Former atheists who became christians

[Truthseeker007]

6 minutes ago, and then said:

Your words reflect your opinions.  Believe as you wish.

By definition it is cult like and mind control. To further add though in your favor that even going to a state school or college can be considered mind control.

[Only_]

27 minutes ago, davros of skaro said:

Ahem!

Perhaps you missed it?

"How about you? What convinces you to believe?"

In my case, it's not so much about convincing as choosing to follow a path. I rediscovered Jesus and his humanistic values and found out his teachings were a great standard to which I could measure my everyday life. A role model in the work that I do: taking care of the old and sick. He inspires me to keep going and his message of love and unselfishness reasonates powerfully in our modern, techno-based society.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

In my case, it's not so much about convincing as choosing to follow a path.

Can you choose to believe in Leprechaun gold at the end of rainbows since you do not need convincing? 

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I rediscovered Jesus and his humanistic values and found out his teachings were a great standard to which I could measure my everyday life.

Humanistic sounds like Humanism which is a bad word to Theists.

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

A role model in the work that I do: taking care of the old and sick. He inspires me to keep going and his message of love and unselfishness reasonates powerfully in our modern, techno-based society.

The simple things in life... Got it.

BTW

Thanks for the story by Barbara. I just e-mailed her the science of what happened to her, and that it happened to me as well.

[+joc]

6 hours ago, simplybill said:

You’re doing the same thing - you’re judging Christ by rating the behavior of some Christians. If you’re going to do that, then you need to observe the behavior of every Christian that’s ever lived and weigh them all in the balance. Why not instead observe Jesus himself?

Study all of Jesus, not just a conversation hear and there. He didn’t repeat the same speech to everyone he met. He spoke personally to everyone. The rich young ruler was told to sell everything he owned and give the money to the poor. Some of the religious leaders were rebuked for making up their own religious rules. His conversations were personal and to the point. Individual conversations aren’t the totality of his teachings.

Your missing a couple of things here.  First, I know all about Jesus...I have studied his character and the scriptures all my life.  I am not judging Christ.   Secondly, it is the church who defines Christianity.  Not me...and not Christ.  I have been told by enough Christians that I am NOT a Christian...because...I do not belief in the virgin birth or the resurrection.  The Church is responsible for its own hypocrisy.  I am not judging each individual Christian....I don't know each individual Christian, however; being raised in the Church I know the Church like the back of my hand.

[Only_]

20 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

Humanistic sounds like Humanism which is a bad word to Theists.

[LINK] Jesus Is the Ultimate Humanist

Quote

Thanks for the story by Barbara. I just e-mailed her the science of what happened to her, and that it happened to me as well.

I'm afraid your 'dopamine hypothesis' falls short of explaining a mystical experience.

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

[LINK] Jesus Is the Ultimate Humanist

I'm afraid your 'dopamine hypothesis' falls short of explaining a mystical experience.

 

I'd beg to differ 

Hallucinogenic drugs such as Psilocybin and LSD, which indirectly stimulate dopamine activity in the brain’s frontal lobes, can produce religious experience even in the avowedly non-religious. These hallucinogens produce vivid imagery, sometimes along with near psychotic breaks or intense spiritual experience, all tied to stimulation of dopamine receptors on neurons in the limbic system , the seat of emotion located in the midbrain, and in the prefrontal cortex, the upper brain that is the centre of complex thought.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/aeon.co/amp/essays/the-dopamine-switch-between-atheist-believer-and-fanatic

[+joc]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd beg to differ 

Hallucinogenic drugs such as Psilocybin and LSD, which indirectly stimulate dopamine activity in the brain’s frontal lobes, can produce religious experience even in the avowedly non-religious. These hallucinogens produce vivid imagery, sometimes along with near psychotic breaks or intense spiritual experience, all tied to stimulation of dopamine receptors on neurons in the limbic system , the seat of emotion located in the midbrain, and in the prefrontal cortex, the upper brain that is the centre of complex thought.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/aeon.co/amp/essays/the-dopamine-switch-between-atheist-believer-and-fanatic

You are not 'more correct' than you know...you know exactly how correct you are!  And I also know how correct you are.  Consider the plight of the schizophrenic for example.   While there are many causes for this condition...one of the key factors is dopamine...we know this to be true because medication containing dopamine inhibitors help the schizophrenic.  There is a huge connection between dopamine levels and hallucinations both audible and imagery.   The similarities between hallucinations induced by drugs, hallucinations brought on by schizophrenia and hallucinations as a result of NDE cannot be discounted...there is a common thread...and that common thread is dopamine levels in the brain.

The Dopamine Theory of Schizophrenia
Pharmacological treatments support the idea that an overactive dopamine system may result in schizophrenia: Medications that block dopamine receptors, specifically D2 receptors, reduce schizophrenia symptoms.

The brain regions known as the thalamus and the striatum are affected by dopaminergic activity. Manzano et al. explain that schizophrenia results in altered levels of D2 binding potential in those two regions of the brain. For example, the authors note that schizophrenia patients who do not take antipsychotic medications have a lower thalamic D2 binding potential. In addition, untreated schizophrenia patients have a higher number of D2 receptors in the striatum.
 

[Only_]

9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd beg to differ 

Hallucinogenic drugs such as Psilocybin and LSD, which indirectly stimulate dopamine activity in the brain’s frontal lobes, can produce religious experience even in the avowedly non-religious. These hallucinogens produce vivid imagery, sometimes along with near psychotic breaks or intense spiritual experience, all tied to stimulation of dopamine receptors on neurons in the limbic system , the seat of emotion located in the midbrain, and in the prefrontal cortex, the upper brain that is the centre of complex thought.

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/aeon.co/amp/essays/the-dopamine-switch-between-atheist-believer-and-fanatic

It's time for you to get another, well-researched point of view:

JOHN HORGAN is a science journalist and Director of the Center for Science Writings at Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. A former senior writer at Scientific American (1986-1997), he has also written for The New York Times, National Geographic, Time, Newsweek, The Washington Post, Slate and other publications around the world. He writes the "Cross-check" blog for Scientific American and contributes to "Science Faction" on Bloggingheads.tv (see links at left).

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

It's time for you to get another, well-researched point of view:

JOHN HORGAN is a science journalist and Director of the Center for Science Writings at Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. A former senior writer at Scientific American (1986-1997), he has also written for The New York Times, National Geographic, Time, Newsweek, The Washington Post, Slate and other publications around the world. He writes the "Cross-check" blog for Scientific American and contributes to "Science Faction" on Bloggingheads.tv (see links at left).

I see, nothing at a all in your post that refutes what I and Joc have posted. 

LOL another dust jacket another book you haven't read. Appeals to authority don't work you should know that by now 

[Only_]

16 hours ago, joc said:

There is a huge connection between dopamine levels and hallucinations both audible and imagery.   The similarities between hallucinations induced by drugs, hallucinations brought on by schizophrenia and hallucinations as a result of NDE cannot be discounted...there is a common thread...and that common thread is dopamine levels in the brain.

 

I have experimented with psychedelics in my youth and believe me, once the effects were done and over, I soon realized the hallucinations weren't real. Not much to do with a true mystical experience as described by those who experienced one. That 'crash of thunder', sudden vision, bursting the doors of the mind open. That brillant, blazing energy brighter than a thousand suns. I'm no reductionist, while some studies have clearly showed the effects of these experiences on the brain, I do think it acts as a receiver. The physical brain is the host of consciousness.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[+joc]

10 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I have experimented with psychedelics in my youth and believe me, once the effects were done and over, I soon realized the hallucinations weren't real. Not much to do with a true mystical experience as described by those who experienced one. That 'crash of thunder', sudden vision, bursting the doors of the mind open. That brillant, blazing energy brighter than a thousand suns. I'm no reductionist, while some studies have clearly showed the effects of these experiences on' the brain, I do think it acts as a receiver. The physical brain is the host of consciousness.

The physical brain IS the consciousness!  And what ever you experienced on acid doesn't...cannot compare to the brain response to being 're-electrified'.

[Only_]

3 minutes ago, joc said:

The physical brain IS the consciousness!

That's the reductionist, materialist viewpoint which I do not agree with.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Only_]

*Snip*

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Jodie.Lynne]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:50 AM, Aquila King said:

I'm still somewhat baffled that it's almost always just assumed that if you aren't Christian, then you must be an atheist, and vice-versa.

Hasn't anyone ever just abandoned Christianity for some other religion or form of spirituality? Why is Atheism viewed as the antithesis?

I recall a member of these forums that went from being a 'devout' Jesus loving, god fearing Christian, to devout Jew, to devout Muslim to confirmed atheist in a matter of a year.  And each incarnation of his "faith" was as dogmatic and militantly aggressive as the last.

[Jodie.Lynne]

5 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

That's the reductionist, materialist viewpoint which I do not agree with.

So do you have a non materialistic definition of consciousness?

[Only_]

Just now, JMPD1 said:

So do you have a non materialistic definition of consciousness?

I think David Chalmers gives us some very interesting clues on the nature of consciousness:

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

"certain areas of the brain and consciousness...."

well, that seems to indicate that there is a physical aspect to consciousness. I'm not sure who David Chalmers is, or his field of expertise, but this sounds like his personal explanation for the existence of consciousness. 

 

Show me a consciousness without a brain. No, no, don't TELL me about one that supposedly existed, show it. Prove that consciousness can exist without a physical vessel. Then perhaps, your argument might have some validity.

[Davros of Skaro]

On 3/9/2018 at 11:44 PM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

[LINK] Jesus Is the Ultimate Humanist

 

Some Humanist. He did not teach germ theory, but instead used faith based demon exorcism for the cure for illnesses. 

On 3/9/2018 at 11:44 PM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I'm afraid your 'dopamine hypothesis' falls short of explaining a mystical experience.

No. It explains it to a tee along with thought addiction (unshakable faith), speaking in tongues, and other Religious experiences. 

I experienced the Holy Dopamine Ghost firsthand. The aura like sheen around things, peace, the bad in the world serve it's purpose among other things (not the tongue thing). The difference is I'm not a Dopamine addict which made me recognize, and research the reality of what it was.

Do you have other experiencers that I can send the hard facts to.

I'm spreading the good news of the HDG. Thoughts can be as powerful as drugs, and certain stresses can result in a Dopamergic release.

BTW

Jesus is most likely a myth.

[Only_]

44 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

"certain areas of the brain and consciousness...."

well, that seems to indicate that there is a physical aspect to consciousness. I'm not sure who David Chalmers is, or his field of expertise, but this sounds like his personal explanation for the existence of consciousness.

David John Chalmers (/ˈtʃælmərz/;^[2] born 20 April 1966) is an Australian philosopher and cognitive scientist specializing in the areas of philosophy of mind and philosophy of language. He is Professor of Philosophy and Director of the Centre for Consciousness at the Australian National University. He is also a University Professor, Professor of Philosophy and Neural Science, and a Director of the Center for Mind, Brain and Consciousness (along with Ned Block) at New York University.^[3][4] In 2013, he was elected a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers

Quote

Show me a consciousness without a brain. No, no, don't TELL me about one that supposedly existed, show it. Prove that consciousness can exist without a physical vessel. Then perhaps, your argument might have some validity.

Why? It should be you who demonstrates that consciousness is local and a phenomenon generated by physical means. At this point, it's only an assumption. It has never been proved.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Jodie.Lynne]

8 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

 

Why? It should be you who demonstrates that consciousness is local and a phenomenon generated by physical means. At this point, it's only an assumption. It has never been proved.

 

Incorrect. Since you are making the claim that consciousness can exist sans a physical structure, the burden of proof lies with you.

 

And, since, as far as we can determine, only living humans possess consciousness, it is not an assumption, but an observable fact that consciousness resides within the structure of the human brain.

If, in fact, consciousness were some intangible and non corporeal effect, existing outside of physicality, then wouldn't it stand to reason that any consciousness could assume control of a body that was without consciousness? As in, a foreign consciousness entering and controlling the body of a comatose, or brain dead individual? If consciousness is NOT localized, then what need doo we have of physical forms?

 

[Only_]

3 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

Incorrect. Since you are making the claim that consciousness can exist sans a physical structure, the burden of proof lies with you.

 

No one can claim to have understood and explained consciousness completely. Do you? All I know is, new discoveries may force materialist science to rescind their assumptions in favour of something more like the TV analogy, in which consciousness is recognised as fundamentally “non-local” in nature – perhaps even as one of the basic driving forces of the universe.

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I think David Chalmers gives us some very interesting clues on the nature of consciousness:

 

Well that was eighteen or so minutes wasted thanks to your association fallacy. This guy needs to study more neurology, and less philosophy.

Edited March 11, 2018 by davros of skaro

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, JMPD1 said:

I recall a member of these forums that went from being a 'devout' Jesus loving, god fearing Christian, to devout Jew, to devout Muslim to confirmed atheist in a matter of a year.  And each incarnation of his "faith" was as dogmatic and militantly aggressive as the last.

I think I know who you are talking about! 

[DingoLingo]

On 08/03/2018 at 1:50 AM, Aquila King said:

I'm still somewhat baffled that it's almost always just assumed that if you aren't Christian, then you must be an atheist, and vice-versa.

Hasn't anyone ever just abandoned Christianity for some other religion or form of spirituality? Why is Atheism viewed as the antithesis?

me.. was christian.. now pagan.. 

[Only_]

2 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

Well that was eighteen or so minutes wasted thanks to your association fallacy. This guy needs to study more neurology, and less philosophy.

It shows that you are not interested in considering other possiblities.

I think the atheist, materialistic frame of reference has become some sort of 'religion' to you.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit