Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, LV-426 said:

Lay blame and show all the animosity you want towards your own governement along with those of Western allies, but don't try to paint Assad as some kind of terrorist fighting hero.

Ugh not claiming the man is a hero. He is fighting terrorists however. They're just terrorists that we "like" 

4 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Terrorists such as women and children in refugee camps, schools and hospitals?

Why Is the U.S. Killing So Many Civilians in Syria and Iraq?

Quote

wo weeks ago, the American military finally acknowledged what nongovernmental monitoring groups had claimed for months: The United States-led coalition fighting the Islamic State since August 2014 has been killing Iraqi and Syrian civilians at astounding rates in the four months since President Trump assumed office. The result has been a “staggering loss of civilian life,” as the head of the United Nations’ independent Commission of Inquiry into the Syrian civil war said last week.

“At least 484 civilians have been unintentionally killed by coalition strikes,” the United States Central Command, or Centcom, the military command responsible for the Middle East, said in a June 2 statement. Four months earlier, Centcom had said at least 199 civilians had been killed up to that point in the bombing campaign. Estimates by independent monitors are much higher. Airwars, a watchdog group, says coalition airstrikes have killed nearly 4,000 civilians.

Despite my anti Trump bend I was looking for  larger picture statistics when I found this. 

If you were more focused on the munitions type than the deaths themselves we do our share of horridness as well 

US reverses plan to quit using its stock of older cluster bombs

Quote

Cluster bombs -- which not only deliver an initial explosion on impact but also contain multiple smaller bombs that spread over a wide area -- are largely condemned by the international community due to the risk of civilian casualties when they're used in populated areas.

Over 100 countries, including most members of NATO, have called for a ban on the controversial weapon and human rights groups have expressed concerns over civilian casualties resulting from cluster bombs.

The United States is one of several nations -- including China, Israel, Iran, North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia -- that have rejected a ban on the sale or use of cluster bombs.

 

Everyone thinks that pointing out these things somehow makes me anti American or anti west but its really just an honest accounting of whats happening. We the west no longer have moral highground to stand on in these matters and there is no reason to think we are any less of a suspect in these alleged chemical attacks. 

[LV-426]

2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Everyone thinks that pointing out these things somehow makes me anti American or anti west but its really just an honest accounting of whats happening. We the west no longer have moral highground to stand on in these matters and there is no reason to think we are any less of a suspect in these alleged chemical attacks. 

Trying to find the truth in things is a noble pursuit, but what happens when you can't? What do you do when there is so much disinformation and propaganda in circulation these days, that truth is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles?

You either pick a side, or you pick no side.

That's what I find so hard to understand in these discussions. Remaining loyal to your country I understand. Staying neutral based on lack of evidence I can understand. The thing I don't understand is the way some on these forums - from Western nations - jump straight to criticizing their own countries and defending the likes of Putin and Assad. It's crazy.

Take a story, such as one published today:

Russian bots behind '4,000% rise' in spread of lies after Salisbury and Syria attacks - Govt analysis

"Online activity by Russian bots, trolls and automated accounts has increased by 4,000% in the days and weeks following the Salisbury poisoning and suspected chemical attack in Syria.

Government analysis has identified "Kremlin inspired" accounts that have repeatedly posted messages to "spread disinformation and distort the truth" - described by Prime Minister Theresa May as "part of a wider effort to undermine the international system".

One Twitter account identified by the UK Government as being a Russian bot, @Partisangirl, posted more than 2,300 tweets in less than a fortnight - an average of 200 posts a day.

It's estimated those tweets reached around 62 million people."

Myself, I have no reason to doubt the validity of this story, so I lean towards option A; remain loyal to my country.

I always try to keep an open mind though, so there's a part of me that keeps option B in mind; need more evidence.

Then we have the option C people; more Western propaganda to discredit Russia... I just do not understand this mentality at all

[Farmer77]

15 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Trying to find the truth in things is a noble pursuit, but what happens when you can't? What do you do when there is so much disinformation and propaganda in circulation these days, that truth is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles?

You either pick a side, or you pick no side.

Ive chosen to try and side with the truth, and if I cant ill keep looking for it. No need to pick sides, my side has already been picked, its mine LOL. 

16 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

That's what I find so hard to understand in these discussions. Remaining loyal to your country I understand. Staying neutral based on lack of evidence I can understand. The thing I don't understand is the way some on these forums - from Western nations - jump straight to criticizing their own countries and defending the likes of Putin and Assad. It's crazy

I can only speak for myself but for me saying things like hold up we don't actually know Assad was responsible, or even recognizing that he was fighting terrorism  isn't defending him, at all, its about defending truth. 

24 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Myself, I have no reason to doubt the validity of this story, so I lean towards option A; remain loyal to my country.

I always try to keep an open mind though, so there's a part of me that keeps option B in mind; need more evidence.

Then we have the option C people; more Western propaganda to discredit Russia... I just do not understand this mentality at all

 I think for me my positions have evolved (as in changed not as in became a superior version) to the point that I don't see identifying problems or even culpability in my nation is being unloyal. From an American viewpoint I actually view it as being loyal to the founding fathers original vision for our country. 

[bee]

23 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Trying to find the truth in things is a noble pursuit, but what happens when you can't? What do you do when there is so much disinformation and propaganda in circulation these days, that truth is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles?

You either pick a side, or you pick no side.

That's what I find so hard to understand in these discussions. Remaining loyal to your country I understand. Staying neutral based on lack of evidence I can understand. The thing I don't understand is the way some on these forums - from Western nations - jump straight to criticizing their own countries and defending the likes of Putin and Assad. It's crazy.

Take a story, such as one published today:

Russian bots behind '4,000% rise' in spread of lies after Salisbury and Syria attacks - Govt analysis

"Online activity by Russian bots, trolls and automated accounts has increased by 4,000% in the days and weeks following the Salisbury poisoning and suspected chemical attack in Syria.

Government analysis has identified "Kremlin inspired" accounts that have repeatedly posted messages to "spread disinformation and distort the truth" - described by Prime Minister Theresa May as "part of a wider effort to undermine the international system".

One Twitter account identified by the UK Government as being a Russian bot, @Partisangirl, posted more than 2,300 tweets in less than a fortnight - an average of 200 posts a day.

It's estimated those tweets reached around 62 million people."

Myself, I have no reason to doubt the validity of this story, so I lean towards option A; remain loyal to my country.

I always try to keep an open mind though, so there's a part of me that keeps option B in mind; need more evidence.

Then we have the option C people; more Western propaganda to discredit Russia... I just do not understand this mentality at all

 

from your link -

Quote

One of the accounts named by the Government - @Ian56789 - has told Sky News that he is not in the employment of the Kremlin.

He said: "I have been campaigning against the Neocons and the Neocon Wars since January 2002, when I first realised Dick Cheney and the PNAC crowd were going to use 9/11 as the pretext to launch a disastrous invasion of Iraq.

"This has nothing to do with Russia. It has EVERYTHING to do with the massive lies constantly told by the UK & US governments about their illegal Wars of Aggression."

and here he is one of the alleged Russian Bots ------- Ian5678--------- he brings up a good point starting around 6:00 about when people say 
things like ...."do you support Britain".......... (much in the way you make a point if insinuating that people who do not blindly follow the
government line are disloyal to the country) --- and 'Ian' says (in so many words)... what do they mean by Britain....? Do they mean
the 60 million people who live here or a small governement clique.... ?..... 

I'm not on Twitter but I'm guessing that usually the high number of posts from people on Twitter are re~tweets... ?

And someone who is fired up on the political situation... maybe watching in disbelief as we are expected to swallow any old BS coming
from the government and MPs.... might do quite a lot of re~tweeting... Ian was banned but then reinstated on Twitter ---

I suppose when it became pretty obvious that he was just a regular citizen with a passion for politics and NOT a software application....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot

An Internet Bot, also known as web robot, WWW robot or simply bot, is a software application that runs automated tasks (scripts) over the Internet.

 

So............. do you doubt the validity of the story now..... ?

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by bee

[bee]

2 minutes ago, bee said:

and here he is one of the alleged Russian Bots ------- Ian5678--------- he brings up a good point starting around 6:00 about when people say 
things like ...."do you support Britain".......... (much in the way you make a point if insinuating that people who do not blindly follow the
government line are disloyal to the country) --- and 'Ian' says (in so many words)... what do they mean by Britain....? Do they mean
the 60 million people who live here or a small governement clique.... ?..... 

I'm not on Twitter but I'm guessing that usually the high number of posts from people on Twitter are re~tweets... ?

And someone who is fired up on the political situation... maybe watching in disbelief as we are expected to swallow any old BS coming
from the government and MPs.... might do quite a lot of re~tweeting... Ian was banned but then reinstated on Twitter ---

I suppose when it became pretty obvious that he was just a regular citizen with a passion for politics and NOT a software application....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot

An Internet Bot, also known as web robot, WWW robot or simply bot, is a software application that runs automated tasks (scripts) over the Internet.

 

So............. do you doubt the validity of the story now..... ?

 

the above is addressed to @LV-426

that last post got messed up with the quote and what I said so I've done some of it again....

 

[bee]

 

and Partisangirl............ ?

was Theresa May right about her being a software application.... ?

well she has a wiki entry and looks pretty real to me on videos... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maram_Susli

Maram Susli (Arabic: مرام سوسلي), also known as Mimi al-Laham, PartisanGirl, Syrian Girl and Syrian Sister,[1] is a Syrian-Australian YouTuber who does videos on topics such as the Syrian Civil War, conspiracy theories and the Gamergate controversy.

 

BREAKING: SYRIANGIRL Explains Who Is Behind The Latest "Chemical Attack" In Douma, Syria

349,980 views

 

[LV-426]

Fair play bee, and good catch.

I should have recognized "Partisangirl" actually, from the Gamergate debacle.

So where do I stand now?

Maybe a little more skeptical, but unsurprised to be honest... leaning a bit more towards option B

The first thing I'd say is that I'm not surprised by the government's faux pas regarding technology. I have a background in computing, including doing a degree in software engineering, and the ineptitude of the government on technology issues is startling at times.

For example, Amber Rudd's belief that it would be possible to ban end-to-end encryption on the internet - it wouldn't just be impractical, it would completely negate privacy and security on the Internet, e.g. with banking, medical records, etc.

Call for encryption ban pits Rudd against industry and colleagues

I don't believe the faux pas completely undermines the story though. Disinformation is rife these days, and is as likely to be spread by people, as by bots:

Scientists prove that truth is no match for fiction on Twitter

"Researchers find fake news reaches users up to 20 times faster than factual content – and real users are more likely to spread it than bots"

As to these two particular protagonists, people need to make their own minds up. My personal opinion is conspiracy nutjobs.

The Sky News video you posted, I'd say the guy's ravings pretty much speak for themself - I had to laugh at him quoting "credible journalists", going on to say "there aren't any of those on Sky News" though

As to Partisangirl, again, people need to judge for themselves. In my opinion she's another conspiracy theorist with an added rabid desire for attention...

"Some of her more controversial assertions include that 9/11 was an 'inside job', that Ebola could be a US biological weapon and that chemical weapons are Syria's 'only hope'."

[GlitterRose]

On 4/20/2018 at 11:10 AM, Farmer77 said:

Ive chosen to try and side with the truth, and if I cant ill keep looking for it. No need to pick sides, my side has already been picked, its mine LOL. 

I can only speak for myself but for me saying things like hold up we don't actually know Assad was responsible, or even recognizing that he was fighting terrorism  isn't defending him, at all, its about defending truth. 

 I think for me my positions have evolved (as in changed not as in became a superior version) to the point that I don't see identifying problems or even culpability in my nation is being unloyal. From an American viewpoint I actually view it as being loyal to the founding fathers original vision for our country. 

Except that everyone does know that he's responsible.

It's like the flat earthers still trying to say the jury's out. 

[bee]

12 hours ago, LV-426 said:

As to these two particular protagonists, people need to make their own minds up. My personal opinion is conspiracy nutjobs.

The Sky News video you posted, I'd say the guy's ravings pretty much speak for themself - I had to laugh at him quoting "credible journalists", going on to say "there aren't any of those on Sky News" though

As to Partisangirl, again, people need to judge for themselves. In my opinion she's another conspiracy theorist with an added rabid desire for attention...

 

whatever your personal opinions are..... the fact is that UK intelligence, the UK government and our PM has been caught out 
unequivocally - spreading false information intended to further demonize Russia - aided and abetted by Media outlets...

I, too laughed at what 'Ian56789' said about Sky News when he was ON Sky news - because IMO he was absolutely right - and he had the
nerve to say it...  a priceless moment and I thank him for that -  

The Guardian, once a respectable newspaper, also ran the story with the false claims...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/russia-fake-news-salisbury-poisoning-twitter-bots-uk

ironically accusing Russia of spreading fake news... in an article where they spread fake news... 

quote ~

One bot, @Ian56789, was sending 100 posts a day during a 12-day period from 7 April, and reached 23 million users, before the account was suspended. It focused on claims that the chemical weapons attack on Douma had been falsified, using the hashtag #falseflag. Another, @Partisangirl, reached 61 million users with 2,300 posts over the same 12-day period.

'Partisangirl' hit back saying that the various accusers can't even get their statistics right - 

 

[bee]

 

re the Guardian Article ...

Jeremy Corbyn is mentioned  and again is one of the few politicians (IMO)  making sensible comments...
when so many of them appear to have lost their minds and all sense of reason in the ongoing whirlpool
of negative spin and corrosive anti Russia propaganda...sucking the country down into a warmongering
state of mind.... looks like we've got our own London ''swamp'' that needs draining like the Washington
one over the Pond.... the polluted Whitehall Whirlpool dragging us down into the abyss of war.... 

  

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has called for “a shift from the rhetoric of endless confrontation with Russia”, believing that it “could also help lower the temperature and make a UN consensus for multilateral action to end Syria’s agony more likely”.

amen to that

 

 

[bee]

13 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Fair play bee, and good catch.

 

oh --- forgot to say

cheers for that ... 

 

[RAyMO]

50 minutes ago, bee said:

looks like we've got our own London ''swamp'' that needs draining like the Washington
one over the Pond.... the polluted Whitehall Whirlpool dragging us down into the abyss of war.

Oh the Swamps need draining Bee on that we agree.

Where we will always disagree is who can be trusted to be in charge of the operation.

[bee]

10 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Oh the Swamps need draining Bee on that we agree.

Where we will always disagree is who can be trusted to be in charge of the operation.

 

where did you buy your Crystal Ball -  or did ya Granny pass it down.....  

 

[stevewinn]

Its a great thing the internet you cannot fail to find "evidence" which suits ones individual opinions or views. - if we are to believe - even a cure for Cancer is to be found. yet not in the real word.

[LV-426]

58 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Its a great thing the internet you cannot fail to find "evidence" which suits ones individual opinions or views. - if we are to believe - even a cure for Cancer is to be found. yet not in the real word.

I'll leave the last word to the great philosopher, Harry Callahan, on "opinions"

 

[Farmer77]

12 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Except that everyone does know that he's responsible.

It's like the flat earthers still trying to say the jury's out. 

When the evidence is declassified and shown to us Ill believe it. Until then **** them and their secret squirrel ****. 

[ExpandMyMind]

On 22/04/2018 at 12:28 PM, Farmer77 said:

When the evidence is declassified and shown to us Ill believe it. Until then **** them and their secret squirrel ****. 

Read this guy's thread. He makes a compelling case against Assad's denials. 

I wasn't sure about Assad and chemical attacks until I read the actual history of attacks in Syria.

[Farmer77]

14 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Read this guy's thread. He makes a compelling case against Assad's denials. 

I wasn't sure about Assad and chemical attacks until I read the actual history of attacks in Syria.

It is a compelling case thus far. My argument hasn't ever really been a defense of Assad, just a recognition of familiar factors which allow for shenanigans. ......still reading the thread 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Farmer77

[bee]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Read this guy's thread. He makes a compelling case against Assad's denials. 

I wasn't sure about Assad and chemical attacks until I read the actual history of attacks in Syria.

 

that Reddit thread smells so bad you need one of those big yellow protective suits they go waddling round Salisbury in
to read it....  

 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

25 minutes ago, bee said:

 

that Reddit thread smells so bad you need one of those big yellow protective suits they go waddling round Salisbury in
to read it....  

 

 

I suppose r/conspiracy is more to your tastes.

[bee]

2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I suppose r/conspiracy is more to your tastes.

 

that thread was dripping with conspirators..... 

.... like hey man.... fk Dude... good job.... ...who'd a thort it .... let's spread your hard work that was such an effort hither and thither... 

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

12 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Read this guy's thread. He makes a compelling case against Assad's denials. 

I wasn't sure about Assad and chemical attacks until I read the actual history of attacks in Syria.

that they were in fact faked by the Oscar winning White Helmets and the Good Rebels [who are of course the same thing] to lure easily gulled American Presidents into intervening on their behalf? 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[Phaeton80]

On 24-4-2018 at 10:06 PM, ExpandMyMind said:

Read this guy's thread. He makes a compelling case against Assad's denials. 

I wasn't sure about Assad and chemical attacks until I read the actual history of attacks in Syria.

Read this guy's article, he actually makes a compelling case against the FSA accusations implicating Assad. I know I know, its not as established a source as Reddit, but it lines up some interesting points, facts.

A small backdrop..

Quote

According to Defense Secretary James Mattis, there is no evidence that the Syrian government has used sarin gas on its own people.

“We have other reports from the battlefield from people who claim it’s been used.”

“We do not have evidence of it.”

For his part, in this latest statement, Mattis says that “aid groups and others” had provided evidence of the Syrian government using sarin. Other problems with the claims of Assad using sarin: in the 2013 Ghouta event, the sarin came from home-made rockets, which were favored by insurgents.

From Newsweek:

“In the 2013 event, the White House memorandum seemed to rely heavily on testimony from the Syrian white helmets who were filmed at the scene having contact with supposed sarin-tainted casualties and not suffering any ill effects.

“Carla del Ponte was unable to fulfill her U.N. joint investigative mechanism mandate in Syria and withdrew in protest over the United States refusing to fully investigate allegations of chemical weapons use by ‘rebels’ who are actually jihadis, allied with the American effort to oust President Assad (including the use of sarin by anti-Assad rebels).”

From the Times of London:

“Carla del Ponte, head of the independent UN commission investigating reports of chemical weapons use in Syria, told a Swiss-Italian television station that UN investigators gleaned testimony from victims of Syria’s civil war and medical staff which indicated that rebel forces used sarin gas – a deadly nerve agent.

Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated,’ del Ponte said in the interview, translated by Reuters.

This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities,’ she added.”

http://truthinmedia.com/reality-check-no-sarin-gas-used-assad-syria/

Here is the UN report on the use of chemical weapons in Syria, of which no one denies such weapons were in fact used. Pay special attention to the Khan Al Asal investigation.. Where the Syrian Arab Army seems to be not only the occupier of the site, has had a number of soldiers who were victim of the attack, but was also one of the main requestors of a formal investigation.
 

So, what do we know as unequivocal fact?

- we know for a fact we have been deceived in the not so distant past by the same accuser, by way of an extremely similar narrative, in an extremely similar context; 

- we know for a fact the US has been trying to oust Assad, just like the myriad of ME heads of state that went before him, since the inception of 'the Arab Spring';

- we know for a fact the US and her allies have used religious extremist elements, specifically the Islamic variant, to further their geo political aspirations in the past;

- we know for a fact the US foreign policy in the ME has effectively fomented a terrorist breedingground in the ME from which cults like ISIS sprang forth, and innumerable human suffering has arisen;

- we know for a fact the US's main Arab political ally is Saudi Arabia, the main ideological source of Wahhabism (besides Qatar, UAE et al), from which ISIS's Takfirieen school of thought hails, as well
  as being one of the main disseminators of the Wahhabi ideology throughout the Orient and Occident (effectively politicizing thesame into a full blown int recognized  headchopper's state);

- we know for a fact the assets, all different forms of support for the socalled moderate rebels have resulted in a bolstering of ISIS's capabilities, seeding chaos and terror throughout Syria as well as
  Iraq;

- we know for a fact the main victim of ISIS was and is Muslim, and the main force fighting ISIS boots on ground was and is Muslim;

- we know for a fact the socalled evidence used against Assad (that is to say, 'evidence Assad employed WMDs against his own people) has been provided by the opposition, and consists of open
  source / social media content;

- we know for a fact the socalled moderate rebels, as well as the 'not so moderate rebels', have indeed had access, and has indeed used chemical weapons like chlorine and possibly sarin gas during
  the Syrian conflict;

- we know for a fact that in regards to the sarin and chlorine investigations, U.N. officials were under enormous pressure from the U.S. State Department and Western governments to come up with
  something that could be  used to justify “regime change” in Damascus - which is comparable to earlier instances like, indeed, Iraq (ie. David Kelly, opposition elements like 'curveball' et al);

- we know for a fact the Western mainstream media, 'Free Press', is extremely biased in its reporting, even passionately attacking anyone or anything that doesnt fall in line with the mainstream
  narrative;

- we know for a fact that for the second time in two years, a US claim to no longer see a removal of Assad as a priority is swiftly followed up by a chemical attack, vehemently blamed on Assad;

[..]

Be that all as it may; we are dealing with war, and no one is innocent who participates. I am certainly no Assad fan, but that doesnt mean I do not see what I see. The real question should be: Did Assad in fact use this inhumane weaponry, against his own civilians, and is it an active - conscious - policy of the Syrian government? Is it an active, conscious policy like the use of depleted uranium during the Iraq conflict by the USA - full well knowing the horrible inhumane effects it would have for decades to come? Active, conscious policy like the use of white phosphor in Palestine, by Israel?

We should also ask ourselves if the use of 'regular' military explosive ordnance, like that which Saudi Arabia is seeding Yemen with as we speak / write, resulting in thousands and thousands of civilian casualties, is somehow perfectly acceptable? Wars of agression are the epiphony of a warcrime - A war of aggression, sometimes also war of conquest, is a military conflict waged without the justification of self-defense, usually for territorial gain and subjugation.

Besides the complexity of it all, it seems abundantly obvious that A.- our media is not doing its job (function of fourth estate, critical unbiased reporting), and B.- we in the West have grown accustomed to extreme - and I do mean extreme - double measures, resulting in the very crimes against humanity we are raging against.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Phaeton80]

 

Some additional info to underwrite one of my main points..
 

Quote

While initial mainstream media reporting is focused on the White House’s handling of the Benghazi consulate attack, a much “bigger picture” admission and confirmation is contained in one of the Defense Intelligence Agency documents circulated in 2012: that an ‘Islamic State’ is desired in Eastern Syria to effect the West’s policies in the region.

Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

The DIA report, formerly classified “SECRET//NOFORN” and dated August 12, 2012, was circulated widely among various government agencies, including CENTCOM, the CIA, FBI, DHS, NGA, State Dept., and many others.

The document shows that as early as 2012, U.S. intelligence predicted the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS), but instead of clearly delineating the group as an enemy, the report envisions the terror group as a U.S. strategic asset.

https://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-intelligence-agency-document-west-will-facilitate-rise-of-islamic-state-in-order-to-isolate-the-syrian-regime/

https://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/pgs-287-293-291-jw-v-dod-and-state-14-812-2/

 

Quote

Pentagon report predicted West’s support for Islamist rebels would create ISIS

Anti-ISIS coalition knowingly sponsored violent extremists to ‘isolate’ Assad, rollback ‘Shia expansion’

A declassified secret US government document obtained by the conservative public interest law firm, Judicial Watch, shows that Western governments deliberately allied with al-Qaeda and other Islamist extremist groups to topple Syrian dictator Bashir al-Assad.  The document reveals that in coordination with the Gulf states and Turkey, the West intentionally sponsored violent Islamist groups to destabilize Assad, and that these “supporting powers” desired the emergence of a “Salafist Principality” in Syria to “isolate the Syrian regime.

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-west-saw-isis-as-strategic-asset-b99ad7a29092

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Phaeton80

[bee]

15 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

 

it really is beyond the pale....  that ISIS / ISIL / Islamic State was covertly nurtured and supported by the West and unleashed onto the Syrian population 
and consequently unleashed to a lesser degree, onto  Western populations.... because the attempt to create a 'Salafist Principality'  aka an Islamic State (caliphate)
on Syrian land gave a focus and encouragement for militant action... at home and in the Middle East...

for example the extra cruel Manchester Bombing...  

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/british-jihadist-mohammed-abdallah-isis-membership

A supermarket worker with close links to the Manchester Arena bomber has been found guilty of fighting with

 Islamic State in Syria.

Mohammed Abdallah, 26, travelled to the war-torn state with the help of his younger brother, who ran an Isis “communications hub” from their family home in south Manchester.

The Old Bailey heard how Abdallah was listed as a specialist sniper in official Islamic State records and managed to slip into Syria with two fellow Manchester jihadists in 2014.

Their route into the country was coordinated by Abdallah’s 24-year-old brother, Abdalraouf Abdallah, a convicted terrorist who was close friends with the Arena bomber, Salman Abedi.