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Critically ill man is former Russian spy


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18 minutes ago, bee said:


but you believe that the British Intelligence Service is going to be honest about it...?
now they have settled on ''''the story'''' and provided a couple of photos as '''evidence'''

Ask yourself this, who stands to gain more from this? 

Russia has almost killed a double agent. They have demonstrated, again, their power to strike at defectors even if they are given protection by another country. Thanks to gullible conspiracy theorists, they can also spread lies reducing trust in the people who protect us against this sort of thing every day. 

By contrast, all Britain stands to gain by faking this is that countries might impose a few more sanctions on a state that is already sanctioned and distrusted by the west. And that no other potential defectors would trust the UK in the future. 

I would also remind you that, in this country, our intelligence services have to operate within the law and are subject to independent oversight. They can't go murdering people. 

Quote

on the face of it this is a good point - but with a little more consideration....
conversely why would the two Russian men say they went through together if they went through separately..

Strange isn't it? Unless you remember they are Russian spies and the objective is to sow distrust in our own intelligence services. Then you can see the simple chain of events. 

Spies use different gates. 

Britain releases the images showing this. 

Idiots on the internet see the timestamp and immediately jump to conspiracy. 

Non-idiots quickly point out the two gates are visibly different. 

Russian spies realise they can create more distrust in gullible and paranoid people if they say it's the same gate. So they do. 

Anyone with an ounce of critical thinking or even observation (the two gates are clearly different) won't be fooled but the typical 'fake news' crowd will. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Setton said:

I would also remind you that, in this country, our intelligence services have to operate within the law and are subject to independent oversight. They can't go murdering people. 

now who's being gullible...

 

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Me thinks the Setton protesteth too much....^_^

We don't know the real story behind the whole affair... of that I feel sure..

The Skripals could have been used unwittingly in the Chemical Weapon Exercises that were
ongoing not very far away on Salisbury Plain... it is a strange thing that they both conked out
at the same time on the bench ... which would indicate that they were poisoned there rather
in another location miles away at a different time..

Skripal could have been a Triple not Double agent.... and was disposed of and at the same time
used in an anti Russian operation... who knows what the hell goes on in these organizations...

My own opinion is that the least likely story is the one presented to us by the British Government...

 

 

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There was speculation in some quarters that these two "agents", would be liquidated, now that they had been exposed, It seems that was just a touch dramatic.. 

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I am somewhat perplexed by the whole Salisbury attack. 

  1. Very sadly it happened with devastating consequences
  2. Its hard not to see it as a direct attack on the Russian defector and his daughter
  3. this would rule out accidental contamination
  4. I don't see any benefit to the UK authorities to have been involved in the attack (I read such a conspiracy early on)
  5. I can see a reason why Russia would have an interest in attacking the defector - simply by dent of his being a defector
  6. however I cannot fathom the weapon of choice for the hit
  7. Why something that links so clearly back to Russia, diminishing the avenues for plausible deniability
  8. Why use something that is so indiscriminate in its actions that it contaminates the defector's daughter and caused death and serious illness to other innocent people
  9. I don't have any knowledge of Russian (or other) spy capabilities but the attack in Salisbury seems so poorly planned and carried out that it is hard to believe that 'professionals' were involved anywhere along the line
  10. There is no doubt the Russians pictured and named were in Salisbury in the relevant time frame, but do we have anything else or did the authorities just look for evidence of Russians in the vicinity at the right time?
  11. What evidence is there that these individuals were GRU or whatever the label is
  12. Which leads mean to consider - is there another actor, probably Russian being over looked or are Russian spies really that amateur.

 

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18 minutes ago, bee said:

 

Me thinks the Setton protesteth too much....^_^

We don't know the real story behind the whole affair... of that I feel sure..

The Skripals could have been used unwittingly in the Chemical Weapon Exercises that were
ongoing not very far away on Salisbury Plain... it is a strange thing that they both conked out
at the same time on the bench ... which would indicate that they were poisoned there rather
in another location miles away at a different time..

Skripal could have been a Triple not Double agent.... and was disposed of and at the same time
used in an anti Russian operation... who knows what the hell goes on in these organizations...

My own opinion is that the least likely story is the one presented to us by the British Government...

 

 

Utter bunkum. 

  1. What "chemical weapon exercise" ? 
  2. They conked out on the bench because they where both poisoned simultaneously... by the doorknob on their apartment. The Novochic is not like cyanide.. it takes TIME to effect its victims.
  3. Skripal could have been "disposed" off ? By whom ? The British ? The British security services  have NEVER assassinated anyone EVER. 

What - precisely - do YOU think happened, Bee ? 

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1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

The British security services  have NEVER assassinated anyone EVER. 

And I have NEVER broken wind, EVER !

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Just now, Habitat said:

And I have NEVER broken wind, EVER !

Thank you for that constructive contribution to the debate, Habitat !

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Just now, RoofGardener said:

Thank you for that constructive contribution to the debate, Habitat !

Well, unless you have some magical insight the rest of us lack, I doubt your claim can be taken on trust. What about that Commander Bond chappy ? :lol:

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From interview:

Quote

PETROV: It’s not about buying it and bringing it over here in bags. We study the market for new products, including biologically active food supplements, amino acids, vitamins and microelements. Then we come back and decide what we need the most and try to figure out how these new products can be shipped over here. This is an area of our work.

(link)

So, it wouldn't be so hard to check dates of their visits to Europe, and dates of fitness trading fairs/shows.

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6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The British security services  have NEVER assassinated anyone EVER.

Off course they have - they won't tell you about it, they possibly will instruct / facilitate others to do it on their behalf, but they have done it.

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11 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

as a matter of interest have the UK authorities responded to the accusation that they doctored these photos? Did the two men use the same gate channel or two separate gate channels?  

Do I take it then that the UK authorities have not responded to the accusation that they doctored the photos? If they have done so can anyone offer me a link or reference to look at?

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Porton Down is just down the road, and just happen to have some Novichok there ? I really don't know what this is all about, if these two people were assassins, they will be taking a pay cut.

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Just now, Habitat said:

Porton Down is just down the road, and just happen to have some Novichok there ? I really don't know what this is all about, if these two people were assassins, they will be taking a pay cut.

Perhaps a bit more than a pay cut.

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5 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Off course they have - they won't tell you about it, they possibly will instruct / facilitate others to do it on their behalf, but they have done it.

No they they havn't. 

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13 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The British security services  have NEVER assassinated anyone EVER. 

Yes they have. Irish history is littered with many examples.

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1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

Perhaps a bit more than a pay cut.

They were predicted by some to be getting the literal chop, after their pictures appeared, but seem to be at large still.

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5 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Yes they have. Irish history is littered with many examples.

The SAS, and the army, have killed people in Eire.. but not the security services. 

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To think Ian Fleming painted a different picture, but no-one stepped forward to correct his portrayals.

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3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The SAS, and the army, have killed people in Eire.. but not the security services. 

Yes, uniformed security services have, but so too did secret services.

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2 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Yes, uniformed security services have, but so too did secret services.

No they did not.

Neither the Security Services, or the Secret Intelligence Services, have ever assassinated anyone. (well... SOE may have  TRIED during WW2, but that was at a time of war).

Edited by RoofGardener
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2 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Yes, uniformed security services have, but so too did secret services.

As have paramilitaries in collusion with security forces.

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1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

No they did not. 

Yes they did! But to pursue this here would hijack this thread so I suggest you open a new one and I will gladly supply you with the historical evidence.

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33 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Utter bunkum. 

  1. What "chemical weapon exercise" ? 
  2. They conked out on the bench because they where both poisoned simultaneously... by the doorknob on their apartment. The Novochic is not like cyanide.. it takes TIME to effect its victims.
  3. Skripal could have been "disposed" off ? By whom ? The British ? The British security services  have NEVER assassinated anyone EVER. 

What - precisely - do YOU think happened, Bee ? 

 

1. https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2018/march/06/180306-toxic-storm-for-royal-marines-in-major-chemical-exercise

Toxic storm for Royal Marines in major chemical exercise

06/03/2018


2. the whole Novichok thing seems to be a very inexact science - and for the most deadly substance
known to man.... not as strong as they reckon by the look of it... at least not for the Skripals..

funny how the police were completely unprotected when they guarded the Skripal's door... almost
as if someone knew there was no danger there... 

3. yeah ok.... if that's what you want to believe... 


I don't know what happened... like everyone else I can just speculate - I gave you a couple of those
speculations in my other post ... also there's that '''best friend''' who lived next door to Skripal who wanted the doctors
to turn the life support off - maybe he did it and was an MI5/6 asset... I would need to recap on his involvement
on the day it all happened... before fleshing out that speculation..

 

 

Edited by bee
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1 hour ago, bee said:

now who's being gullible...

 

There's rather a difference between understanding the legal process of our country and believing whatever a hostile foreign power tells you. 

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