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markdohle

Is Materialism dead?

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markdohle

Is Materialism dead?

Posted on January 25, 2018 by Mel Wild

Perhaps materialism—the belief that all that exists is matter and energy and the rearrangement of it—is only “merely dead” and not “really most sincerely dead,” as the Coroner of Oz would say, but its days do seem to be numbered. And while its full demise may not come in our lifetime, it may just be a matter of time. Of course, I’m having fun here, but I do have a valid point. 

 

https://melwild.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/is-materialism-dead/

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Rlyeh

Quantum quackery kills it's own credibility by clinging to magical thinking and outdated concepts.

[while a number of philosophic ideas] may be logically consistent, with present quantum mechanics,…materialism is not.”(Wigner (2012). “Philosophical Reflections and Syntheses”, p.252, Springer Science & Business Media)

Just want to point out that Eugene Wigner who later abandoned the Von Neumann–Wigner interpretation (consciousness causes collapse) died in 1995.

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papageorge1

Is Materialism dead?

To me, it's about as dead as Biblical Creationism, a few adherents will not let go but I move past them.

Quantum Mechanics and my study of paranormal phenomena has made materialism untenable for me.

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Sherapy
2 hours ago, eight bits said:

We stand at an interesting point in intellectual history. Intutions about "consciousness" butt up against the Church-Turing thesis (= consciousness is an emergent property of the orderly arrangement of material). And we don't know.

What we do know is what has happened in the past. "Materialism," by whatever name, drifts in and out of fashion. In the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, spirit mediums and their "proofs" were all the rage. Materialism was supposed to be dying, then, too. Instead of "Near Death Experiences," the wishful thinkers of that age were at least studying the real deal, "After Death Experience."

Not every spirit medium was a fraud, but not one of them could actually deliver the goods when challenged from the allegedly dying perspective of materialism. Really advanced stuff, like checking that the blindfold actually fit, somehow interfered with the ethereal channel. There was even an "innovation gap" (one of the sillier parts of the blog piece). All the laws of nature had been discovered by then, don't you know, and there was nothing left for scientists to do but resolve an additional decimal place or two in the values of the constants that appeared in the laws. Better to be an accountant than a scientist; same skill set and a bigger paycheck.

Ironically, quantum mechanics was the death of that part of the death of materialism. Turns out that there are one or two laws that hadn't been discovered yet. Turnabout is fair play. The need for a materialist-first outlook of which quantum mechanics is the surest sign is to be ignored because quantum mechanics is "above the pay grade" of the blogger, therefore Godidit.

Heard that one before. Good luck with it this time 'round.

Great post! Fun to read.

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markdohle

It is an interesting topic for sure, thanks for the responses.  I do believe the 'consciousness' in and of itself will be the death of materialism.  Our self-awareness, our inner lives etc, should be impossible if it were true. Also, I do believe that the NDE's and others human experiences such as OBE's will help bring about a deeper understanding of the mystery of who and what we are.  Religion has known all along, what one-day science will embrace.....though not in religious terms of course. 

Peace
Mark

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Stubbly_Dooright

In my opinion, I don't think I feel to say which is dead and which would rule out over the other one. Frankly, when it comes to materialism, (after I push aside the frame of mind of looking at it as owning stuff ;)  :w00t: ), I don't think one can say it would really die. It's more there, then one can prove spiritualism. And this is coming from me, who embraces spiritualism, in my own way of spiritualism. 

I feel, spiritualism does exist, but I can't say it's a priority over materialism. So, I feel, that materialism isn't dead and wont die due to it's readily excepted existence. But, I won't say spiritualism is dead, due to my own random (and others I have observed in various ways) experiences. I just feel, they just might actually compliment each other. 

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psyche101
2 hours ago, markdohle said:

It is an interesting topic for sure, thanks for the responses. 

Its just a blog opinion piece, nothing different to the claims seen here on a regular basis. 

Quote

I do believe the 'consciousness' in and of itself will be the death of materialism. 

Its not going that way at all. The attention schema theory is a strong scientific theory that illustrates the evolution of consciousness. It's a normal product of development like everything else about us. 

Quote

Our self-awareness, our inner lives etc, should be impossible if it were true.

Not at all, brain surgery, lobotomies and accurate prediction of brain trauma results would not be possible if the mind was not the brain. 

Quote

Also, I do believe that the NDE's and others human experiences such as OBE's will help bring about a deeper understanding of the mystery of who and what we are. 

Studying these fragile moments have only led us to understand that death is final. It's been a few thousand years of claims of afterlife claims but nothing to show for it. 

Quote

Religion has known all along, what one-day science will embrace.....though not in religious terms of course. 

Peace
Mark

I have no idea how religious proponents come to such a conclusion when science had erroded much of the claims religion has made already and there is no good reason to expect that trend to change. 

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

In my opinion, I don't think I feel to say which is dead and which would rule out over the other one. Frankly, when it comes to materialism, (after I push aside the frame of mind of looking at it as owning stuff ;)  :w00t: ), I don't think one can say it would really die. It's more there, then one can prove spiritualism. And this is coming from me, who embraces spiritualism, in my own way of spiritualism. 

I feel, spiritualism does exist, but I can't say it's a priority over materialism. So, I feel, that materialism isn't dead and wont die due to it's readily excepted existence. But, I won't say spiritualism is dead, due to my own random (and others I have observed in various ways) experiences. I just feel, they just might actually compliment each other. 

Well said, great to see you posting.

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MERRY DMAS

I didn't know Materialism was sick? Is it cancer?

Imaginationism still has spunk.

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psyche101
3 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

I didn't know Materialism was sick? Is it cancer?

Imaginationism still has spunk.

:rofl:

 

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joc
On 3/6/2018 at 5:03 PM, markdohle said:

It is an interesting topic for sure, thanks for the responses.  I do believe the 'consciousness' in and of itself will be the death of materialism.  Our self-awareness, our inner lives etc, should be impossible if it were true. Also, I do believe that the NDE's and others human experiences such as OBE's will help bring about a deeper understanding of the mystery of who and what we are.  Religion has known all along, what one-day science will embrace.....though not in religious terms of course. 

Peace
Mark

Religion doesn't know anything..

Materialism = physics, and physics = reality, and reality isn't  going any where. 

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Jodie.Lynne

I read, or tried to read, the linked article, but was having some difficulty.

The first 4 paragraphs are word salad, semantically null. The author of the blog isn't sure if he is being serious, or poking fun at the concept.

This sentence, I find laughable, as if innovation should work according to a time table:

"There have been almost no breakthroughs in the last 20-30 years, only incremental improvements on what is already known."

 

It reminded this reader of the nonsensical verbal diarrhea of the pseudo-scientific, quasi-spiritualism of "Spirit Science"

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
On 06/03/2018 at 8:21 PM, psyche101 said:

Its just a blog opinion piece, nothing different to the claims seen here on a regular basis. 

Its not going that way at all. The attention schema theory is a strong scientific theory that illustrates the evolution of consciousness. It's a normal product of development like everything else about us. 

Not at all, brain surgery, lobotomies and accurate prediction of brain trauma results would not be possible if the mind was not the brain. 

Studying these fragile moments have only led us to understand that death is final. It's been a few thousand years of claims of afterlife claims but nothing to show for it. 

I have no idea how religious proponents come to such a conclusion when science had erroded much of the claims religion has made already and there is no good reason to expect that trend to change. 

That sounds awfully dogmatic.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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psyche101
3 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

That sounds awfully dogmatic.

Its more question 

Do you even know the meaning of the word? 

f67334bc58f2468bad15312669d5edaa0afe4c44

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joc

Let me help everyone by using the word in a sentence;

 

Fido had no problems with thirst, seeing as how his water source was completely dogmatic.

 

dogmatic.jpg

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cormac mac airt
2 minutes ago, joc said:

Let me help everyone by using the word in a sentence;

 

Fido had no problems with thirst, seeing as how his water source was completely dogmatic.

 

dogmatic.jpg

:w00t:

cormac

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its more question 

Do you even know the meaning of the word? 

 

 
dog·mat·ic
dôɡˈmadik/
adjective: dogmatic
 
1. inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true
Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)

*Snip*

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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psyche101
5 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:
 
dog·mat·ic
dôɡˈmadik/
adjective: dogmatic
 
1. inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true

Best fit to the data and a question. Dare you attempt to answer it? 

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GlitterRose

I have more of a problem with people who are too materialistic.

In other words, their life seems to revolve around amassing wealth and stuff, but for no real reason. 

At some point, don't people have enough? 

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joc
1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

I have more of a problem with people who are too materialistic.

In other words, their life seems to revolve around amassing wealth and stuff, but for no real reason. 

At some point, don't people have enough? 

 The question of how much is enough? if one makes $300,000 a year is that enough? in the case of Bezos who made 39 billion dollars in one year Is that enough?

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NewAge1
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, joc said:

Religion doesn't know anything..

Materialism = physics, and physics = reality, and reality isn't  going any where. 

I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's. I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.

Edited by TheTheosophist

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joc

I must create my own wheel....or be destined to roll on someone else's.

As long as your system is logical and founded in reality...go for it!

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, joc said:

I must create my own wheel....or be destined to roll on someone else's.

As long as your system is logical and founded in reality...go for it!

And, if I can add to this, harms none by its actions. :)

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