Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[bee]

 

meanwhile..... re Salisbury....

is this  story being quietly dropped now the latest Syrian Strikes are over and the anti Russia propaganda has peaked
and dropped (for now )

will the Skripals ever be seen again.... are they alive or dead...?

 

[Baz Dane]

18 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

- we know for a fact the US has been trying to oust Assad, just like the myriad of ME heads of state that went before him, since the inception of 'the Arab Spring';

 

Excellent overall post

 

Just to extend on the bolded...

And say... Since the 1980's...

 

Notice how almost 30 years later, what did we witness?

Gaddafi(Qadhafi)... the "key figure" was "collapsed"... and the "Pressure on Syria" ended up coming more so from Saudi Arabia(who mostly filled the ranks... and wallets... of ISIS... and of course with the help of their allies, Western and Gulf)... which is a story not quite over yet.

Something to think about...

Why is it that Obama and Hillary... Democrats... were following a 1980's Republican foreign policy?

Doesn't matter... onto Iran!

(Just waiting for the MSN to finally announce it was Iran who was behind 9/11, under the plan called "Shaitan dar Attesh"/Satan In Flames... as per Judge George B Daniels' final ruling, awarding 6.2 Billion to 9/11 victim's family members in the Havlish case against Iran, settled in 2015... A ruling the ENTIRE MSM, under Obama, somehow missed and didn't announce to the public )

Edited May 2, 2018 by Lemieux
Clarification on ruling

[Phaeton80]

Syria is the gateway to Iran. Im sure youre familiar with the Brookings Institute study paper; 'Which Path to Persia'.. It denotes not only the targetting of Iran through several routes, it also indicates the use of socalled 'color revolutions' (Maidan, Arab Spring) as a highly viable method to foment the desired aspirations. Proposing the employment of 'NGOs' - you know, those 'non political, unbiased non- government' organisations the Western media trusts completely - to attain that goal..

It also has a nice paragraph about Iranian 'threat of nuclear arms', as well as the recent sanctions..

Quote

Page 11: The Nuclear Non-Threat

The report concedes that Iran's leadership may be aggressive, but not reckless. The possession of nuclear weapons would be used as an absolute last resort, considering American and even Israeli nuclear deterrence capabilities. Even weapons ending up in the hands of non-state actors is considered highly unlikely by the report.

Similar reports out of RAND note that Iran has had chemical weapons in its inventory for decades, and other reports from RAND describe the strict control elite military units exercise over these weapons, making it unlikely they would end up in the hands of "terrorists." The fact that Iran's extensive chemical weapon stockpile has yet to be disseminated into the hands of non-state actors, along with the fact that these same elite units would in turn handle any Iranian nuclear weapons, lends further evidence to this conclusion.

Brookings notes on page 24, that the real threat is not the deployment of these weapons, but rather the deterrence they present, allowing Iran to counter US influence in the region without the fear of an American invasion. In other words, the playing field would become level and America may be forced to recognize Iran's national sovereignty in regards to its own regional interests.

 

Quote

Sanctions

Sanctions, page 39 (page 52 of PDF): "For those who favor regime change or a military attack on Iran (either by the United States or Israel), there is a strong argument to be made for trying this option first. inciting regime change in Iran would be greatly assisted by convincing the Iranian people that their government is so ideologically blinkered that it refuses to do what is best for the people and instead clings to a policy that could only bring ruin on the country. The ideal scenario in this case would be that the United States and the international community present a package of positive inducements so enticing that the Iranian citizenry would support the deal, only to have the regime reject it.

In a similar vein, any military operation against Iran will likely be very unpopular around the world and require the proper international context—both to ensure the logistical support the operation would require and to minimize the blowback from it. The best way to minimize international opprobrium and maximize support (however, grudging or covert) is to strike only when there is a widespread conviction that the Iranians were given but then rejected a superb offer—one so good that only a regime determined to acquire nuclear weapons and acquire them for the wrong reasons would turn it down. Under those circumstances, the United States (or Israel) could portray its operations as taken in sorrow, not anger, and at least some in the international community would conclude that the Iranians “brought it on themselves” by refusing a very good deal."

 

Quote

Page 103: Supporting a Color Revolution

Hailed as the "most obvious and palatable method" of bringing about the Iranian government's demise, Brookings suggests fostering a popular revolution. It brazenly admits the role of the "civil society organizations" in accomplishing this and suggests massive increases in funding for subversive activities in Iran.

Of course the United States has already passed the Iran Freedom Support Act, directly funding Iranian opposition groups inside of Iran with the explicit objective of overthrowing the current government. The passage of the act was followed by the 2009 "green revolution," which Iranian security forces were able to put down.

Currently, the "green revolution" in Iran is gearing up again. The US State Department and corporate sponsored Movements.org has been following and supporting the US-backed Iranian uprisings since the beginning. Iranian-American Cameran Ashraf, described as a senior fellow at Movements.org, participated in the 2009 event. Movements.org featured on their front page recently, information on the upcoming "green" revolution set to feed off the US backed overthrow of the Mubarak regime in Egypt.

Indeed this option is currently being pursued. Brookings specifically mentions threatening Iran with instability as a means to leverage concessions from the government. It goes on to explicitly call for the promotion of unrest within Iran's borders, and when coupled with the crippling sanctions Iran is already under, constitutes an overt act of war as pointed out numerous times by Congressman Ron Paul.

Brookings also suggests the use of military force in conjunction with their staged color revolutions, recognizing Iran's well developed internal security apparatus. This was not done in 2009, but should be considered and looked out for each time the "green" revolutionaries come out into the streets.

 

Quote

Page 113: Supporting Real Terrorism

Despite the shameless bravado displayed throughout the entire report, no section is as shocking as the one titled "Inspiring an Insurgency." Brookings is outright advocating the funding, training, and triggering of a a full-blown armed insurgency. The report specifically mentions Ahvazi Arab separatists, which would later be the subject of Seymour Hersh's "Preparing the Battlefield" where he exposes the option as already being set in motion within Iran.

Kurds in the north, and Baluch rebels near Pakistan in the east are also mentioned as potential receipients of US aid in conducting their campaigns of armed terror against the Iranian people. The CIA is selected to handle supplies and training, while Brookings suggests that options for more direct military support also be considered.

In their subsection, "Finding a Proxy," Brookings describes how the use of ethnic tensions could fuel unrest. It laments the fact that many ethnic minorities still hold nationalism as a priority along with their fellow Persians. And despite being on America's official terrorist list for having previously killed US military men, the Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK) are given ample consideration within Brookings' report.

In their subsection, "Finding a Conduit and Safe Haven," Brookings describes various methods of harboring their stable of US funded terrorists within the nations currently occupied by US troops and how to ferry them in and out of Iran between operations.
 

 

Quote

Page 145: Bringing it all Together

Brookings suggests that no single option is meant to stand alone. It suggests that options be pursued concurrently. Apparently Brookings' advice has been taken to heart as we have seen in the news, from Seymour Hersh's reports of covert US-backed terrorists, to the overtly staged "green" revolutions, to the sabotage and assassinations plaguing Iran's nuclear program.While it is quite obvious that many of Brookings' policies are being carried out verbatim, what is most alarming is what's suggested next should these combined ploys fail.
 

"A policy determined to overthrow the government of Iran might very well include plans for a full-scale invasion as a contingency for extreme circumstances. Certainly, if various forms of covert and overt support simply failed to produce the desired effect, a president determined to produce regime change in Iran might consider an invasion as the only other way to achieve that end.

Moreover, the United States would have to expect Iran to fight back against American regime change operations, as it has in the past. Although the Iranians typically have been careful to avoid crossing American red lines, they certainly could miscalculate, and it is entirely possible that their retaliation for U.S. regime change activities would appear to Americans as having crossed just such a threshold.

For example, if Iran retaliated with a major terrorist attack that killed large numbers of people or a terrorist attack involving WMDs—especially on U.S. soil—Washington might decide that an invasion was the only way to deal with such a dangerous Iranian regime.

Indeed, for this same reason, efforts to promote regime change in Iran might be intended by the U.S. government as deliberate provocations to try to goad the Iranians into an excessive response that might then justify an American invasion."

This 'government', meaning the USA - Israel (Im not even bothering trying to identify these states as governed by two seperate governments anymore, as no two nations on this earth have such a symbiotic relationship as these do, especially now) do not only pose the most stringent threat to worldpeace and the global population, but they in fact constitute thesame threat to their own constituancy. 

The template of attack described in this document is not 'new', and is not only used against Iran. It effectively describes exactly what we have seen happen in several nations around the globe. The evidence of blatant deceit, as well as blatant warcrimes in the not so distant past is so pervasive, so vast.. it makes the case against the Syrian government look like a comedy show.

So again; we have to look at our selves here to unravel this gordian knot of sheer (force fed) delusion in realizing that A.- our 'free press' poses an immediate danger to our combined well being (I can not stress this enough, all this BS is facilitated by a corporate owned, highly biased, actively deceptive mainstream medialandscape) and B.- the level of truely sickening double measures we have grown accustomed to will undoubtedly lead to our own demize.
 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Phaeton80

[bee]

 

And just when you think the Salisbury Farce couldn't get any worse the Director General of the OPCW makes 
a monumental boo boo - showing that he has practically no idea of what he's talking about -

and this is the organization that people of good faith are trusting to be knowledgeable and impartial... ?
on who's words and reports wars could be fought...?....international relationships sullied...?
 

Independent article

 quote.... 

The international chemical weapons watchdog has backtracked on a suggestion that as much as 100 grams of nerve agent may have been used in the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripaland his daughter Yulia.

Ahmet Uzumcu, director general of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), had said the relatively large quantities of novichok used suggested it had been created as a weapon rather than for research purposes.

But a new OPCW statement said the organisation was not able to “estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used” in the incident.

The spokesman added however: “The quantity should probably be characterised in milligrams.”

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by bee

[ian hacktorp]

Anyone seen or heard from the Skripals?

Anyone?  Anyone?

[Phaeton80]

It has been stated / implied here on numerous occasions summizing a double layer is at hand concerning the recent 'Evil Russia' narrative is 'conspiracy nutter' rhetoric.. Eventhough political trends like these are, as a rule, multidimensional, and should never be regarded in a vacuum..

An interesting piece on that particular aspect of the story..

Quote

Army document: US strategy to ‘dethrone’ Putin for oil pipelines might provoke WW3

Senior DIA, Air Force and Army officials admit that NATO expansionism and US covert interference in Russian internal politics may trigger “next global conflict”

A US Army document concedes the real interests driving US military strategy toward Russia: dominating oil pipeline routes, accessing the vast natural resources of Central Asia, and enforcing the expansion of American capitalism worldwide.

The Russians are coming. They hacked our elections. They are lurking behind numerous alternative political movements and news outlets. Such is the overwhelming chorus from traditional reporting on Russia, which sees the United States as being under threat from fanatical Russian expansionism — expansionism which has gone so far as to interfere dramatically in the 2016 Presidential elections.

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/army-study-us-strategy-to-dethrone-putin-for-oil-pipelines-might-provoke-ww3-9b1d9dbe6be9

 

[bmk1245]

19 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

It has been stated / implied here on numerous occasions summizing a double layer is at hand concerning the recent 'Evil Russia' narrative is 'conspiracy nutter' rhetoric.. Eventhough political trends like these are, as a rule, multidimensional, and should never be regarded in a vacuum..

An interesting piece on that particular aspect of the story..

 

Neat, but lets see other side as well:

Quote

Without prompting, 38 percent named Stalin, followed by Putin at 34 percent, in a tie with Alexander Pushkin, the renowned 19th-century poet often referred to as “the Shakespeare of Russia.”

(link)

Meaning, 38 percent support this:

parade in Brest (1939)

and annexation of Baltic states, and assault on Finland, and GULAG, and 1937 purge, and anti-semitism, and golodomor...

 

[bmk1245]

For those who interested in history - USSR assault on Finland

 

[Space Commander Travis]

^ The relevance of which to anything at all to do with the present day exists only in the mind of Borish Johnson. 

[bmk1245]

23 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

^ The relevance of which to anything at all to do with the present day exists only in the mind of Borish Johnson. 

It does, it shows how "peaceful" russkies are.

[Farmer77]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

For those who interested in history - USSR assault on Finland

 

Just finished the first documentary in that video. Thanks for the share I'm fascinated by the little guy takes on the behemoth lessons from history. 

[bmk1245]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Just finished the first documentary in that video. Thanks for the share I'm fascinated by the little guy takes on the behemoth lessons from history. 

Glad it was useful.

[bee]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

not in person but in some way like skype I suppose......

 

correction --- they DO want to see them in person --- but of course the Skripals wouldn't instantly be whipped away to Siberia - 

they would probably be visited by Russian Embassy Officials at a place of their choosing... and under supervision if they wished..?

 

 

[Phaeton80]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

It does, it shows how "peaceful" russkies are.

Does it.

Quote

America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

Ah, but those evil Russians.. theyre, you know, evil.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Phaeton80

[bmk1245]

1 minute ago, Phaeton80 said:

Does it.

Ah, but those evil Russians.. theyre, you know, evil.

Dude, draw russkie war expendences

Damn, why russophiles so stupid?

[Phaeton80]

16 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Dude, draw russkie war expendences

Damn, why russophiles so stupid?

Well, we cant all be as intelligent as your fine self, can we.

Also, 'expendences' doesnt seem to be an actual word. We stupid people like to use those to, you know, understand eachother.

[bmk1245]

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Well, we cant all be as intelligent as your fine self, can we.

Also, 'expendences' doesnt seem to be an actual word. We stupid people like to use those to, you know, understand eachother.

Yeap, my bad. Sorry.  Stand by the rest, though...

[bee]

 

well at last we see Yulia Skripal after her miraculous recovery from the world's deadliest nerve agent...

this is described as an interview but I don't think she was asked any questions..

there was an appearance at an undisclosed location (in London?),a written statement signed on camera and a short verbal statement in Russian - 

she said that after looking after her Dad as he recovers she hopes to return home to Russia...

 

 

link for statement

[bee]

 

oh and Sergie Skripal has left hospital now as well -

 

 

[stevewinn]

Highlights just how good the UK health service is, able to not only identify but treat the poisoning. Treatment and long term care will be on going for months to come. i don't know why people are shocked or surprised by the ability of the UK health Service to treat such poisoning cases. after all the UK authorities, Police, Fire, Ambulance and Hospitals hold  training exercises in the event of a chemical attack. The NHS is one of the top health services in the world. The trouble is the treatment given and the recovery of the Skripals will only further the conspiracy theorists beliefs, But this is the difference between real life and what people see in the movies.

 

 

[bee]

 

the fact that the Skripals both conked out at the exact same time on that bench is strange -

especially now the 'novichok' on door handle at Sergie's home... is the favoured point of alleged contamination...

one account I saw said that they didn't die and just got seriously ill because the nerve agent on the door handle was
diluted because of damp weather... another that it was an oily type substance that could stick on and stay on the
surface for extended time....not affected by weather ---

say one of them.... hours later after driving into Salisbury and going to a restaurant started to feel peculiar and ill -
the other one would get help or call an ambulance... but no - they both conked out at the exact same time.. on the bench -
hours after being contaminated...

Sherlock Holmes or Miss Marple would suspect, I think, that the contamination took place on the bench or possibly in the
restaurant as they were leaving - giving them time to feel wooozy and quickly sit down on the bench...?

but i haven't seen any where that 'novichok' or any nerve agent (military grade nerve agent?) has a delayed effect...?

and in this case - that the delay is so precise that two people would be rendered helpless and struggling at the exact same time...

 

 

 

 

[Phaeton80]

Im going to go out on a limb here and claim this whole thing was not what it has been promoted as, ie. a lie.

All variables point to this conclusion, given the 'secret evidence' (the only aspect which could counter the mentioned variables pointing to faul play by the British) supposedly held by GB has been proven to be.. non existent.

Quote

This week, the German government informed a parliamentary oversight committee during a closed hearing that it still has not received any evidence suggesting that Russia might well be behind the incident that took place in early March, German TV station RBB reports.

“It is [still] only known that the poison used in the attack was a nerve agent called Novichok, which was once produced in the Soviet Union,” Michael Goetschenberg, a correspondent of German ARD and an expert on security services, told RBB, commenting on the results of the hearing, which he is familiar with.

Apart from this information, which was released by the British authorities soon after the incident, no new data on Russia’s alleged implication in this case was provided to Germany so far, he added.

German intelligence has also found no Russian trace in this case so far, Goetschenberg said.

“The BND, Germany’s foreign intelligence… has also contacted its own sources and tried to verify the information [about Russia’s potential involvement] in some way,” he told RBB, adding that it eventually failed to find any evidence pointing to Moscow as well.

https://www.inforadio.de/programm/schema/sendungen/int/201806/07/242933.html

A basic break down of the main case as proposed by the British:

Quote

“Mr Speaker, on Monday I set out that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a Novichok: a military grade nerve agent developed by Russia. Based on this capability, combined with their record of conducting state sponsored assassinations – including against former intelligence officers whom they regard as legitimate targets – the UK government concluded it was highly likely that Russia was responsible for this reckless and despicable act. And there were only two plausible explanations.

Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country. Or conceivably, the Russian government could have lost control of a military-grade nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.”

Leaving aside Mrs May’s allegations for a moment, any impartial observer would immediately notice something odd about this. Her statement was made on 14th March. This was just 10 days since the Skripals were poisoned. At that time, the investigation had hardly begun, and had not yet established any of the following basic facts:

• Where the Skripals were poisoned
• When the Skripals were poisoned
• How they were poisoned
• Who it was that poisoned them.

In other words, she reached conclusions before the establishing of facts, and it goes without saying that this is the very opposite of a rational approach. Indeed, as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle warned us through his most famous creation, Sherlock Holmes:

“It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

But what of her actual claims? The statement that Russia has a record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations is entirely irrelevant to establishing guilt in this case. Past behaviour can be useful evidence to support a case, but guilt must always be proved on the basis of the facts and evidence in the case at hand, and on them alone. Anything else is simply dangerous and wrong.

Which means that the Government’s case essentially relies on just two parts:

1. That Mr Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, along with Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, were poisoned by the military grade nerve agent, A-234 (one of the so-called “Novichok” nerve agents).
2. That because this substance was developed in Russia (actually the Soviet Union), it therefore must have originated from that country.

However, both of these apparent facts are demonstrably untrue.

To take the second point first, it has now been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that a number of other countries have either produced the substance, or know how to produce it. The Czech Government has admitted producing a small quantity of the closely related substance, A-230; Iran has produced Novichok, which it registered with the OPCW; The German Intelligence Agency, BND, was given the formula back in the 1990s, and they shared it with a number of other NATO countries, including the US and UK. The Edgewood Chemical and Biological Defense Command in Maryland, USA, recorded the formula back in 1998.

What is more, as the Moon of Alabama website points out, David Collum, Professor of Organic Chemistry at Cornell University has not only stated that his students could create the substance, but he actually got them to do an experiment to make it. According to the results, 15 out of 16 students did so successfully!

..All of which means that the claim that the poison must have come from Russia is demonstrably untrue.

But if analysis of that second claim shows the British Government’s theory to be somewhat dodgy, scrutiny of the first shows it to be entirely false. Given the toxicity of A-234, being around 5-8 times more toxic than VX (some reports state it as being 10 times more toxic), had the Skripals come into contact with it on the door handle of Mr Skripal’s house, as is alleged, one of two things would have occurred:

a) They would either have died within a few minutes of coming into contact with it or

In the remote possibility that they had survived, they would have suffered for the rest of their short lives from irreparable damage to their central nervous system, with a number of chronic health issues, such as cirrhosis, toxic hepatitis, and epilepsy (see here for details of what I understand to be the only known survivor of poisoning by this substance, Andrei Zheleznyakov).

What they would not have done is spent the next four hours swanning around Salisbury, going for a drink and then for a meal in a restaurant. What they would not have done is to exhibit symptoms closer to having been poisoned by a hallucinogenic than a military grade nerve agent. And they most certainly would not have collapsed at exactly the same time as each other, four hours later, after showing no previous signs of illness in the restaurant.

Yet as it is, not only are the Skripals and D.S. Bailey still alive, but none have suffered irreparable damage to their nervous system. In fact, in her conversation with her cousin, Viktoria, on 5^th April, Yulia Skripal specifically made mention that “everyone’s health is fine, there are no irreparable things“.

http://www.theblogmire.com/joining-some-dots-on-the-skripal-case-part-1-an-official-story-that-doesnt-hold-water/

Scandalous behaviour, truely truely scandalous. The fact so many Brits continue to grasp onto the official 'Russian conspiracy' narrative (even allowing people who ask questions instead of blindly falling in line to be character assassinated) while not demanding the necessary proof to do so, is excessively disconcerting. Especially, especially given the fact the very same people have been provenly lied to by the very same elements in a remarkably similar scenario in the not so distant past. Which forebares very little 'good' for the near future. With a 'free press' and gullible, malleable public like that, everything is possible. Everything.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Phaeton80

[stevewinn]

3 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Im going to go out on a limb here and claim this whole thing was not what it has been promoted as, ie. a lie.

All variables point to this conclusion, given the 'secret evidence' (the only aspect which could counter the mentioned variables pointing to faul play by the British) supposedly held by GB has been proven to be.. non existent.

A basic break down of the main case as proposed by the British:

Scandalous behaviour, truely truely scandalous. The fact so many Brits continue to grasp onto the official 'Russian conspiracy' narrative (even allowing people who ask questions instead of blindly falling in line to be character assassinated) while not demanding the necessary proof to do so, is excessively disconcerting. Especially, especially given the fact the very same people have been provenly lied to by the very same elements in a remarkably similar scenario in the not so distant past. Which forebares very little 'good' for the near future. With a 'free press' and gullible, malleable public like that, everything is possible. Everything.

How many people are involved in your conspiracy to date? first it was a few in the British secret service, then it was the British Police authority, then it was all the doctors and nursing staff in the NHS hospital who treated the Skripals, and then it went international with the OPCW getting involved, all those experts from independent laboratories from around the world also had to sign up to the conspiracy. Its just silly. 

[bee]

they are still going with the door as the place where the contamination took place --

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/06/skripal-attack-police-close-in-on-time-poison-was-used

She did not leave until 9.15am on Sunday, when she and her father got into his car and drove to a location in Salisbury. By 4.15pm that day, the pair were found on a bench in Salisbury town centre, gravely ill.

Being able to narrow down the time when the poison was placed on the door has allowed investigators to concentrate resources as they race to identify those responsible.

 

re underlined - oh --- I thought they knew who was responsible STRAIGHT AWAY - and that's why all the Russian Diplomats  were expelled 

 

[Phaeton80]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

How many people are involved in your conspiracy to date? first it was a few in the British secret service, then it was the British Police authority, then it was all the doctors and nursing staff in the NHS hospital who treated the Skripals, and then it went international with the OPCW getting involved, all those experts from independent laboratories from around the world also had to sign up to the conspiracy. Its just silly. 

I said " Im going to go out on a limb here and claim this whole thing was not what it has been promoted as, ie. a lie." 

It doesnt hold any water, as a whole, and in detail. If some 'smoking gun' was withheld (for the general public or anyone for that matter), it could have changed everything.. (ie. still implicated Russia). But as it stands, deathening silence, for months now.. even at intergovernmental level.. not even a mention of any upcoming information.. thereby confirming they executed their public hanging of Russia based on the flimsy body of 'evidence' they had. Its very hard not to add this red flag to all the others that went before it, a pattern of geo strategical deception, of a type manufactured by GB.