Former atheists who became christians

[WoIverine]

I recently heard a message about a group of people who traveled to Israel, they wanted to walk WHERE Jesus walked, but I realized it's much more important to walk HOW He walked.

I will be the first to admit, I've argued here, I've criticized others here, I was wrong. It builds walls and does no good whatsoever. If I've offended anyone here (not just in this thread), I apologize, I am sorry.

Edited March 8, 2018 by WoIverine

[Aquila King]

5 hours ago, joc said:

I just wanted to say that it is only those progressive and liberal leanings politically that I disagree with. Having read many of your posts, it is very clear that you are a deep thinker and an admirable human being.  Politics aside...

The feeling's mutual.

5 hours ago, joc said:

I was also a fundamentalist Christian for the majority of my life.  From an early age however; I had a natural predisposition to question the church, it always seemed to me that they were missing the whole point.  My grandfather was a preacher and so I saw all the back stabbing so called Christians take part in behind the scenes.  As it turns out...my predisposition to question the Church led to my complete and utter rejection of the church as any kind of authority on how to live.

My grandfather on my mother's side was a Southern Baptist preacher, and everything he did was for show. He presented himself one way as a moral paragon to everyone else on the outside, and then at home he would physically and verbally abuse my mother all growing up.

Thankfully I myself didn't have to grow up with his hypocrisy, but my mother unfortunately did. Although there were times when I saw first hand his hypocrisy clear as day for myself. Therefore I guess you could say I've been keenly aware Christian hypocrisy for as far back as I could remember. How in the world my mother is still a Christian after all that is beyond me, but at least she's an independent Christian who thinks for herself, doesn't follow the teachings of any specific preacher, and doesn't really go to church much.

[Podo]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:50 AM, Aquila King said:

I'm still somewhat baffled that it's almost always just assumed that if you aren't Christian, then you must be an atheist, and vice-versa.

Hasn't anyone ever just abandoned Christianity for some other religion or form of spirituality? Why is Atheism viewed as the antithesis?

Christians often convert to other religions. Abrahamic theists, worldwide, are pretty commonly swapping from one belief to another. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same god, after all, so it's not a hard sell. You can also see Christians converting to plenty of other beliefs. In my area, there are a lot of Christians who become pagans, or heathens, or adherents to eastern religions.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Podo

[Grandpa Greenman]

6 hours ago, WoIverine said:

I recently heard a message about a group of people who traveled to Israel, they wanted to walk WHERE Jesus walked, but I realized it's much more important to walk HOW He walked.

I will be the first to admit, I've argued here, I've criticized others here, I was wrong. It builds walls and does no good whatsoever. If I've offended anyone here (not just in this thread), I apologize, I am sorry.

Haven't we all. We all sit here and have the discussion we can't have at the family dinner, religion and politics.  It's all good.  Have a beer.  

[simplybill]

There’s a tendency to judge Christianity according to the behavior of Christians, which gives a lopsided perspective to Christianity. The purpose of attending Church is to become better at Christianity, so it’s no coincidence that people who are learning to be better at something are at a ‘less-than-perfect’ stage. Christians aren’t immediately ‘perfect’, although a type of perfection (holiness) is the ultimate goal. It’s a lifelong commitment to a lifelong process.

 

[Aquila King]

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

There’s a tendency to judge Christianity according to the behavior of Christians, which gives a lopsided perspective to Christianity.

Dude, most of Christianity's immoral words and deeds are fully justified by the bible. Ask any fundamentalist Christian sect, they'll be the first ones to justify their depraved and wicked behavior with scripture.

Feel free to disagree with their interpretation of the bible all you want, but the fact is that if you justify your immoral acts with your belief system, then we're fully justified in criticizing the belief system itself.

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

 fundamentalist Christian sect,

They can't be compared to groups such as Unitarians, Quakers or even certain Presbyterians. I hate what groups do with religions. Not the religions themselves. 

[simplybill]

15 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Dude, most of Christianity's immoral words and deeds are fully justified by the bible. Ask any fundamentalist Christian sect, they'll be the first ones to justify their depraved and wicked behavior with scripture.

This is what I mean by lopsided. You’re judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians rather than Christ. 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, simplybill said:

This is what I mean by lopsided. You’re judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians rather than Christ. 

I don't believe he can forgive me. Or even in his divinity. But I do believe he had some good teachings laid down in Matthew which I follow.

[Aquila King]

3 minutes ago, simplybill said:

This is what I mean by lopsided. You’re judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians rather than Christ. 

I just explained this to you. Do I need to explain it again?

When the negative actions of Christians are done due to negative teachings from their belief system (Christianity), then it is perfectly fair to criticize the belief system.

Am I saying ALL Christians are bad? No. Am I saying that Christianity's teachings are bad? Well, it just depends on which teachings we're talking about, since 'Christianity' is such a broad range of belief systems that it's damn near impossible to pin down to just one thing. However when you get into individual beliefs and belief systems or denominations, I can absolutely criticize it for being bad if their teachings inform their followers to do bad things.

Do you understand?

[+and-then]

On 3/7/2018 at 9:46 AM, Will Due said:

 

Christianity is Paul's religion, and not the religion Jesus taught.

 

 

It was a bit difficult for Jesus to teach those Christians that came after he physically left this world.  He came - as he told the woman at the well - to HIS people first.  If you believe that Saul/Paul was a heretic and did not reveal a mystery from Christ then you are correct.  Christianity, in that case, has nothing to do with Christ.  Most Christians don't believe that way.

[Will Due]

19 minutes ago, and then said:

It was a bit difficult for Jesus to teach those Christians that came after he physically left this world.  He came - as he told the woman at the well - to HIS people first.  If you believe that Saul/Paul was a heretic and did not reveal a mystery from Christ then you are correct.  Christianity, in that case, has nothing to do with Christ.  Most Christians don't believe that way.

 

Yes, Christians believe what Paul taught.

But if there's a difference between what Paul and Jesus taught, what is that difference?

 

 

[Davros of Skaro]

On 3/7/2018 at 2:10 AM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

We often hear like it's the other way around. Great thinkers of the 20th century eschewing faith and embracing atheism... Yet as this article demonstrates it's not as one-sided as some people are making it to be. Any thoughts?

How about you? What convinces you to believe? Is it the last sentence of your linked article?

 

"Through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and Scripture (Heb. 4:12), even the most hardened atheists can be converted to Jesus Christ."

 

Hebrews 4:12 

¹² Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

[+and-then]

14 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes, Christians believe what Paul taught.

But if there's a difference between what Paul and Jesus taught, what is that difference?

 

 

Christ taught His disciples works, Paul taught Grace... your point?

[Will Due]

21 minutes ago, and then said:

Christ taught His disciples works, Paul taught Grace... your point?

 

The New Testament is primarily a record of Paul's interpretation of the religion Jesus taught.

Jesus, unlike ALL of the prophets, did not record or leave anything in writing. Why do you think he did that?

If Jesus is God, wouldn't you think since he was here personally, he would write his teachings down himself instead of leaving it up to one of his followers to do and undoubtedly misinterpret his teachings as he taught them exactly?

Paul never heard Jesus teach. He came along after Jesus was crucified.

The NT is incomplete on the one hand regarding the exact teachings of Jesus, and what is recorded by Paul (and others) is a misinterpretation on the other.

Christianity, and the religion of Jesus, are two different things. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Will Due

[+and-then]

19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Christianity, and the religion of Jesus, are two different things.

If this is your take and your belief then I respect it, we just disagree.  Paul was the worst of the anti-Jesus crowd.  He suddenly leaves EVERYTHING behind and suffers the rest of his life, finally accepting a death sentence rather than deny Christ's Deity.  That isn't consistent with him being the equivalent of some modern "prosperity" preacher who's goal is wealth or power.  He says himself that he is explaining a "mystery".  Meaning he has been told by the Lord, what is expected of his followers, Jew and Gentile alike.  

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, and then said:

If this is your take and your belief then I respect it, we just disagree.  Paul was the worst of the anti-Jesus crowd.  He suddenly leaves EVERYTHING behind and suffers the rest of his life, finally accepting a death sentence rather than deny Christ's Deity.  That isn't consistent with him being the equivalent of some modern "prosperity" preacher who's goal is wealth or power.  He says himself that he is explaining a "mystery".  Meaning he has been told by the Lord, what is expected of his followers, Jew and Gentile alike.  

 

To me, here's the difference:

Paul taught salvation by believing Jesus died, thereby atoning for the sins of mankind, and that He was resurrected.

Jesus taught salvation through faith in the living relationship we have with God as a Father, which each and every one of us experiences as a son or daughter, and that We will be resurrected. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Will Due

[+joc]

2 hours ago, simplybill said:

This is what I mean by lopsided. You’re judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians rather than Christ. 

I am.  Only speaking for myself but I am!  I am judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians and their church.  Most of what the Christian Church today beliefs is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.  Especially the part about what one has to do to be forgiven.

It goes like this:  Believe Jesus was born of a virgin.  Believe he died for your sins.  Believe he was resurrected.  Ask God to forgive you in the name of Jesus.  Your saved.   Jesus said something completely different.  When asked point blank what one had to do to be forgiven, Jesus said, 'If you forgive those who have sinned against you, then your father in heaven will forgive you of your sins, but if you do not forgive them who have sinned against you, neither will your father in heaven forgive you of your sins.'

Jesus never said he was the son of God....Matthew did.  Jesus referred to himself consistently as The Son of Man.  He recognized God as his heavenly father...but not just his...OUR father who art in heaven.  

 

[WoIverine]

Love one another, that was His command. It demolishes all walls, destroys all barriers, regardless of belief, or affiliation. It is so powerful when applied. I think that's where a lot of Christians get hung up, I did, for a long time. Knowledge without application resulting in zero progress.

Edited March 9, 2018 by WoIverine

[simplybill]

1 hour ago, joc said:

I am.  Only speaking for myself but I am!  I am judging Christianity by the behavior of Christians and their church.  Most of what the Christian Church today beliefs is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.  Especially the part about what one has to do to be forgiven.

You’re doing the same thing - you’re judging Christ by rating the behavior of some Christians. If you’re going to do that, then you need to observe the behavior of every Christian that’s ever lived and weigh them all in the balance. Why not instead observe Jesus himself?

Study all of Jesus, not just a conversation hear and there. He didn’t repeat the same speech to everyone he met. He spoke personally to everyone. The rich young ruler was told to sell everything he owned and give the money to the poor. Some of the religious leaders were rebuked for making up their own religious rules. His conversations were personal and to the point. Individual conversations aren’t the totality of his teachings.

[Truthseeker007]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:52 AM, and then said:

It is not a requirement for a follower of Christ to belong to any Church.  One need only believe that He is God, born as a human and that He allowed Himself to be sacrificed for the remission of our sins.  Finally, he was buried and rose to life again on the third day, as is written in scripture.  THAT is the sum total of what is needed for salvation and eternal life.  How blessed and rewarded we are in the next life, depends on our works in His service.  

In other words a cult of mind control.

[Only_]

2 hours ago, WoIverine said:

Love one another, that was His command. It demolishes all walls, destroys all barriers, regardless of belief, or affiliation. It is so powerful when applied. I think that's where a lot of Christians get hung up, I did, for a long time. Knowledge without application resulting in zero progress.

What a great response.

[Only_]

3 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

How about you? What convinces you to believe? Is it the last sentence of your linked article?

 

"Through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and Scripture (Heb. 4:12), even the most hardened atheists can be converted to Jesus Christ."

 

Hebrews 4:12 

¹² Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

It's a nice quote from the OT. I've heard of atheists who 'converted' after that flash of lightning, a.k.a mystical experience. It really was sharper than any two-edged sword. That's usually how it happens, when so suddenly. Paul reports the same thing in the Epistle to the Galatians.

[LINK] Barbara Ehrenreich: 'Was that you, God?'

Edited March 9, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[+and-then]

14 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

In other words a cult of mind control.

Your words reflect your opinions.  Believe as you wish.

[Davros of Skaro]

4 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

It's a nice quote from the OT. I've heard of atheists who 'converted' after that flash of lightning, a.k.a mystical experience. It really was sharper than any two-edged sword. That's usually how it happens, when so suddenly. Paul reports the same thing in the Epistle to the Galatians.

[LINK] Barbara Ehrenreich: 'Was that you, God?'

Ahem!

Perhaps you missed it?

"How about you? What convinces you to believe?"