Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[Phaeton80]

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

So now the whole thing is about a US plot to invade Syria ? 

Or possibly the Globalists ? 

I'm amazed nobody has managed to blame the whole thing on Israel yet. Ah well.... there are still a few hours of daylight left...  

Oh typical, so very typical.

Ignore the factual content provided and zoom in on the conspiracy categorizable parts of it why not. Oy vey, Gardener of Roofs, you predictable yet lovable character you. Thats qute.

[bee]

8 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Running and hiding isn't the answer, the chairman of the labour party on TV today said Russia did it.

 

hiding from what.... an unsolved crime where a Russian Spy - a double agent (and daughter and PC) - was contaminated in his house by a nerve
agent that's supposed to be the most dangerous on earth.... but it didn't kill him - 

 

[stevewinn]

Putin just won a fourth term. 73.9% another 6 years of Vlad.

[bee]

1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

Putin just won a fourth term. 73.9% another 6 years of Vlad.

 

Good  -

the people of Russia have spoken -  they know what they would be in for with a weak leader -  
It would be the end of their country as they know it -

 

[LV-426]

1 hour ago, Phaeton80 said:

Oh you think Im a Putin fan for supplying this content, is that it? How very refreshing LV-426. I think the man is a criminal in the broadest sense of the word. Does that sparkle with you?

I haven't made any assumptions. I simply asked you questions regarding Putin, based on your input in this thread.

What am I supposed to think though, when your answers can be summed up with...

No proof.

Warmongering West.

Criticism of Putin is like pulling teeth.

 

1 hour ago, Phaeton80 said:

..Let me ask you something though; why is the answer to questioning comically lacking 'proof', used again as a pretext of a casus belli, always ad hominem rhetoric like 'West Hater', or 'Putin Lover'?

You say lack of proof.

I choose to believe that the entire British Parliament, the heads of allied nations such as the US, France and Germany, along with NATO aren't lying to us - the people that are privvy to any actual evidence, unlike the rest of us.

You remember why NATO was setup right? The Berlin Blockade and all that?

I absolutely believe in evidence, but my initial response in not seeing it - hardly surprising given that this is highly sensitive information on production of a chemical weapon - is not to assume that my own elected government are lying their asses off, while someone with a proven track record such as Putin is the victim of a mad conspiracy theory.

If evidence is your main concern though, maybe you should ask Russia's EU ambassador for his evidence that this agent was manufactured at Porton Down:

Russia spy row: UK lab could be poison source, says ambassador

A pretty imprssive deduction, given that Russia apparently don't even know what the agent is...

 

1 hour ago, Phaeton80 said:

Edit:

'Lmfao'

Yes, lets 'put aside any question of the ethical actions of our own nations for a moment', and shine the line on Putin for a change.. given 'we' have criticised the West to a tiresome degree up until now.

Youre funny.

You, along with others, seem to have put plenty forward to back your views on Western actions.

I don't see Western nations as free from blood on their hands, but I also don't see the point in putting all the focus on Western actions when we're talking about an attack on British soil. It's like blaming someone for getting punched in the face, because they've been involved in fights before...

[LV-426]

1 hour ago, bee said:

yes - and maybe get a few extra tins in and some bottled water because IF the S hits the fan over all this 
the supermarket shelves will be empty with 24 hours....

I'm not joking

You started this thread and are pushing the Bid Bad Putin narrative...

Are you willing to die in a war over it all..... ?.....imagine that -- Britain destroyed and destabilized over the botched poisoning
of a Double Agent...a Russian spy.... (who ever was behind it )..... 

*slow hand clap*

Do you honestly think this is another Iraq?

Do you think that May's doing a Blair, manufacturing evidence, and pushing for Armageddon with Russia, and all the agencies involved are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect?

Just for one brief moment, forget your bias, and ask yourself what should we do if Russia is guilty as charged.

Should we just say nothing at all, and allow chemical weapons to be used without recourse on British soil?

57 minutes ago, bee said:

Good  -

the people of Russia have spoken -  they know what they would be in for with a weak leader -  
It would be the end of their country as they know it -

Let me put the same question to you that I put to Phaeton, regarding Putin:

2 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Do you have any criticism for him?

What is your opinion on his reputed $200 billion wealth and the financial situation in Russia, for example?

What do you think of the suspicious deaths of his critics, at home and abroad, e.g:

Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways

All Western propaganda?

[hetrodoxly]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Putin just won a fourth term. 73.9% another 6 years of Vlad.

Who would have guessed.

[RoofGardener]

He won against Stiff opposition !

All the opposition leaders where dead... or imprisoned... or barred from standing. It was a farce, and recognised by the world as such. 

It was not an election, it was a coronation, as the saying goes

1 hour ago, Phaeton80 said:

Oh typical, so very typical.

Ignore the factual content provided and zoom in on the conspiracy categorizable parts of it why not. Oy vey, Gardener of Roofs, you predictable yet lovable character you. Thats qute.

Well, it was yourself who posted the link about it all being a US plot to invade Syria  

[bee]

13 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Do you honestly think this is another Iraq?

Do you think that May's doing a Blair, manufacturing evidence, and pushing for Armageddon with Russia, and all the agencies involved are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect?

Just for one brief moment, forget your bias, and ask yourself what should we do if Russia is guilty as charged.

Should we just say nothing at all, and allow chemical weapons to be used without recourse on British soil?

 

Let me put the same question to you that I put to Phaeton, regarding Putin:

All Western propaganda?

 

I'm a bit tired but I will give you a brief reply and try to answer your many questions even though you didn't answer the ONE I asked ...
 

 May could be lying like Blair lied.... she might be because it could be required of her via her advisers,,,,
or she could be being fed lies.... and she thinks it's going to make her more popular... but I think she is wrong
about that...

in the Westminster bubble they could be getting carried away with the whole thing and playing politics rather than
behaving like grown ups who have serious responsibilities to the people of this country - truth is I think they are behaving
like idiots..... dangerous idiots...

oh FFS ---- all those questions... so easy to throw out questions about complex issues that require a lot of thought and explanation...
isn't it... I will have to come back to  a couple tomorrow or something -

 oh and all the other questions......

you asked (my replies bolded)

Do you have any criticism for him?

not really - I think he is doing a good job for his country under difficult circumstances and severe
provocation from the West...and obviously the citizens of Russia have confidence in him... 

What is your opinion on his reputed $200 billion wealth and the financial situation in Russia, for example?

I've been in a discussion about that before and I think it all turned out to be BS and he's not got that kind
of money - but it suits the anti Putin narrative to spread rumours like that -

What do you think of the suspicious deaths of his critics, at home and abroad, e.g:

Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways

I don't suppose we have a really clear picture of what went on with all that and it could be shenanigans to do with spies and whatnot -
It's a dangerous line of employment I would think... 

 

 
 

 

[bee]

 

John Pilger wraps it all up nicely IMO.... well there's nothing nice about all this but you know what I mean  
 

'Skripal case is a carefully-constructed drama' - John Pilger

Russia-UK relations plunge amid row over the poisoning of a former spy. Award-winning journalist John Pilger joins RT to discuss this issue.

 

 

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, bee said:

 

John Pilger wraps it all up nicely IMO.... well there's nothing nice about all this but you know what I mean  
 

'Skripal case is a carefully-constructed drama' - John Pilger

I'm not sure that the Skripal's would agree ? It isn't a drama, it's attempted murder ! (and it will probably succeed, as I doubt either of the Skripals will ever recover.)

[bee]

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm not sure that the Skripal's would agree ? It isn't a drama, it's attempted murder ! (and it will probably succeed, as I doubt either of the Skripals will ever recover.)

 

but  you think the policeman will recover.. ?

ALL the details seem unclear at the moment ......  even if it was attempted murder or an attempt to make it look like attempted murder -

Is it even clear where Nick Bailey the policeman was contaminated..... at the bench, at Skripal's house,,, in Skripal's car...
 

Telegraph 9th March

Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, who is being treated in hospital, was made seriously ill after being sent to Colonel Skripal’s house in Salisbury.

Det Sgt Bailey was one of the first police officers to attend the house in a cul-de-sac a few hours after Col Skripal and his daughter Yulia collapsed in Salisbury town centre.

The admission he was made ill at the house was made by Lord Blair, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, in a BBC interview.

end quote

 

Telegraph 15th March

Concern for the family of the police officer who went to the aid of the poisoned Russian spy has grown after Army and police sealed off his street and began work to remove his car for examination.

Speculation grew that Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey may have carried traces of the nerve agent Novichok home with him after attempting to resuscitate Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

end quote

 

[bee]

 

13 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

I do hope so.

..I think in that sense Syria is centre stage at this point, where two of the main geo political blocks have engaged and are engaging eachother through proxies. They arent the US & UK armies though, not yet. This ofcourse could very well be a prelude to just that; a direct conflict between them. The interests, significance of that area cannot be overstated. Pivotal.

 

12 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Yes, I think thats a highly plausible scenario, one that at least should be considered, seriously. But we digress..

 

you know.... we might not be digressing and this Skripal 'incident' could be integral to the next stages in Syria... 

so that when what is said below happens everyone goes..... well remember what they did in Salisbury blah blah blah

Trump would be persuaded to '''go in''' if chemical weapons were used and Britain could join in if the public were broadly
in agreement ...... the Salisbury incident could tip the balance and would be used to justify and bolster the UK ''''going in'''''

....................so .........................

 

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2018/03/14/russian-claims-that-us-is-planning-a-false-flag-chemical-weapons-attack-is-a-distraction-pentagon-sa

On Tuesday, Russian officials claimed that militants are preparing to use

 chemical agents in Syria, and intend to put the blame on the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, according to Tass, a state-run news agency in Russia.

Russian Army Gen. Valery Gerasimov said that the United States is planning to then use the chemical attack as a way to "furnish the so-called ‘evidence’ of the alleged mass civilian deaths through the fault of the Syrian government and the Russian leadership supporting it."

"As a countermeasure, Washington plans to deliver a missile and bomb strike against Damascus’ government districts," Gerasimov said, according to Tass.

 

 

[bee]

11 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Do you honestly think this is another Iraq?

see my previous post

perhaps this is another Iraq...... time will tell

Cameron was all for attacking the Syrian army in 2013 until Ed Miliband stopped him..

Perhaps they are going to give it another shot but this time they are getting a good propaganda incident going first
to make sure the MPs all keep in line...

The first casualty of war is truth...?

[Space Commander Travis]

Article worth reading about Russophobia here:- cartoon symbol to be feared and hated.

[RoofGardener]

7 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Article worth reading about Russophobia here:- cartoon symbol to be feared and hated.

An intriguing piece of doublethink. The third paragraph is particularly interesting; the author describes forces in "the West" that lead to hatred of Russia. But his description of those forces reads more like a description of the Russian government itself. 

You know, I wasn't really aware of any rise in anti-Russian feelings, until the Russians did things like invading Georgia and Ukraine, and - more recently - attempting to murder people in Britain. There was always a general background suspicion of Russia.... going back to the cold war... but for the most part those suspicions where (and are) well founded. 

[stevewinn]

The news today, A team from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) will visit the UK, they'll conduct their own tests and 20 samples will be sent to 16 different countries for analysis. The findings will be reported to the UN. The OPCW are also asking Russia for access to their facility where this nerve agent has been manufactured. All findings will be reported to the UN. 

[LV-426]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

The news today, A team from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) will visit the UK, they'll conduct their own tests and 20 samples will be sent to 16 different countries for analysis. The findings will be reported to the UN. The OPCW are also asking Russia for access to their facility where this nerve agent has been manufactured. All findings will be reported to the UN. 

Let's hope this provides a conclusive answer.

I have to say though, from what I've seen so far in this thread, some will still dismiss the results as Western propaganda, and question the integrity of the OPCW should results point to renowned philanthropist, Putin

We'll see, I guess.

Edited March 19, 2018 by LV-426

[Phaeton80]

15 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, it was yourself who posted the link about it all being a US plot to invade Syria  

Thats right, and it was you who decided to ignore all the obvious and factual points I forwarded concerning the circus we are witnessing.. inncluding but not limited to the absolutely ridiculous character assassination of Corbyn, only to focus on some link that could be and immediately is categorized as tinfoilhatter content.

You must have an increasingly weak argumentative position to choose to do so. You didnt even address the content of the supposed conspiracy content, you just chose to run with it.

Thats weak stuff Gardener. But we seem to be projecting a reality here where Corbyn, daring to go against the grain based on pure rational is regarded as 'weak', and shallow comments like yours, which are weak in the eyes of.. well.. rational human beings, is liked.. seen as an apt response. 'Winning'   

[Phaeton80]

The fact alone someone like Corbyn is publicly put out to dry enmasse for daring to question a lacking body of evidence should make anyone sit up and take notice. Especially given earlier gleaned results.

Everyone who is able to reconcile this rather self evident idiotic - up side down - situation, is deluding / fooling themselves. As well as everyone who is trying to put people stating as such in the conspiracy nutter corner.

Just know that in the end of the proverbial day, you'll disadvantage no one but yourselves.

 

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Thats right, and it was you who decided to ignore all the obvious and factual points I forwarded concerning the circus we are witnessing.. inncluding but not limited to the absolutely ridiculous character assassination of Corbyn, only to focus on some link that could be and immediately is categorized as tinfoilhatter content.

Umm... yes.. a tinfoihatter link that YOU posted, with the comment ".. some more interesting info"   (original post by Phaeton80)

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

You must have an increasingly weak argumentative position to choose to do so. You didn't even address the content of the supposed conspiracy content, you just chose to run with it.

 I didn't "run with it", I  objected to it, and challenged you on it. As for the "circus we are witnessing", might I suggest that posting stuff like that is what creates (or at least, enables), the "Circus" ? 

Edited March 19, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Phaeton80]

15 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm... yes.. a tinfoihatter link that YOU posted, with the comment ".. some more interesting info"   (original post by Phaeton80)

 I didn't "run with it", I  objected to it, and challenged you on it. As for the "circus we are witnessing", might I suggest that posting stuff like that is what creates (or at least, enables), the "Circus" ? 

Sad thing you would try and ridicule a link I posted as 'interesting content', not as 'truth', while continuing to circumvent the core of my position, which is all but conspiratorial. All this ridiculization of supposed 'conspiracy theories', ofcourse, while you are subscribing to just that based on a comically lacking body of evidence.   (yes, an up side down smiley, seems apt somehow)

In contrast of what you like to believe, you 'challenged' nothing, you merely tried to label certain content as conspiratorial. As a matter of fact, you've managed to not address actual content in almost every reaction you dished out. Seems to me you are acting increasingly childish here. Either that, or you are simply unable to maintain discourse in a mature fashion, ignoring actual content while trying to label posters as 'conspiracy theorists'.

[RoofGardener]

22 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Sad thing you would try and ridicule a link I posted as 'interesting content', not as 'truth', while continuing to circumvent the core of my position, which is all but conspiratorial. All this ridiculization of supposed 'conspiracy theories', ofcourse, while you are subscribing to just that based on a comically lacking body of evidence.   (yes, an up side down smiley, seems apt somehow)

In contrast of what you like to believe, you 'challenged' nothing, you merely tried to label certain content as conspiratorial. As a matter of fact, you've managed to not address actual content in almost every reaction you dished out. Seems to me you are acting increasingly childish here. Either that, or you are simply unable to maintain discourse in a mature fashion, ignoring actual content while trying to label posters as 'conspiracy theorists'.

You didn't post "interesting content", you posted "interesting info ... I think anyway". The implication of that is 

You think it is information
You have read it yourself, and are commending it to others without caveat.

As for me labelling this particular 'content' as "conspiratorial", well GOSH... you THINK ?  I'll let our members make their own mind up. (here's another link to your post... enjoy everybody   

Edited March 19, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Phaeton80]

Jesus.. You can twist and turn all you want Gardener, you know what I say is true.

You are the one who is subscribing to 'a theory' based in an excessively lacking body of proof, circumventing any content that underlines that and other 'best to be ignored' facts, while passionately pointing your finger at others for forwarding 'conspiracy material'.
 

Quote

(here's another link to your post... enjoy everybody   

..So very childish. You know, Gardener, a mature individual would address the rather obvious points I forwarded, discuss them as adults. What do you do? You feverishly focus on the same link over, and over, and over.
Im starting to understand why you would not be appalled by the methods employed against Corbyn for asking questions that, in any other instance, would be deemed self evident.

[Space Commander Travis]

Just one final thought:

Quote

 

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

~H. L. Mencken