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Is Materialism dead?


markdohle

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On 3/6/2018 at 8:30 PM, Sherapy said:
On 3/6/2018 at 7:02 PM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

In my opinion, I don't think I feel to say which is dead and which would rule out over the other one. Frankly, when it comes to materialism, (after I push aside the frame of mind of looking at it as owning stuff ;)  :w00t: ), I don't think one can say it would really die. It's more there, then one can prove spiritualism. And this is coming from me, who embraces spiritualism, in my own way of spiritualism. 

I feel, spiritualism does exist, but I can't say it's a priority over materialism. So, I feel, that materialism isn't dead and wont die due to it's readily excepted existence. But, I won't say spiritualism is dead, due to my own random (and others I have observed in various ways) experiences. I just feel, they just might actually compliment each other. 

Well said, great to see you posting.

Thank you. :st 

And I'll try even more. (you'll get more info later ;) ) 

16 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I have more of a problem with people who are too materialistic.

In other words, their life seems to revolve around amassing wealth and stuff, but for no real reason. 

At some point, don't people have enough? 

Makes me wonder, (and I mentioned it in my last post and hence my own confusion :wacko: ) about how the word, 'materialsim' is being used here. Kind of like how the "Princess Bride" meme best explains it, in my opinion. ;) 

So, I wonder, are we updating the term of scientific, and/or, fact or logic, and now using the term materialism now? I kinda confused. :w00t: 

 

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11 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Thank you. :st 

And I'll try even more. (you'll get more info later ;) ) 

Makes me wonder, (and I mentioned it in my last post and hence my own confusion :wacko: ) about how the word, 'materialsim' is being used here. Kind of like how the "Princess Bride" meme best explains it, in my opinion. ;) 

So, I wonder, are we updating the term of scientific, and/or, fact or logic, and now using the term materialism now? I kinda confused. :w00t: 

 

I think they're using it as in people who are only focused on the material world. 

Stuff they can see and touch and measure. 

Science by its nature can only focus on what it can examine. 

That irks people for some reason, even though science doesn't try to make statements about things it can't examine. 

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I'm ok with not really knowing if there is anything more than this world, but hoping there might be.

Some people are all caught up in insisting it's one way or the other. 

That seems futile on both fronts. 

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It is less about the right answers said found but more to the right questions being asked ... most times the best answer is that there is no known definitive answer ~

 

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:27 AM, Rlyeh said:
Quote

[while a number of philosophic ideas] may be logically consistent, with present quantum mechanics,…materialism is not.”(Wigner (2012). “Philosophical Reflections and Syntheses”, p.252, Springer Science & Business Media)

 

Just want to point out that Eugene Wigner who later abandoned the Von Neumann–Wigner interpretation (consciousness causes collapse) died in 1995.

Wigner wrote this in 2012 and yet died in 1995.  I guess that proves life after death authorship.  Who knew.

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18 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm ok with not really knowing if there is anything more than this world, but hoping there might be.

Some people are all caught up in insisting it's one way or the other. 

That seems futile on both fronts. 

I have never been okay with 'not knowing'.  There are indeed things that Science cannot 'touch and measure'.  But that does not mean they are unknowable.   Logic and reasoning are the reason science exists in the first place.   If we can examine that which we believe to be true with logic and reasoning...we may still not be able to ascertain necessarily what IS true but we can certainly come much closer to ascertaining what is NOT true.  And in discovering what is Not true, we find ourselves light years further ahead in determining what therefore IS true.

 

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On 06. 03. 2018. at 4:12 PM, markdohle said:

Is Materialism dead?

Posted on January 25, 2018 by Mel Wild

Perhaps materialism—the belief that all that exists is matter and energy and the rearrangement of it—is only “merely dead” and not “really most sincerely dead,” as the Coroner of Oz would say, but its days do seem to be numbered. And while its full demise may not come in our lifetime, it may just be a matter of time. Of course, I’m having fun here, but I do have a valid point. 

 

https://melwild.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/is-materialism-dead/

Materialism is not dead of course, in fact it is an ideology that is getting stronger every single day. Intellectuals and scientists, all decent men of thought are materialists in vast majority of cases. Every form of spirituality is frowned upon as magical thinking, and as something which belongs to a bygone era which was a time when people were not really smart and haven't been enlightened with the luminous torch of reason and majesty of science. Science and reason replaced old silly superstitions of savages and uneducated people bringing glory and blissful happiness to the human race and this made us aware that there is nothing divine to worship and admire and that everything is meaningless. That is the real picture of the universe.

Meaningless machine with a few self aware apes known as humans placed at some far out place away from the center of our galaxy pondering upon meaninglesness.

 

Edited by Illyrius
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15 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Materialism is not dead of course, in fact it is an ideology that is getting stronger every single day.

Its a silly title that's just a personal opinion. Of course it's not dying, it's everything around us. And it's not ideology, it's well supported. 

15 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Intellectuals and scientists, all decent men of thought are materialists in vast majority of cases. Every form of spirituality is frowned upon as magical thinking, and as something which belongs to a bygone era which was a time when people were not really smart and haven't been enlightened with the luminous torch of reason and majesty of science. Science and reason replaced old silly superstitions of savages and uneducated people bringing glory and blissful happiness to the human race and this made us aware that there is nothing divine to worship and admire and that everything is meaningless.

That's what the evidence illustrates so yes. There is just no evidence to support old ideologies and philosophies. The people who started this ball rolling should be commended for thinking outside the box, it got others to as well. It's not a fail that they were wrong, they were pioneers that set events in motion that would take us into space. 

15 hours ago, Illyrius said:

That is the real picture of the universe.

Yes it is

 

15 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Meaningless machine with a few self aware apes known as humans placed at some far out place away from the center of our galaxy pondering upon meaninglesness.

 

Its only meaningless if you see it that way, most find thier own meaning and don't have to find someone to please or master to to find life meaningful. 

 

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On 3/19/2018 at 0:01 AM, psyche101 said:

Its a silly title that's just a personal opinion. Of course it's not dying, it's everything around us. And it's not ideology, it's well supported. 

That's what the evidence illustrates so yes. There is just no evidence to support old ideologies and philosophies. The people who started this ball rolling should be commended for thinking outside the box, it got others to as well. It's not a fail that they were wrong, they were pioneers that set events in motion that would take us into space. 

Yes it is

 

Its only meaningless if you see it that way, most find thier own meaning and don't have to find someone to please or master to to find life meaningful. 

 

I really like listening to Richard Dawkins. Thanks for posting the videos. He makes so much sense. :tu:

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On 3/19/2018 at 6:01 PM, psyche101 said:

Its only meaningless if you see it that way, most find thier own meaning and don't have to find someone to please or master to to find life meaningful. 

We are born free. Without meaning or purpose, both which we must event. To some satisfactory level that gives out lives meaning. This meaning or purpose can be simple or complex. We can pick a meaning from the Mcdonald's menu of ideologies, or have it our way. Even though all meaning and purpose's that we might event are absurd by their very nature, we should embrace this absurdity. Knowing full well that whatever meaning we invent isn't a true meaning. It is something that solves the only real question in philosophy.

 

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3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

We are born free. Without meaning or purpose, both which we must event. To some satisfactory level that gives out lives meaning. This meaning or purpose can be simple or complex. We can pick a meaning from the Mcdonald's menu of ideologies, or have it our way. Even though all meaning and purpose's that we might event are absurd by their very nature, we should embrace this absurdity. Knowing full well that whatever meaning we invent isn't a true meaning. It is something that solves the only real question in philosophy.

Agreed, although I think I'd differ on 'true meaning', I don't think there is any such thing outside of individual, subjective meaning.  I'm not sure what an example of a true meaning would look like.  The meaning(s) we find in our lives then is true meaning.

I don't doubt that many do 'invent' their meaning and purpose, but I think most 'discover' it instead, I'm not sure how much influence or control anyone has over what they find meaningful, we seem to just kinda do.

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3 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

although I think I'd differ on 'true meaning', I don't think there is any such thing outside of individual, subjective meaning. 

This is what I meant by true meaning. It doesn't exist. 

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On ‎18‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:19 PM, Illyrius said:

Materialism is not dead of course, in fact it is an ideology that is getting stronger every single day. Intellectuals and scientists, all decent men of thought are materialists in vast majority of cases. Every form of spirituality is frowned upon as magical thinking, and as something which belongs to a bygone era which was a time when people were not really smart and haven't been enlightened with the luminous torch of reason and majesty of science. Science and reason replaced old silly superstitions of savages and uneducated people bringing glory and blissful happiness to the human race and this made us aware that there is nothing divine to worship and admire and that everything is meaningless. That is the real picture of the universe.

If facts don't support you, appeal to emotion, that always works. Don't worry you're still special.

 

On ‎18‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:19 PM, Illyrius said:

Meaningless machine with a few self aware apes known as humans placed at some far out place away from the center of our galaxy pondering upon meaninglesness.

 

William Lane Craig doesn't comprehend naturalism.

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