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LV-426

Critically ill man is former Russian spy

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Grey Area
1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Report by the OPCW as been released, and - The international chemical weapons watchdog has confirmed the UK's analysis of the type of nerve agent used in the Russian ex-spy poisoning.  The OPCW said it received information about the medical conditions of the Skripals and Det Sgt Nick Bailey, it collected their blood samples, and it gathered samples from the site in Salisbury.

So the UK was correct that it was Novichok and of a high quality grade. only possible by a top state Scientific Laboratory made by experts. 

Who has this Capability, (Russia)  Who was known to have a Novichok programme? (Russia) Who was targeted with the Nerve Agent (Ex-Russian KGB/FSB Agent) 

But according to the Conspiracy theorists. it wasn't Russia it was someone else, but they cant tell us who.

Steve, you laude this verdict as if it is the proof that was lacking.

This verdict changes nothing, it does not name Russia as the culprit, in fact it doesn’t even name the chemical agent as Novichok.

The assumption this was deployed by a state is still just that, an assumption, no matter how likely.

Now with more recent events in focus in Syria,   thanks to the governments very public assumptions, it likely has the support of the populace to Pursue military action against Assad and potentially Russia.  That was a stroke of luck.

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stevewinn
6 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Steve, you laude this verdict as if it is the proof that was lacking.

This verdict changes nothing, it does not name Russia as the culprit, in fact it doesn’t even name the chemical agent as Novichok.

The assumption this was deployed by a state is still just that, an assumption, no matter how likely.

Now with more recent events in focus in Syria,   thanks to the governments very public assumptions, it likely has the support of the populace to Pursue military action against Assad and potentially Russia.  That was a stroke of luck.

The OPCW report confirms the findings of the United Kingdom. The UK stated the chemical agent was one in the Novichok series. therefore the conspiracist technicality "the OPCW havent named it" will not wash and anyone trying that angle are talking through their hat.

It confirms the 'make-up' of the nerve agent and its purity. something that can only be achieved via a world class facility and by experts who know what their doing. - this Novichok was not knocked up over night, its taken years to master.

Russia has the facilities. Russia was known to have a extensive Novichok programme, Russia carries out state supported assassination. and as struck before in the UK, -The target in this case was a' traitor' of the Russian state - Ex-Russian Spy.

On Attributing blame or Naming Russia was and is beyond the remit of the OPCW. we knew this from the start.

You say the report changes nothing. tell Russia. its great to see them scrambling for excuses. It changes nothing except it confirms what the UK said all along, it was a nerve agent. independent proof that the nerve agent was used.

So, let the conspiracy continue, So the OPCW confirmed it was a Nerve agent, High grade, needing top class facilities and experts. So, how did it end up on the streets of the UK, who has access to such facilities or worse who has breached the security and got their hands on this pure grade nerve agent. Its like a rouge getting access to the Porton Down facility. its just not happening.

i look forward to the conspiracy theories...........

 

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bee
31 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

i look forward to the conspiracy theories...........

 

ok - I don't like to disappoint.... ;)

 

31 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

It confirms the 'make-up' of the nerve agent and its purity. something that can only be achieved via a world class facility and by experts who know what their doing. - this Novichok was not knocked up over night, its taken years to master.

 

if it's so pure + made by experts etc etc ----- how come it was so crap and not only did no one die but only Sergie Skripal is still
in hospital and it looks like he's doing quite well from what I've seen....

edit to add..... when I say ''''seen'''' I mean read on the internet... because no one has seen pictures of him in hospital -
since '''IT''' happened...

 

    

Edited by bee

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bee

 

If the what-ever-it-was ''substance''....was part of an Intelligence Operation to soften the public up  for an escalation of war in Syria...
and UK military getting involved - ie. ramp up the anti Russian sentiments ---

then it  (or samples) could have been obtained from Porton Down - in a compartmentalized, need to know...very hush hush way --

like... they are not going to go through official channels....

and let's take this line of enquiry a step further.... IF it was PSYOP and it was in preparation for the (alleged) gassing in Douma
then it was known in advance that there would be a gassing incident....

 

Edited by bee
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RoofGardener
3 minutes ago, bee said:

 

If the what-ever-it-was ''substance''....was part of an Intelligence Operation to soften the public up  for an escalation of war in Syria...
and UK military getting involved - ie. ramp up the anti Russian sentiments ---

then it  (or samples) could have been obtained from Porton Down - in a compartmentalized, need to know...very hush hush way --

like... they are not going to go through official channels....

Well, obviously. Because only "The West" do nasty things. 

Jeez. 

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bee
2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, obviously. Because only "The West" do nasty things. 

Jeez. 


now I didn't say that did I.......

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LV-426
1 minute ago, bee said:

if it's so pure + made by experts etc etc ----- how come it was so crap and not only did no one die but only Sergie Skripal is still

in hospital and it looks like he's doing quite well from what I've seen....   

It probably comes down to the quantity and how and where it was deployed.

I mean, what is the alternative here? Are you suggesting the OPCW are now part of the conspiracy to discredit Russia? Otherwise, why would they lie about the lethal nature of the agent used?

 

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RoofGardener
6 minutes ago, bee said:


now I didn't say that did I.......

 

12 minutes ago, bee said:

 

If the what-ever-it-was ''substance''....was part of an Intelligence Operation to soften the public up  for an escalation of war in Syria...
and UK military getting involved - ie. ramp up the anti Russian sentiments ---

then it  (or samples) could have been obtained from Porton Down - in a compartmentalized, need to know...very hush hush way --

like... they are not going to go through official channels....

So you didn't mean to imply that the Skipoffs where poisoned by the British Government ? 

Really ? 

:P 

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bee
1 minute ago, LV-426 said:

It probably comes down to the quantity and how and where it was deployed.

I mean, what is the alternative here? Are you suggesting the OPCW are now part of the conspiracy to discredit Russia? Otherwise, why would they lie about the lethal nature of the agent used?

 

 

MI6 - CIA - etc etc could have someone inside the organization for such an occasion as this - the False Flag Go To Insider...^_^

The whole chemical weapon thing is very politicized and comes in handy for starting wars based on ---'''gassing his own people'''

I don't know how they would do it --- swap samples perhaps...?

Or there could have been the tiniest teeniest of traces in the Skripals... but how teeny weeny would it have to be to show up but not kill -
considering how super deadly it is supposed to be...

 

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bee
2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

 

So you didn't mean to imply that the Skipoffs where poisoned by the British Government ? 

Really ? 

:P 

 

that's different from implying that I am saying that only the West do nasty things....

we do our fair share of nasty things.... and this might have been one of them....

 

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bee
38 minutes ago, bee said:

 

If the what-ever-it-was ''substance''....was part of an Intelligence Operation to soften the public up  for an escalation of war in Syria...
and UK military getting involved - ie. ramp up the anti Russian sentiments ---

then it  (or samples) could have been obtained from Porton Down - in a compartmentalized, need to know...very hush hush way --

like... they are not going to go through official channels....

and let's take this line of enquiry a step further.... IF it was PSYOP and it was in preparation for the (alleged) gassing in Douma
then it was known in advance that there would be a gassing incident....

 

 

you may well go haha Steve... :) .... ......... @stevewinn
 

in fact re bolded above...

this is a random link - an article from March 13...

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2018/03/14/russian-claims-that-us-is-planning-a-false-flag-chemical-weapons-attack-is-a-distraction-pentagon-says/

 

Quote

On Tuesday, Russian officials claimed that militants are preparing to use chemical agents in Syria, and intend to put the blame on the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, according to Tass, a state-run news agency in Russia.

Russian Army Gen. Valery Gerasimov said that the United States is planning to then use the chemical attack as a way to "furnish the so-called ‘evidence’ of the alleged mass civilian deaths through the fault of the Syrian government and the Russian leadership supporting it."

"As a countermeasure, Washington plans to deliver a missile and bomb strike against Damascus’ government districts," Gerasimov said, according to Tass.

Edited by bee

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Grey Area

Conspiracy theories are really unhelpful and just serve to deflect from the very real issue of whether the lives of thousands, potentially millions should be put in jeapardy without the certainty of proof.

certain things just don’t stack up, like why has there been no mention of any sort of investigation into the person or persons who carried this out?  Why are the Skripal’s still alive?  What was the magic treatment for this deadly nerve agent that only Russia has ever researched and produced?

It comes down to this, I am not comfortable committing our nation to a path that leads directly to armed conflict that may not be justified.  We are better than that.

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stevewinn
12 minutes ago, bee said:

 

MI6 - CIA - etc etc could have someone inside the organization for such an occasion as this - the False Flag Go To Insider...^_^

The whole chemical weapon thing is very politicized and comes in handy for starting wars based on ---'''gassing his own people'''

I don't know how they would do it --- swap samples perhaps...?

Or there could have been the tiniest teeniest of traces in the Skripals... but how teeny weeny would it have to be to show up but not kill -
considering how super deadly it is supposed to be...

 

 

Russia is a signatory of the CW and members of the OPCW.

The OPCW have not named Russia or attributed blame. The OPCW Have only confirmed it was a Nerve Agent. Why has Russia refused to accept this finding? surely they could accept the findings of the OPCW and still maintain Russia was not involved. but they haven't, the line from Russia is the UK is wrong and so is the OPCW.

The OPCW took their own samples and that includes blood samples from the victims. So, to keep the conspiracy alive the UK govt or MI5/6 have injected the victims with just enough nerve agent without killing them. contaminated various sites and done all this without the experts from the OPCW realising.

Russia as come unstuck on this occasion.

 

 

 

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bee
1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

So, to keep the conspiracy alive the UK govt or MI5/6 have injected the victims with just enough nerve agent without killing them. contaminated various sites and done all this without the experts from the OPCW realising.

 

this is fun isn't it...... :D

no they would not need to go as far as injecting the knocked out and captured Skripals with a miniscule amount of nerve agent -

but you're starting to get the hang of this... I might make an intelligence agent out of you yet.... B).....:lol: 

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bee
8 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Conspiracy theories are really unhelpful and just serve to deflect from the very real issue of whether the lives of thousands, potentially millions should be put in jeapardy without the certainty of proof.

certain things just don’t stack up, like why has there been no mention of any sort of investigation into the person or persons who carried this out?  Why are the Skripal’s still alive?  What was the magic treatment for this deadly nerve agent that only Russia has ever researched and produced?

It comes down to this, I am not comfortable committing our nation to a path that leads directly to armed conflict that may not be justified.  We are better than that.

 

If there IS actually a conspiracy then IMO, it is helpful to explore that possibility because as you say... potentially the lives of millions
could be in jeopardy -  

you bring up some good points above... 

re the bolded above... if it wasn't for Ed Miliband back in 2013 blocking David Cameron in the Commons from
joining America and committing British military to destroying the Syrian Army - the Islamic State and other Islamist
groups and foreign fighters and mercenaries would probably have turned the whole of Syria into another Libya...

it looks like Theresa May doesn't want to risk a commons vote and is in lock step with those who want to attack the Syrian
Army --- the Syrian army that has been going through hell for years trying to stop the country being taken over by extreme islamists...

IMO ---if we ''''go in'''' we are helping the Islamic State and affiliated groups--- and to me that is not just fking STUPID but unforgivable..

 

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bee
36 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

The OPCW have not named Russia or attributed blame. The OPCW Have only confirmed it was a Nerve Agent. Why has Russia refused to accept this finding? surely they could accept the findings of the OPCW and still maintain Russia was not involved. but they haven't, the line from Russia is the UK is wrong and so is the OPCW.

 

probably because they were not given samples to test themselves.... were not allowed to participate in the investigation process -
and were treated with extreme disrespect and provocation by Johnson, May etc,,, 

Also they are ''''highly likely''' to be aware that the Skripal business is an integral part of the Fake Chemical Weapon attack in Douma, Syria -
designed to draw in military intervention by the US / France and the UK....... same combo that destabilized and destroyed Libya...


 

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The Truman show
1 minute ago, bee said:

 

probably because they were not given samples to test themselves.... were not allowed to participate in the investigation process -
and were treated with extreme disrespect and provocation by Johnson, May etc,,, 

Also they are ''''highly likely''' to be aware that the Skripal business is an integral part of the Fake Chemical Weapon attack in Douma, Syria -
designed to draw in military intervention by the US / France and the UK....... same combo that destabilized and destroyed Libya...


 

i see your point. it does sound a bit like Gulf war 2 reloaded with all this chemical weapons business igniting the possibility of war again in Syria. i guess if Russia wanted the Skripal's dead then they could have killed them back in Russia before they were exchanged for other spy's. 

Still i real don't understand how killing with chemical weapons is any more vicious that say bombardment with arty or air to surface bomb's. maybe they did use the gas to clear and hurry the war's end. Assad and Russia have won and now the west is p***ed because gas was used to kill a dozen or so people. Hell, some say 500,000 were killed in the last 7 years and not a peep outta anyone. killing with guns and bomb's is more acceptable i guess. 

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stevewinn
7 minutes ago, bee said:

 

probably because they were not given samples to test themselves.... were not allowed to participate in the investigation process -
and were treated with extreme disrespect and provocation by Johnson, May etc,,, 

Also they are ''''highly likely''' to be aware that the Skripal business is an integral part of the Fake Chemical Weapon attack in Douma, Syria -
designed to draw in military intervention by the US / France and the UK....... same combo that destabilized and destroyed Libya...


 

The UN-OPCW for which the UK and Russia are members. The Investigation by UN-OPCW was Independent. Having either Russia or the UK as part of the Investigation would not be independent. As it turned out the Independent investigation found the UK was correct that the Nerve agent Novichok was detected, contaminating public areas and in the blood samples of three victims.

As for Syria, its been going on since 2011. 7 years. linking what is two separate events becomes easier with the length of time. There is Geopolitics as in Russia/Ukraine/Crimea. But the Assassination attempt and Syria are not linked.

 

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bee
1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

But the Assassination attempt and Syria are not linked.

 

 

I honestly do not know how you can be so sure.... 

but you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.....

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stevewinn
2 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I honestly do not know how you can be so sure.... 

but you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.....

Because to believe they are means the British state and not the Russian is responsible for the Assassination attempt.

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bee
9 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

i see your point. it does sound a bit like Gulf war 2 reloaded with all this chemical weapons business igniting the possibility of war again in Syria. i guess if Russia wanted the Skripal's dead then they could have killed them back in Russia before they were exchanged for other spy's. 

Still i real don't understand how killing with chemical weapons is any more vicious that say bombardment with arty or air to surface bomb's. maybe they did use the gas to clear and hurry the war's end. Assad and Russia have won and now the west is p***ed because gas was used to kill a dozen or so people. Hell, some say 500,000 were killed in the last 7 years and not a peep outta anyone. killing with guns and bomb's is more acceptable i guess. 

 

I'm getting a bit tired now - but this is a question that needs pondering on..... 

And what about depleted uranium.... used in Iraq that may still be causing horrific birth defects and could have been one of
the main causes of Gulf War Syndrome in soldiers - but that's another story --- :( 

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The Truman show
4 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I'm getting a bit tired now - but this is a question that needs pondering on..... 

And what about depleted uranium.... used in Iraq that may still be causing horrific birth defects and could have been one of
the main causes of Gulf War Syndrome in soldiers - but that's another story --- :( 

all war is sad. and there is no nice way to kill someone. country's don't have feelings and morals, they have interests and use their strengths to secure them. shadowy and clandestine intelligence units make this happen so the politicians can sleep well at night not aware of who really is the bad guy. depleted uranium is just another example. asbestos on old warships another. chemical agents to kill forests in Vietnam. collateral damage.

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bee
8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Because to believe they are means the British state and not the Russian is responsible for the Assassination attempt.

 

that's right...................... (do you want the blue pill or the red pill.... :) ) see Matrix clip below

but even about that point...

they might not have been meant to die.... even that could be fake..... a fake assassination attempt  -

or the Skripals could have been ''''in on it'''' in some way - not saying they were but that can't be completely discounted
under the circumstances.... ie. the Not Dying circumstances...

 

 

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stevewinn
7 minutes ago, bee said:

 

that's right...................... (do you want the blue pill or the red pill.... :) ) see Matrix clip below

but even about that point...

they might not have been meant to die.... even that could be fake..... a fake assassination attempt  -

or the Skripals could have been ''''in on it'''' in some way - not saying they were but that can't be completely discounted
under the circumstances.... ie. the Not Dying circumstances...

 

 

in a word, No.

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bee
1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

in a word, No.

 

Good night

 

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