Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[bee]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

There's rather a difference between understanding the legal process of our country and believing whatever a hostile foreign power tells you. 

 

legal process can be got round, of course.... especially when National Security is invoked -

and who says Russia is a 'hostile' foreign power... ?

best not to automatically believe whatever you are told by ANY power... domestic OR foreign...
 

[Setton]

Just now, bee said:

 

legal process can be got round, of course.... especially when National Security is invoked 

No. It can't. That's why we have independent oversight of our intelligence services. 

[RAyMO]

Just now, Setton said:

No. It can't. That's why we have independent oversight of our intelligence services. 

Except when we don't

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45510662

[hetrodoxly]

These guys say themselves that they flew from Moscow to London, got a train to Salisbury to look at the cathedral, once wasn't enough so they went back the next day then flew home to Moscow, what's not to believe. 

[Habitat]

They haven't heard of surveillance cameras at the GRU Academy ? The whole business is bewildering.

[bee]

 

extract from the article regarding what they say about their movements that couple of days...

https://www.rt.com/news/438356-rt-petrov-boshirov-full-interview/

SIMONYAN: So, you only spent an hour in Salisbury?

PETROV: On March 3? Yes. That’s because it was impossible to get anywhere.

SIMONYAN: What about the next day?

PETROV: On March 4, we went back there, because the snow melted in London, it was warm.

BOSHIROV: It was sunny.

PETROV: And we thought – we really wanted to see Old Sarum and the cathedral. So we decided to give it another try on March 4.

SIMONYAN: Another try to do what?

PETROV: To go sightseeing.

BOSHIROV: To see this famous cathedral. To visit Old Sarum.

SIMONYAN: So, did you see it?

BOSHIROV: Yes, we did.

PETROV: On March 4, we did. But again, by lunchtime, there was heavy sleet.

Edited September 14, 2018 by bee

[bmk1245]

25 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

These guys say themselves that they flew from Moscow to London, got a train to Salisbury to look at the cathedral, once wasn't enough so they went back the next day then flew home to Moscow, what's not to believe. 

Lets see (March 4, 2014):

Quote

Question: But were these Russian soldiers or not?

Vladimir Putin: These were local self-defense forces.

(right from the horse's mouth, i.e. kremlin.ru; you can punch whole interview into google's translator)

What's not to believe, right?

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Yes they did! But to pursue this here would hijack this thread so I suggest you open a new one and I will gladly supply you with the historical evidence.

Jolly good !

I've started the thread here ... 

 

[Setton]

3 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Except when we don't

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45510662

From your article:

Quote

"The Investigatory Powers Act 2016 replaced large parts of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) which was the subject of this challenge," she said.

"This includes the introduction of a 'double lock' which requires warrants for the use of these powers to be authorised by a secretary of state and approved by a judge.

"An Investigatory Powers Commissioner has also been created to ensure robust independent oversight of how these powers are used."

 

[RAyMO]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

From your article:

Ye,s when things came into the open they tightened up.

Also from the article:

"Of greatest concern, however, is the absence of robust independent oversight of the selectors and search criteria used to filter intercepted communications."

The point this indicates is that things do go on which no-one knows anything about.. Until we do find out, is this case via Snowden.

[stevewinn]

Who watched the interview on RT news and come away believing the men? That sort of rubbish might convince a poorly educated population in Russia, but in the UK were critical thinking is part of our educational system it won't wash. Got to give to the men though they had Wikipedia knowledge of the cathedral, size of spire and clock. 

Let the men return to the UK. Face the courts I'm sure if their innocent they'll be found so. No they won't step foot outside of Russia. Wouldn't surprise me if the British police had recovered DNA from the scene. Which directly link the two men, but it would be wise to keep quiet and sit on that information. 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by stevewinn

[Setton]

2 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Who watched the interview on RT news and come away believing the men? That sort of rubbish might convince a poorly educated population in Russia, but in the UK were critical thinking is part of our educational system it won't wash. Got to give to the men though they had Wikipedia knowledge of the cathedral, size of spire and clock. 

Let the men return to the UK. Face the courts I'm sure if their innocent they'll be found so. No they won't step foot outside of Russia. Wouldn't surprise me if the British police had recovered DNA from the scene. Which directly link the two men, but it would be wise to keep quiet and sit on that information. 

 

I did enjoy there reason's for wanting to visit Salisbury. Didn't sound at all like they'd memorised a passage from the guide book 

ETA: Sad thing is, apparently it IS enough to convince some people. Maybe education really does need another overhaul... 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Setton

[bee]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Who watched the interview on RT news and come away believing the men? That sort of rubbish might convince a poorly educated population in Russia, but in the UK were critical thinking is part of our educational system it won't wash. Got to give to the men though they had Wikipedia knowledge of the cathedral, size of spire and clock. 

 

I think you would find that more people in Britain probably believe the two men accused than they
do Theresa May (and Boris Johnson) etc when it comes to all this... claiming the critical thinking moral
high ground is a non starter when it comes to the Skripal case as I would expect the country to be
divided on who are the liars and who aren't... I have watched the men closely during the interview and
I don't see any obvious signs of them lying...

I'll post the full interview in a minute and the comments under it are of interest --- a couple say this..

"I think....They're upto some dodgy dealings (Arthur Daley) stuff but never would the Russian Security Services Hire this two muppets not even for a paint job!

"There is something they're hiding but I don't think it is that they're assassins. Probably its about steroids and synthetic steroids, and probably this is why they didn't want to go straight to the Russian government because to explain themselves they'd basically have to admit to importing illegal drugs."

I was thinking something along these lines myself... that they are being a bit cagey about something
to do with their line of work... and I was thinking that if the Intelligence Service were searching for
a Russian (or two) to frame for the Skripal poisoning that were in Salisbury that day... they must have
thought they'd hit the jackpot with Petrov and Boshirov if they were involved with steroids etc because that
might make them reluctant to come forward.. and could dovetail into the whole Russia / performance enhancing
drugs thing...

but I know you are 100% behind the May Government on this one so you won't like any speculation
in any other direction... ?

 

 

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Let the men return to the UK. Face the courts I'm sure if their innocent they'll be found so. No they won't step foot outside of Russia. Wouldn't surprise me if the British police had recovered DNA from the scene. Which directly link the two men, but it would be wise to keep quiet and sit on that information. 

 

 

Quite honestly if I were the men and I was innocent I would be still be worried about getting bumped off...
In the interview they talk about being scared for themselves and for their families and I can understand why..

the very last thing in the world that Theresa May et al want is for them to be found innocent...
and I don't think that would be allowed to happen...

If the men did mysteriously disappear or die in Britain it would just be blamed on Putin... 

but anyway I know we are on different sides of the fence on this...  

 

[bee]

 

here's the full interview...

 

Exclusive interview with Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov on the Skripal poisoning case in Salisbury.

 

[bee]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Wouldn't surprise me if the British police had recovered DNA from the scene. Which directly link the two men, but it would be wise to keep quiet and sit on that information. 

 

well this is on the Russian Embassy Twitter feed... so if the British want to make a case they will
need to provide some solid evidence... not just a couple of photos...

but I think up to now '''we''' haven't been prepared to communicate properly about any of it to the Russians..

 

 

[bee]

 

and let's hope this latest flurry of Putin / Russia bashing isn't to pave the way for more UK
bombing in Syria...?

also on the Russian Embassy Twitter page...

 

[bmk1245]

1 hour ago, bee said:

 

here's the full interview...

 

Exclusive interview with Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov on the Skripal poisoning case in Salisbury.

 

Well, well, well...

Petrov claims: On March 4, we did. But again, by lunchtime, there was heavy sleet.

But when we look at the weather history for that day in Salisbury, we see light rain at 14:50... I guess, light rain in Russia is being called heavy sleet...

 

[Grey Area]

1 hour ago, bee said:

I was thinking something along these lines myself... that they are being a bit cagey about something
to do with their line of work... 

So you are suspicious about their official story, they are being ‘cagey’ about something?

yet in the paragraph above this you say:

1 hour ago, bee said:

I have watched the men closely during the interview and I don't see any obvious signs of them lying...

So which is it?  Are they global Steroid kingpins, Assasins or tourists that love steeples and old clocks?

Doesnt help anyone making up narratives to fit your own agenda.  Even if they are based on random comments from Russia’s State TV.

Russia will not allow the extradition of these men, they will never face justice or, more telling, approach the U.K. to clear their names, all under the threat to their lives from the oppressive autocratic regime that is Westminster.

[hetrodoxly]

To tired to start again

Edited September 14, 2018 by hetrodoxly

[Habitat]

7 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Who watched the interview on RT news and come away believing the men? That sort of rubbish might convince a poorly educated population in Russia, but in the UK were critical thinking is part of our educational system it won't wash. Got to give to the men though they had Wikipedia knowledge of the cathedral, size of spire and clock. 

Let the men return to the UK. Face the courts I'm sure if their innocent they'll be found so. No they won't step foot outside of Russia. Wouldn't surprise me if the British police had recovered DNA from the scene. Which directly link the two men, but it would be wise to keep quiet and sit on that information. 

 

Really ? Under what banner is the "critical thinking" taught ?

[bmk1245]

Bit from bellingcat and insider.

 

[RoofGardener]

30 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Bit from bellingcat and insider.

 

WOW.. that is VERY interesting.. thanks for posting that bmk1245

[Setton]

55 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Bit from bellingcat and insider.

 

Great find! 

[bee]

 

bit about Eliot Higgins author / organiser / front man of Bellingcat

edit to add quote...

So you can see why a lot of people really have an interest in making Eliot Higgins out to be an authority, a reputed source, an expert. Have a look at his profile on the Atlantic Council site, an agency funded by governments across the world (25, no less), to promote their position under the guise of being a ‘think tank’. Higgins now works with them, and they call him ‘

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by bee

[bee]

10 hours ago, Grey Area said:

Doesnt help anyone making up narratives to fit your own agenda.

 

tell that to Theresa May's Government....