counter your paranioa?

What will you say if the OPCW return with a damning verdict on Russia? Will you change your position, or will you still blame anyone but Russia?

Bottom line... us mere mortals are never going to be given access to the kind of data you demand. Present your case as best you can if you believe you have concrete evidence that our governments are all culpable - and I'm not talking links to pro-Kremlin blogs suggesting the plot was gleaned from a TV drama series...

Otherwise I might aswell request this thread gets moved to the Conspiracies section

Dude, please.   Youre the one supporting the guesswork side, the side making the explicit accusations, employing actual sanctions based on such.. Cheering on the hatchet jobs targeted at those that have very reasonable questions.. Dont get it twisted.

I dont know if you have been paying attention, but May has been quoted as follows:
 

Quote

Prime minister says origin of nerve agent and past record of assassinations make Russian involvement highly likely

Theresa May has given Vladimir Putin’s administration until midnight on Tuesday to explain how a former spy was poisoned in Salisbury, otherwise she will conclude it was an “unlawful use of force” by the Russian state against the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/russia-highly-likely-to-be-behind-poisoning-of-spy-says-theresa-may

 

Quote

Former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were poisoned by a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, Theresa May has told MPs.

The PM said it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack.

The Foreign Office summoned Russia's ambassador to provide an explanation.

Mrs May said if there is no "credible response" by the end of Tuesday, the UK would conclude there has been an "unlawful use of force" by Moscow.

The chemical used in the attack, the PM said, has been identified as one of a group of nerve agents known as Novichok.

Mrs May said: "Either this was a direct action by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43377856

 

Quote

May says Kremlin responded with ‘sarcasm, contempt and defiance’ to 24-hour deadline set by UK

Britain is braced for retaliation from Moscow after Theresa May blamed the Russian state for the Salisbury poisoning, and announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats and a crackdown on “corrupt elites”.

The prime minister told the House of Commons the Kremlin had responded with “sarcasm, contempt and defiance” to the 24-hour deadline the government set on Monday for explaining the attack on former spy Sergei Skripal.

“Their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events,” May told MPs. She said: “There is no alternative conclusion other than the Russian state was responsible for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter.”

It was “unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom”, May said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/14/may-expels-23-russian-diplomats-response-spy-poisoning

I dont know about you, but it seems pretty damn clear the basis for this logic is the fact were supposedly dealing with a toxic agent which was developed by Russia. Further it is explained, that Russia is guilty if she is directly ('direct action') or indirectly ('lost control of') 'involved' (which is a given). Without going in dialogue with the accused, and without providing any definitive evidence, definitive accusations are made. Subsequently, the accused is demanded to explain its origin, and method of employ. In conclusion it is stated: “There is no alternative conclusion other than the Russian state was responsible for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter.”

Now one could all rationalize this away thinking 'Well, they must have the evidence at hand, look at all those nations supporting our cause'.. But the essential point is; and this is the millionth time Im repeating this: First you prove guilt, then you impose sanctions. The accuser demanding the accused to prove his/her/its innocence, before having provided proof themselves, is absolutely, undoubtedly, highly irrational and up side down. Whichever way you'd want to twist it. Imagine if every nation starts using this miraculous method, imagine these methods employed against your nation..

Again, fine evening. Ill leave you folks to it. Tired of repetition, as Im sure you all are.

Peace.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Phaeton80

[LV-426]

9 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Again, fine evening. Ill leave you folks to it. Tired of repetition, as Im sure you all are.

Peace.

Well, on that we can agree at least

It's kind of pointless batting the argument back and forth with such diametrically opposing views.

Peace back to ya!

[hetrodoxly]

3 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Well sir, the evidence speaks for itself, doesnt it. Not much help needed to 'bring the rest o/t world onboard against Russia', is there. Oh, wait.. thats your position, silly me. Confusing..

But seriously, it indeed is sterling work, given the body of proof it is based on.. which is non existent (I might have mentioned this already somewhere). Almost as sterling as the work done by the W and his government. Maybe May should wield the power of powerpoint like honerable mr Powell did so convincingly.

Yay!

You gentlepeople have a grand time celebrating this 'sterling work', a fine evening to all.

Ok? 

[bee]

group hug................ 

link

Edited March 29, 2018 by bee

[Van Gorp]

It's clearly a desperate move of the Atlantean block to use false pretexts to seperate EU from Russia.

Aglo-Sax worldview is losing it's appeal and dominition in the West.  Eurasia, as it should, is taking lead over Euratlant.

There was, is and will be more collaboration with Russia from the EU. This is very painfull for US/UK, who are loosing their allies.

Hence, the overly clear accusation without any substance from UK to get between the rest of EU and Russia. They can't stand the good relation in the Eurasia block, so they try to break it ! :-)

Face it US/UK, there is no us anymore. You betrayed time and time again your so called allies.  They are no more, see the diplomatic language. Big middle finger in other words,, when you withdraw 1 or 2 diplomats as an act of 'support'. Behind the scenes, there is none anymore lol.

 

[Space Commander Travis]

Another articel that sums up the absurdity of the "It must've been Putin because he just wants to show the world just how evil he is!!" storyline:

The Skripal Poisonings and the Ongoing Vilification of Putin

Quote

Which would mean: Putin—facing no threat from this traded ex-spy or his innocent daughter—ordered their killing, not because they threatened him, but rather to manifest his deep cruelty and evil to the world and his willingness to invite more and more sanctions against Russia. It doesn’t make much sense.

 

[bee]

 

I am moved for the first time ever to do a Double Musical Interlude..........

First one.... What the Wold  needs now.........
 

 

Second one...... (dedicated to 'seeder')............... in anticipation of a successful World Cup ....

edit to add.... I mean the Tournament in general not particularly just the English team because we
all know it can be a painful experience watching the England games....  

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by bee

[acute]

In the news today:  Mr. Skripal's neice says her uncle and cousin have a miniscule chance of survival. They will either die or be severely disabled.

[hetrodoxly]

3 hours ago, Van Gorp said:

It's clearly a desperate move of the Atlantean block to use false pretexts to seperate EU from Russia.

Aglo-Sax worldview is losing it's appeal and dominition in the West.  Eurasia, as it should, is taking lead over Euratlant.

There was, is and will be more collaboration with Russia from the EU. This is very painfull for US/UK, who are loosing their allies.

Hence, the overly clear accusation without any substance from UK to get between the rest of EU and Russia. They can't stand the good relation in the Eurasia block, so they try to break it ! :-)

Face it US/UK, there is no us anymore. You betrayed time and time again your so called allies.  They are no more, see the diplomatic language. Big middle finger in other words,, when you withdraw 1 or 2 diplomats as an act of 'support'. Behind the scenes, there is none anymore lol.

 

A big steaming pile of cow poo.

[Mr.United_Nations]

K

1 hour ago, acute said:

In the news today:  Mr. Skripal's neice says her uncle and cousin have a miniscule chance of survival. They will either die or be severely disabled.

If that' the case then it was a highly dose of poison, way high

[acute]

NHS statement just released:  Yulia Skripal is responding to treatment, and her condition is improving. Her father is still in critical condition.

Edited March 29, 2018 by acute
Edited for clarity

[LV-426]

31 minutes ago, acute said:

NHS statement just released:  Julia Skripal is responding to treatment, and is now stable. Her father is still in critical condition.

Link:

Russian ex-spy's daughter 'improving rapidly'

"Yulia Skripal is "improving rapidly" and no longer in a critical condition, four weeks after the Salisbury poisoning, the hospital has said.

The daughter of ex-spy Sergei Skripal was admitted they came into contact with a nerve agent. on 4 March.

"She has responded well to treatment but continues to receive expert clinical care 24 hours a day," the hospital said.

Mr Skripal remains in a critical but stable condition."

[stevewinn]

4 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Link:

Russian ex-spy's daughter 'improving rapidly'

"Yulia Skripal is "improving rapidly" and no longer in a critical condition, four weeks after the Salisbury poisoning, the hospital has said.

The daughter of ex-spy Sergei Skripal was admitted they came into contact with a nerve agent. on 4 March.

"She has responded well to treatment but continues to receive expert clinical care 24 hours a day," the hospital said.

Mr Skripal remains in a critical but stable condition."

I wonder what she'll be able to tell the Police, what happened, who they met etc... that's if they haven't already communicated that information.

Edited March 29, 2018 by stevewinn