Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[Dumbledore the Awesome 43,954]

1 hour ago, LV-426 said:

Honestly Vlad, you're the only one displaying any fanaticism here, with your colourful depictions of "Prime Minister May and her absurd little tinpot regime [leading] Operation Barbarossa II against the Demon, with Boris marching at their head, spluttering incoherently and spittle flying from his lips and hair flying wildly", comments on "blustering in patriotic fury" and "Russkiephobic hysteria", along with talk of "outraged patriotic indignation." All while refusing to entertain any notion that Putin and his cronies had any connection at all to these events.

Who else is using such language?

Almost the entirety of Parliament sees the connection, on both sides of the House, with the possible exception of Comrade Corbyn.

Almost everyone posting here - who are often at opposite ends of the political spectrum - sees the connection.

Evidence? Yes. But why do you have such a hard time seeing the negative in Putin; former KGB man, a man reputed to have amassed personal wealth of $200 billion while his nation is in economic crisis due to oil prices and sanctions, a man behind <insert long list of criticisms on Syria, Ukraine, state-sponsored doping in athletics, bribary in winning the 2018 World Cup, ad infinitum...>?

Because you're all being utterly absurdly hysterical, that's why I can't take any of you and your absurd offended patriotism seriously. Sorry.  Not to mention that for this to be a Vile Putin Attack would only make any sense at all if he'd decided once and for all to show the world that he's turned into Ernst Stavro Blofeld. It's so easy when you have a nice bogey figure you can demonize to your heart's content isn't it. You don't have to worry about motives, or what they might hope to achieve by it, or whether there'd be any logic at all in turning the entire world against him; as with every other leader we, meaning whichever gang of buffoons has been in charge of plucky little Britain at the time, has decided to adopt as the current Global Demon, all we need to say is that they're Mad and Evil, and noone needs to apply and sense or logic to the argument at all .

Edited March 15, 2018 by Vlad the Mighty

[Farmer77 24,563]

4 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Not to mention that for this to be a Vile Putin Attack would only make any sense at all if he'd decided once and for all to show the world that he's turned into Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

Or he knew the one superpower which could keep him in check is disinterested  after the 2016 election 

 

 

[Dumbledore the Awesome 43,954]

And look how brilliant it's been for the New Iron Lady, this last week or so there's been not one mention of Brexit anywhere! Not one mention of any intransigence from the EU or any new obstacles they may have decided to put her way!  Any talk of any challenge to her leadership has been thrown to the winds! She's got the Press in its entirety cheering her on the more ravingly belligerent she gets! And it's shown up her pathetic would-be challenger, the Marxist Corbyn, as a tool and puppet and Putin and the traitor he is!

[Dumbledore the Awesome 43,954]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Or he knew the one superpower which could keep him in check is disinterested  after the 2016 election 

 

 

Yes, that's right, look at all the Commies that the traitor Trump has put into positions of power; "Defense" Secretary "Mad Dog" Mattis, UN "Ambassador" Nikki Haley, and the new Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, every single one of them peacenik hippies and traitors who'd let Putin's Vile Hordes march right in and occupy Washington!

[RAyMO 2,972]

You do not have to be pro establishment to accept that on the balance of probabilities the government are probably right and doing the right thing on this one.

Personally I have no time for the establishment, any establish (other than ones that sell beverages) but even I can see that the event in Salisbury was not an act by the UK (although I do disagree with those that think the UK are  above such acts) and that it needed a response.

As for May - off course she's now in unashamed 'milking it' mode  - its what politicians do.

[LV-426 8,761]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

although I do disagree with those that think the UK are  above such acts) and that it needed a response.

I believe every politician, in every country, good or bad that attains a certain level of power, has the capacity to make questionable moral decisions that we just can't comprehend, as we aren't privvy to the full picture.

Overseas targetted airstrikes, etc.? Sure. Using a nerve agent within our own populace for political gain though... nah, I just don't buy it. It would have had to come directly from the top, from May herself.

We're talking vicar's daughter and former convent schoolgirl. Stacked up against Vlad's CV... just nah...

[RoofGardener 11,126]

Theresa May doesn't go to the Grenfeld site.... massive criticism. She doesn't care. 

Theresa May DOES go to Salisbury.... massive criticism. She's milking it. 

She can't win !

Right, now settle down, the lot of you. There is an ongoing police investigation. It's a BIG one. All CCTV camera footage is being reviewed. Hotel bookings. Car rentals. ANPR systems. Interviews with potential witnesses. Forensic thingymabobs. You know... footprints...dogs failing to bark in the night... science and stuff. 

They WILL pin down how the Fish was delivered. Then they will start zoning in on who might have been involved. Hopefully the two victims will recover, and be able to give even more information. 

 

[Setton 4,920]

6 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

I believe every politician, in every country, good or bad that attains a certain level of power, has the capacity to make questionable moral decisions that we just can't comprehend, as we aren't privvy to the full picture.

Overseas targetted airstrikes, etc.? Sure. Using a nerve agent within our own populace for political gain though... nah, I just don't buy it. It would have had to come directly from the top, from May herself.

Not only that, it would rely on so many other people - politicians, intelligence personnel, police, civil servants - being aware and not one of them choosing to speak out. 

Call me hopelessly optimistic but I like to think at least one person in all those that would be involved would be more trustworthy than that. 

[LV-426 8,761]

3 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Because you're all being utterly absurdly hysterical, that's why I can't take any of you and your absurd offended patriotism seriously. Sorry.  Not to mention that for this to be a Vile Putin Attack would only make any sense at all if he'd decided once and for all to show the world that he's turned into Ernst Stavro Blofeld. It's so easy when you have a nice bogey figure you can demonize to your heart's content isn't it. You don't have to worry about motives, or what they might hope to achieve by it, or whether there'd be any logic at all in turning the entire world against him; as with every other leader we, meaning whichever gang of buffoons has been in charge of plucky little Britain at the time, has decided to adopt as the current Global Demon, all we need to say is that they're Mad and Evil, and noone needs to apply and sense or logic to the argument at all .

I just don't see the hysteria here, other than from yourself.

Even bee's comments, which lean towards your own side of the debate, aren't hysterical. People understandably want answers.

We're being told by almost all authorities involved thus far that the evidence points to Russia:

Russia spy: Allies condemn nerve agent attack

"The leaders of France, Germany, the US and UK say there is "no plausible alternative explanation" to Russia having been behind the nerve agent attack in the UK."

Am I 100% convinced? No, I'd still like to see as much evidence shared worldwide as possible, but if you completely ignore all the pointers so far, preferring instead to jump to Putin's defence, while wildly pointing at everyone else, you're heading into the realms of conspiracy theory...

[Phaeton80 3,699]

This whole thing is just another episode of crazy like we have been witnessing in the West the last couple of months. I can hardly take it serious, can hardly take May serious. Its comical; because this is a supposed Russian chemical agent developed during the cold war.. 'There is no other conclusion possible'.

Ho- ly ****. How about that for simplistic, convenient rhetoric.

GB, ofcourse, will not release their 'irrefutable evidence' in any shape or form. And ofcourse, this is all a pure coincidence.. adding oh so conveniently to a rich pattern of (projected) 'Russian agression' (most if not all of which have been proven complete BS, 'fake news').. Not to mention the utter Russian dimness necessary for executing this man in this nation, by way of this specific method, at this specific time. I mean, there are a lot of methods to terminate an undesired individual, a 1001 of them at much, much less risk of source identification.

What in the h*ll is going on here?! Are we deemed so incredibly retarded we are supposed to swallow this hook line and sinker? My god, this movie is getting increasingly silly with every month that passes.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Setton 4,920]

15 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

I just don't see the hysteria here, other than from yourself.

Even bee's comments, which lean towards your own side of the debate, aren't hysterical. People understandably want answers.

We're being told by almost all authorities involved thus far that the evidence points to Russia:

Russia spy: Allies condemn nerve agent attack

"The leaders of France, Germany, the US and UK say there is "no plausible alternative explanation" to Russia having been behind the nerve agent attack in the UK."

Add the secretary general of NATO to that list. Just seen an interview with him. 

'We have no reason to doubt the conclusions of the British government.' 

[Grey Area 1,486]

8 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

This whole thing is just another episode of crazy like we have been witnessing in the West the last couple of months. I can hardly take it serious, can hardly take May serious. Its comical; because this is a supposed Russian chemical agent developed during the cold war.. 'There is no other conclusion possible'.

Ho- ly ****. How about that for simplistic, convenient rhetoric.

GB, ofcourse, will not release their 'irrefutable evidence' in any shape or form. And ofcourse, this is all a pure coincidence.. adding oh so conveniently to a rich pattern of (projected) 'Russian agression' (most if not all of which have been proven complete BS, 'fake news').. Not to mention the utter Russian dimness necessary for executing this man in this nation, by way of this specific method, at this specific time. I mean, there are a lot of methods to terminate an undesired individual, a 1001 of them at much, much less risk at source identification.

What in the h*ll is going on here?! Are we deemed so incredibly retarded we are supposed to swallow this hook line and sinker? My god, this movie is getting increasingly silly with every month that passes.

I agree, and for the record I am not saying it wasn’t Russia, I just am not prepared to make a judgement on the information we have been given.

In parliament today May said there can be no other conclusion that it was the Russian state that committed this attack.

Two days ago May asked the Russian Ambassador if it was them or if they had lost control of any stockpiles.  Russia has not responded, so clearly then there are other conclusions that can be drawn.

If this was being prosecuted in a court of law it would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and given the potential outcome of this episode I think that it is important to be sure.

[ExpandMyMind 10,686]

38 minutes ago, Setton said:

Not only that, it would rely on so many other people - politicians, intelligence personnel, police, civil servants - being aware and not one of them choosing to speak out. 

Call me hopelessly optimistic but I like to think at least one person in all those that would be involved would be more trustworthy than that. 

Forget trustworthy. It goes back to the 9/11 reasoning: they're not competent enough to keep something like that a secret.

[bee 11,199]

5 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

What in the h*ll is going on here?! Are we deemed so incredibly retarded we are supposed to swallow this hook line and sinker? My god, this movie is getting increasingly silly with every month that passes.

 

I don't think the perpetrators of this madness care how silly or transparent it all is.... the juggernaut heading towards a serious conflict  with Russia
possibly leading to WW3 - is pressing on regardless --- Brexit and the Trump presidency and the rise of 'populism' in various
countries has probably speeded it all up - the media owned by and in cahoots with the New World Order is running the script.... 

Order out of chaos - a big cull - a One World Government / economy / military ....arising out of a shattered World...

What the hell indeed - we could be heading for hell and there may be little we can do to stop the nutters getting it all together --

I think Teresa May is just a puppet in all this and going along with the Big Bad Russia narrative because she can make political
capital out of it and she probably doesn't have a choice...

I just have a really bad feeling about where all this is heading...

 

 

[bee 11,199]

28 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Even bee's comments, which lean towards your own side of the debate, aren't hysterical.

you were saying......

 

[Phaeton80 3,699]

1 minute ago, Grey Area said:

I agree, and for the record I am not saying it wasn’t Russia, I just am not prepared to make a judgement on the information we have been given.

In parliament today May said there can be no other conclusion that it was the Russian state that committed this attack.

Two days ago May asked the Russian Ambassador if it was them or if they had lost control of any stockpiles.  Russia has not responded, so clearly then there are other conclusions that can be drawn.

If this was being prosecuted in a court of law it would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and given the potential outcome of this episode I think that it is important to be sure.

 

My sentiments exactly. How it is some of us are ready to accept the excessively lacking position of GB, especially given earlier gleaned results - where a whole collection of foreign heads of state have been demonised based on comparable shallow content that wouldnt stand a single day in a court of law - baffles my tiny lill' mind.

[LV-426 8,761]

Just now, bee said:

you were saying......

Don't worry bee... I reserve judgement until you start talking "spittle" and "flailing-hair"

[bee 11,199]

9 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

If this was being prosecuted in a court of law it would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and given the potential outcome of this episode I think that it is important to be sure.

 

this is a political lynching and any rule of law seems to have gone out of the window - 

[RAyMO 2,972]

2 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

"spittle" and "flailing-hair"

But to be fair LV that's a good description of the man on a normal day.

[LV-426 8,761]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

What the hell indeed - we could be heading for hell and there may be little we can do to stop the nutters getting it all together --

Oh well... on the upside, if it all goes pear-shaped, I'm slap bang in the middle of several BAE facilities, so it should be quick...

[RAyMO 2,972]

I can just see Putin in Moscow - fuming asking "what idiot thought it would be a good idea to use a chemical weapon"

[LV-426 8,761]

2 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

But to be fair LV that's a good description of the man on a normal day.

Well, I'm no fan... but to be fair, I was impressed when he went out jogging during the recent blizzards in a pair of Bermuda shorts!

[ExpandMyMind 10,686]

6 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Oh well... on the upside, if it all goes pear-shaped, I'm slap bang in the middle of several BAE facilities, so it should be quick...

I live between Faslane and the Grangemouth plant 

[bee 11,199]

7 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Oh well... on the upside, if it all goes pear-shaped, I'm slap bang in the middle of several BAE facilities, so it should be quick...

 

lucky you 

[ExpandMyMind 10,686]

7 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

I can just see Putin in Moscow - fuming asking "what idiot thought it would be a good idea to use a chemical weapon"

That's if you don't consider the rather obvious motive behind the method: it was a statement both to the west and other collaborators.

I mean it already happened for those exact reasons in 2006, so I'm not sure why some people find this event to far fetched.