Jesus

[markdohle]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:29 AM, PsiSeeker said:

Oh really?  Why's that?  I actually think that avoiding the darker aspects of your own psyche is more detrimental than facing them :). 

True, it is useless to deny that we have dark places within us.  If we don't deal, or learn from then, then they will deal with us and boy will we learn lessons we could have avoided.

 

[markdohle]

double post

Edited March 9, 2018 by markdohle

[markdohle]

7 minutes ago, markdohle said:

When he is saying dark thoughts Mr. Walker, don't you have them?  It is what you do with them that is important.  They have to be dealt with but to admit that they are there will lessen the effect irrational forces have on us.    Every day, people do horrible acts against others, more often than not this flows from not knowing oneself, or even being ignorant of the rage or whatever that is growing.   Prayer is one way of dealing with it, it gives one a place to observe and to not be afraid or repress.  However, it is true there are times when someone needs help.  Sad to say, they more often than not, don't know they need it.....everyone else is to blame.

I do believe that the popularity of slash movies is based on giving people a place that they can observe something about themselves in the villain.  Art does get us in touch with both the angelic and demonic aspect that we all carry. I do think the 'punisher' archetype that has made for the creation of more than one movie, is popular because of rage against injustice......though what is proposed would not work in real life.  

The concept of 'sin' is healthy, for it lets the soul struggling  know that they can choose.  Self-knowledge is not an easy path to go down.  However, for some, not to go down that path could actually be worse.  

As a Christian, knowing that I am loved by Christ Jesus, allows me and others to not be afraid of the 'dark' for we are never alone.  All religlions give ways of dealing with our inner divisions and bring healing.  Love is the healer, love of self (even in the midst of some sort of inner war) and love of others.  

Peace
mark

3

2

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by markdohle

[eight bits]

mark

We will make a Jungian of you yet.

Up the Shadow!

PsiSeeker

You might check out shadow work jung, and see whether that's right for you.

[+Hammerclaw]

14 hours ago, internetperson said:

I can only think of religion that utilizes blind faith. 

Faith in daily life is great. It's what got me through Matthew and Irma. I planned out what to do and everything was fine. I couldn't predict the path of the hurricane but I had enough faith in how to handle the situation so I wasn't stressed. That faith is based on past experience, not blindness. 

That denotes the difference in secular and religious faith and we are in a thread about Jesus, after all, contrasting the little engine that could with faith in a happy hereafter. Solely as philosophy to live by, the New Testament is a mixed bag, yours to pick and choose from as you will.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:09 AM, LightAngel said:

Jesus represents what you don't understand yet!

That pretty much explains everything.

Essentially, without offering to the people something as the sense of 'greater thing', something spiritual which would help people to grow spiritually into more relaxed and calm persons, into good and caring persons, without that message of Jesus would not survive.

Long time has passed since then and the world has changed a lot but essential message stayed the same and it can't be altered by man because it is clear and pure, divine in nature. Again, there is a lot more to learn about Jesus before rejecting and really twisting that which you do not know just yet. Jesus's alternatives were bad, there were many sects, pagans, Romans etc but his words, which resonate to this day are proof, if for nothing else at least proof valid for defense of his message which was superior at his time. How could it be evil, murderous or anything inhumane or against humankind? It would not exist on the scale it does today, having both Christianity and Islam, major Abramic religions, respect and honor Jesus even tho religions are different in beliefs and practices.

I felt this was important to mention as topic is in spirituality forum after all and i respect and love Jesus, maybe not as much as i do Mohammad but  

[edit] forgot to say that you are right about that woman preacher @PsiSeeker , religion should be private thing. To bombard everyone by it is wrong and kinda puts religion in bad light.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Sir Smoke aLot

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:33 AM, Kismit said:

It is rude for anyone to decide you are broken in some way and need fixed.

It is rediculously rude for anyone to force thier idea of medication or religion down your throat.

One of my favorite sayings is that, I have no problem with the teachings of Jesus, but I have many problems with some of his folllowers.

A-men to that. The worst hazard a person of Faith faces is not Atheists, but other religious people. Sometime the odor of sanctity is a foul stench. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[+Not A Rockstar]

3 hours ago, eight bits said:

You might check out shadow work jung, and see whether that's right for you.

Thanks for this. I never had much use for Jung until I read some of this shadow stuff. He is singing my song here :). 

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, markdohle said:

When he is saying dark thoughts Mr. Walker, don't you have them?  It is what you do with them that is important.  They have to be dealt with but to admit that they are there will lessen the effect irrational forces have on us.    Every day, people do horrible acts against others, more often than not this flows from not knowing oneself, or even being ignorant of the rage or whatever that is growing.   Prayer is one way of dealing with it, it gives one a place to observe and to not be afraid or repress.  However, it is true there are times when someone needs help.  Sad to say, they more often than not, don't know they need it.....everyone else is to blame.

I do believe that the popularity of slash movies is based on giving people a place that they can observe something about themselves in the villain.  Art does get us in touch with both the angelic and demonic aspect that we all carry. I do think the 'punisher' archetype that has made for the creation of more than one movie, is popular because of rage against injustice......though what is proposed would not work in real life.  

The concept of 'sin' is healthy, for it lets the soul struggling  know that they can choose.  Self-knowledge is not an easy path to go down.  However, for some, not to go down that path could actually be worse.  

As a Christian, knowing that I am loved by Christ Jesus, allows me and others to not be afraid of the 'dark' for we are never alone.  All religlions give ways of dealing with our inner divisions and bring healing.  Love is the healer, love of self (even in the midst of some sort of inner war) and love of others.  

Peace
mark

No I don't have dark thoughts or any other sort of negative thoughts ie no depression, anxiety, fear anger or hatred   I learned the dangers of such thoughts as a very young person and spent many years eliminating them.  Aged about 12-13 i was opened to the cosmic consciousness and came to understand the nature of myself and the universe, which was the final step in understanding the nature of mental constructs like fear, hate, anger, love and compassion, and how to shape them.

  There is nothing to fear. Fear is not a real natural entity. It is simply something we build or construct in our mind.  Indeed all human thoughts are constructs of our mind, and as we are responsible for those constructs, we can control,and shape them. When we hate or fear, we are choosing to do so, and can make a different choice    I know them from my childhood and i know how the y hurt and influence many humans. But i no longer experience them. I have also been fortunate never to have experienced chemically based depressions  which require chemical treatment . Never in my adult life have i ever had thoughts of hurting myself or hurting another person without just cause (except as a sort of role playing device)  I chose what thoughts i construct, and i chose them carefully.  

I agree entirely with you about the consequences of not understanding self, and hence not even knowing where to begin, to control self.

A lot of books and movies appeal to  a human's sense of personal powerlessness, and contain a figure who  embodies an idealistic/unrealistic  form of personal power. The irony, of course, is that we have total  power in our lives  No one else can dis empower us unless we let them do so  Once you no longer fear death not even the threat of death can enslave a person  A t a more common level, if you do not fear the opinions of others, then no one can force you to conform to their expectations 

Just spent the last two hours watching,  "The shack"  for the first time. It wouldn't appeal to all but had me in tears, and embodied my own point of view about e nature of god and gods relationship with humans. The main characters experience  is almost exactly the same personal relationship I have with god,  and god has many times given me the same messages he gave to Mackenzie in the film.  

Edited March 10, 2018 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

19 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

There is no difference, except  that adults are able to make informed choices, and thus must be given more freedom to choose their own lives, than children  For both it is important that they be educated and informed on all relevant options and facts.  I don't consider 14 year plus year olds who have left home, tried to survive alone,  and gone through many experiences, including  becoming parents, to be children.

What has like got to do with anything?  Compassion causes you to care for all, and to do all you can for as many as you can, including those you might actually dislike.

Caring is not liking, it is giving a damn. 

I think we are using the word differently.  Compassion causes you to care ie to give a damn about a person, not to like them. 

Psychologically one must know how to love oneself, before one can love anyone else.  Love is a learned state of mind, learned from being loved, and from having models of loving people in your early life.

    Unless you can create a state/sense of love for yourself, it is neurologically impossible to construct this love for someone else. This is a known part of the cognitive process of being human.

if you  don't know how to love yourself you cannot know how to love anyone else.

Of course you might  know how to love yourself yet CHOOSE not to love yourself, because you were taught that you were not worthy of love.

Then you could   love others, but only if you can construct the cognitive pattern which creates a sense of love  in your mind. Again,, a human learns to do this by experiencing love as a cognitive pattern in response to being loved,  and then learning how to create/generate this pattern   in their mind.    It is like how we learn to walk or talk.  We associate a certain mental impulse or pattern of impulses, with certain actions, until we can construct those actions in a deliberate conscious manner .  After her stroke my wife had to do this to relearn how to use her arm/hand,  and leg.     

 

Semantic pointers  show how binding into mental representations can take place through the activities of large populations of spiking neurons. Hence the feeling of being in love at any particular moment can be identified with patterns of neural firing that result from binding by convolution of other patterns of neural firing carrying out representations of self, other, and the integration of appraisal and physiology. Neural firing results from neuron-neuron interactions that depend on molecular mechanisms using neurotransmitters such as dopamine and serotonin, as well as on  hormones  such as oxytocin, vasopressin, testosterone, and estrogen.   Therefore, falling in love is not just chemistry, feeling, or recognizing a soul-mate, but the emergent result of the interaction of social, mental, neural, and molecular mechanisms.

Like other mental states, love is both an occurrence and a disposition. The occurrence of love as an active feeling is the complex pattern of neural firing just described. But love is also a disposition to have this feeling at various times, such as when you are asleep or concerned with other matters.  You do not have to be thinking about someone to be in love with that person. 

A mental disposition is a property of  mechanisms where the parts can operate in different ways depending on environmental inputs. At the neural level, the disposition to generate particular kinds of firing patterns results from synaptic connections formed by previous experience through various kinds of learning.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hot-thought/201508/what-is-love

The last bolded bit puts in academic terms what i just described  ie  we learn to create certain  neural patterns which generate a sense of love   because we have already experienced them in response to stimuli .

MW, compassion has nothing to do with loving the self, it is about recognizing suffering, this is imperative and then seeking to alleviate it. 

To grasp the depths of compassionate it would serve one to understand their own suffering, to have transcended pain in their own life, this is what gives insight and the wisdom nessecary to constructively alleviate another’s suffering. 

If one can’t recognize or connect to their own suffering. One can’t see it in others. 

It is way beyond caring, it is about connecting to another as if it is you, you wouldn’t see the suffering as separate you would see it as if it was you. 

Compassion isn’t a feel good, do good deeds, pat oneself on the back and  call it a day, it is an intense journey that requires all of you and it is not for the faint of heart, it requires strength and a strong psyche. 

Many equate compassion to motherhood, when a child is sick a mother would do anything to alleviate the suffering even take on the sickness. 

While I have raised 3 wonderful sons, I personally don’t count these as acts of compassion they are my sons, I would give them anything. 

I do count the 4 experiences ( 2 as a live in caregiver) the other two situations that were personal as great gifts and opportunities for me to actually alleviate suffering,  None were easy, in fact, they were intense on various levels and my success was in large part due to my own personal pain and suffering and deeply profoundly understanding what they were going through and I knew how to help because I could relate personally. 

Not to say you aren’t a caring person, or haven’t done good deeds, clearly you have.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No I don't have dark thoughts or any other sort of negative thoughts ie no depression, anxiety, fear anger or hatred   I learned the dangers of such thoughts as a very young person and spent many years eliminating them.  Aged about 12-13 i was opened to the cosmic consciousness and came to understand the nature of myself and the universe, which was the final step in understanding the nature of mental constructs like fear, hate, anger, love and compassion, and how to shape them.

  There is nothing to fear. Fear is not a real natural entity. It is simply something we build or construct in our mind.  Indeed all human thoughts are constructs of our mind, and as we are responsible for those constructs, we can control,and shape them. When we hate or fear, we are choosing to do so, and can make a different choice    I know them from my childhood and i know how the y hurt and influence many humans. But i no longer experience them. I have also been fortunate never to have experienced chemically based depressions  which require chemical treatment . Never in my adult life have i ever had thoughts of hurting myself or hurting another person without just cause (except as a sort of role playing device)  I chose what thoughts i construct, and i chose them carefully.  

I agree entirely with you about the consequences of not understanding self, and hence not even knowing where to begin, to control self.

A lot of books and movies appeal to  a human's sense of personal powerlessness, and contain a figure who  embodies an idealistic/unrealistic  form of personal power. The irony, of course, is that we have total  power in our lives  No one else can dis empower us unless we let them do so  Once you no longer fear death not even the threat of death can enslave a person  A t a more common level, if you do not fear the opinions of others, then no one can force you to conform to their expectations 

Just spent the last two hours watching,  "The shack"  for the first time. It wouldn't appeal to all but had me in tears, and embodied my own point of view about e nature of god and gods relationship with humans. The main characters experience  is almost exactly the same personal relationship I have with god,  and god has many times given me the same messages he gave to Mackenzie in the film.  

In understanding the self or being self aware it includes the practice of giving oneself kindness and understandiing, the goal is not to feel better, not to make pain go away, not to eliminate your emotions or deny fear, it means to give yourself comfort just because we have fear, just because we have pain, just because we have bad days. In otherwords, accepting of what is and coping with it. One is not seeking to get rid of feelings or live in denial, what one is striving for is to provide themself with the sense of holding on to inner comfort, to inner kindness, to inner patience no matter what’s is going on around them.

For example: I am a memory care specialist for lady who has moderate dementia, I can’t change the disease or take away her fears or concerns, but what I can do is model/ offer comfort, kindness, and patience share these tools so when I am not there to be her patience, or extend kindness, or to give comfort she can give these things to herself. Because it is in this she can get through her dark hours, face whatever is ahead of her. 

I deal with people who are facing the journey of death and at this point the bravado of they have found some self help prattle to beat fear is really a fancy way of being in denial, a control freak clings desperately to outer constructs such as god is my bestie, eventually this gives way and then disappears and in its place ones efforts are put into nurturing inner peace and self comfort. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

I wish it were all true, all that about gaining inner peace and comfort and acceptance in the face of one's end. A beautiful Hollywood death with soft, sad music playing, a person lying in bed, surrounded by loved ones as they breath their last, murmur their last goodbyes, a beatific expression on their face and camera fade. It's just--I've never seen one like that. I remember my grandfather as lay in a life support bed suffering from wounds inflicted by an unsuccessful surgery, see me standing over him, reaching for my hand, desperate in his moment of crisis for that human contact, the pain and the fear in his eyes. He died, early the next morning, alone save for machinery and hospital personnel. 

I remember my grandmother on her last visit to a hospital she'd been in so many times before, waking and looking at me and mother and asking in a piteous tone if wasn't time for her to go home, as I had taken her home so many times before. She had kidney failure, but lingered on for weeks, with bursts of hope of improvement, just as quickly dashed. Mother finally had her taken off life support and she slowly faded, life signs growing weaker and weaker. I held her hand, remembering my grandfather, so she didn't die, cut off from all flesh, until she gave her last breath, one long rasping exhale as life and her spirit left her frail body.

I remember my father who had been so strong and seemly healthy just six months before, being brought home from the hospital, the EMTs escorting him in and knew they'd sent him home prematurely. He aspirated and choked on his bile that night, right before my eyes. I saw the shadow of death flash over his face, his eyes locked on mine with horror and sadness and complete realization of what was happening to him. When I close my eyes I can still his and that look in them that I'll never forget. 

I remember my mother, her last year and a half, confined to her bed, yet wanting to live, not wanting to die. I had help for a while with her from relatives, but they fell by the wayside, no stomach for it. They said I should put her in a nursing home, a warehouse for the soon to be dead. She would have none of it and I wouldn't force her. I cared for her alone, for year, while holding down a job. Finally, my failing health forced me to hospital. The day after I was admitted and without consulting me, my brother sent her to a nursing home where she died, alone and without family there, six days later. Loneliness and a broken heart hastened her end.

I don't imagine for a moment that any of them wanted to die, that they had found peace, or willingness to accept the inevitable. You see, all an old person is, at heart, is a young person whose body grew old and failed them. That is the image of youth we all hold in our minds and that young person inside of all of us never wants to die, ever, not at 21 or 91. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[Mr Walker]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

MW, compassion has nothing to do with loving the self, it is about recognizing suffering, this is imperative and then seeking to alleviate it. 

To grasp the depths of compassionate it would serve one to understand their own suffering, to have transcended pain in their own life, this is what gives insight and the wisdom nessecary to constructively alleviate another’s suffering. 

If one can’t recognize or connect to their own suffering. One can’t see it in others. 

It is way beyond caring, it is about connecting to another as if it is you, you wouldn’t see the suffering as separate you would see it as if it was you. 

Compassion isn’t a feel good, do good deeds, pat oneself on the back and  call it a day, it is an intense journey that requires all of you and it is not for the faint of heart, it requires strength and a strong psyche. 

Many equate compassion to motherhood, when a child is sick a mother would do anything to alleviate the suffering even take on the sickness. 

While I have raised 3 wonderful sons, I personally don’t count these as acts of compassion they are my sons, I would give them anything. 

I do count the 4 experiences ( 2 as a live in caregiver) the other two situations that were personal as great gifts and opportunities for me to actually alleviate suffering,  None were easy, in fact, they were intense on various levels and my success was in large part due to my own personal pain and suffering and deeply profoundly understanding what they were going through and I knew how to help because I could relate personally. 

Not to say you aren’t a caring person, or haven’t done good deeds, clearly you have.

No point in recognising suffering if you cant be bothered caring about it, and doing something about it.   It is caring/compassion which motivates one person to do something for another

I agree that it helps a person to understand and care for others if they not only know how to love themselves but how to strengthen themselves, empower themselves, give themselves resilience etc

These are learned techniques and once  you learn to apply them to yourself then you can also teach others how to learn them for themselves and apply them to themsleves  

BUT one doesn't have to be sick to heal another and one doesn't have to be suffering to heal anothers suffering, or help them to heal themselves

You make compassion too complex. It is very simple. CARE about others and then act on your care. Indeed it is not "do good, feel good"  it is a moral duty and imperative in humans because we have a self aware consciousness  We can feel anothers pain becsue we know what pain is and so we can also teach others how to heal, once we have learned how to heal ourselves

You act compassionately to your kids. Many parents do not.  This shows you have the abiltiy and skills to show compassion to any one and everyone.

  Maybe you decide who is deserving of compassion and who is not. Most humans do this .

.Compassion is something you can show to every person you meet, every day  That is not easy, but it is possible. it requires a consistent, self aware,  intent to think and act with compassion 

  Are you saying you only recognise 4 major acts of compassion in your life?

  I am sure you have exhibited many more than this. When you give money to a homeless person, or donate to a good cause, that is compassion. When you say a kind world to a person in pain, or to encourage and uplift their spirits, that is compassion. When you do a little something for someone in need, that is compassion.    

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

On 3/8/2018 at 0:41 AM, PsiSeeker said:

God was easier to understand for me than Jesus.
I don't really like Jesus...
My dude could walk on water, cure blindness, bring food etc.  Second coming is supposed to be judgement day...  Who the hell is excited to get torn to pieces by the son of God...

Assuming "Jesus" was on Earth, "His" miraculous powers came from Christ, at least one story states; so, Jesus, the human being, was a possessed messenger, possessed by Christ, the perfect Light (or the Third Male). The Third Male is the one who resurrected Jesus, so the story goes. Why would Jesus (the resurrected man who was eventually taken up to Heaven after his task was finished...) come back to this "veil of tears" (world) when the BIG plan was to teach some selected disciples how to escape this "veil of tears" (world)? Is this a case of too many Johns spoiled the broth??

From another narrative: Why would a God of Love, who apparently came to this world to be sacrificed to gain converts, condemn His followers (those who dogged the god of this world and joined His "Kingdom")?

Other Christians (there are many types, not just one or two) believe "Christ" never set foot on Earth since He's a phantom or Light. After all, Christ is the (blinding) Light St. Paul talks about in the Bible, not a physical, flesh-and-blood body.

At any rate, do some research on (Christian) mystery religion(s), history of the ROMAN Catholic Church, Judaizers, Ophians, Serpent, Gnosis, demiurge, the Jesus candidates, Marcionism, Neoplatonism, and more. Will you still be saying, "I don't really like Jesus" once you see a much bigger picture?

Peace.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Ehrman Pagels 1
typo

[+Sherapy]

19 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I wish it were all true, all that about gaining inner peace and comfort and acceptance in the face of one's end. A beautiful Hollywood death with soft, sad music playing, a person lying in bed, surrounded by loved ones as they breath their last, murmur their last goodbyes, a beatific expression on their face and camera fade. It's just--I've never seen one like that. I remember my grandfather as lay in a life support bed suffering from wounds inflicted by an unsuccessful surgery, see me standing over him, reaching for my hand, desperate in his moment of crisis for that human contact, the pain and the fear in his eyes. He died, early the next morning, alone save for machinery and hospital personnel. 

I remember my grandmother on her last visit to a hospital she'd been in so many times before, waking and looking at me and mother and asking in a piteous tone if wasn't time for her to go home, as I had taken her home so many times before. She had kidney failure, but lingered on for weeks, with bursts of hope of improvement, just as quickly dashed. Mother finally had her taken off life support and she slowly faded, life signs growing weaker and weaker. I held her hand, remembering my grandfather, so she didn't die, cut off from all flesh, until she gave her last breath, one long rasping exhale as life and her spirit left her frail body.

I remember my father who had been so strong and seemly healthy just six months before, being brought home from the hospital, the EMTs escorting him in and knew they'd sent him home prematurely. He aspirated and choked on his bile that night, right before my eyes. I saw the shadow of death flash over his face, his eyes locked on mine with horror and sadness and complete realization of what was happening to him. When I close my eyes I can still his and that look in them that I'll never forget. 

I remember my mother, her last year and a half, confined to her bed, yet wanting to live, not wanting to die. I had help for a while with her from relatives, but they fell by the wayside, no stomach for it. They said I should put her in a nursing home, a warehouse for the soon to be dead. She would have none of it and I wouldn't force her. I cared for her alone, for year, while holding down a job. Finally, my failing health forced me to hospital. The day after I was admitted and without consulting me, my brother sent her to a nursing home where she died, alone and without family there, six days later. Loneliness and a broken heart hastened her end.

I don't imagine for a moment that any of them wanted to die, that they had found peace, or willingness to accept the inevitable. You see, all an old person is, at heart, is a young person whose body grew old and failed them. That is the image of youth we all hold in our minds and that young person inside of all of us never wants to die, ever, not at 21 or 91. 

Inner peace and the ability to self comfort are tools some nurture while facing their impending death. 

I learned about this from those that were facing death. 

I am amazed at the wisdom I have gathered and am gathering from those that are terminal. 

And from those that are terrified of death, I have learned much from this too. 

Namely, It is a tough way to go, but it is always ones choice, 

I always have loved the Iliad, the Oddessy and Beowulf they reflections of  cultures that were honored to die and sought a good death. 

The ultimate tipping of ones hat in an honorable death, to a life well lived. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Sherapy

[Truthseeker007]

17 hours ago, Ehrman Pagels 1 said:

Assuming "Jesus" was on Earth, "His" miraculous powers came from Christ, at least one story states; so, Jesus, the human being, was a possessed messenger, possessed by Christ, the perfect Light (or the Third Male). The Third Male is the one who resurrected Jesus, so the story goes. Why would Jesus (the resurrected man who was eventually taken up to Heaven after his task was finished...) come back to this "veil of tears" (world) when the BIG plan was to teach some selected disciples how to escape this "veil of tears" (world)? Is this a case of too many Johns spoiled the broth??

From another narrative: Why would a God of Love, who apparently came to this world to be sacrificed to gain converts, condemn His followers (those who dogged the god of this world and joined His "Kingdom")?

Other Christians (there are many types, not just one or two) believe "Christ" never set foot on Earth since He's a phantom or Light. After all, Christ is the (blinding) Light St. Paul talks about in the Bible, not a physical, flesh-and-blood body.

At any rate, do some research on (Christian) mystery religion(s), history of the ROMAN Catholic Church, Judaizers, Ophians, Serpent, Gnosis, demiurge, the Jesus candidates, Marcionism, Neoplatonism, and more. Will you still be saying, "I don't really like Jesus" once you see a much bigger picture?

Peace.

Well said!

[Davros of Skaro]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:23 AM, PsiSeeker said:

We can get all metaphorical and hidden meaning on it if we like but the sleep terrors I had as kid burnt the perception of Jesus the literal man in mind fairly powerfully.

The things Jesus would do for humanity out of love are similar sorts of stories I tell myself as a kid.  With the exception that I don't die and come back... 

Believe... Don't believe... I saw sixth sense the movie as a kid and knowing that it was fake didn't stop me being scared af about dead people around every corner.

I understand the underlying message.  A lot of that is already a part of my core personality.  I'm actually just interested in the drama playing out.

Imagine if this was a movie...  The son of God...  Absolutely unbelievable.  Dude seems like way more of a bad ass in my imagination than in the bible 

Just watch 1:50-4:50 of this video and you will feel better.

 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

On 3/8/2018 at 3:41 AM, PsiSeeker said:

So...  A woman came up to me today and started speaking at me about the return of Jesus.  I wonder what percentage of the population aren't aware of this already that she's reaching out to...  Like... It's still news to be spread.

I find it extremely uncomfortable and off putting as I feel a large degree of religion is personal.

I mean... It's possible I was looking a little down and the best case scenario is she's dropping an existential water bomb on me.  Sometimes people who think they're spreading the good are only exacerbating current issues... 

Honestly... When I first learned about Jesus as a kid I had to pretend a lot in order to grasp what was being spoken of.  God was easier to understand for me than Jesus.

I don't really like Jesus...  I thought I was the best person in the world when I was a kid so it only caused existential dread in me that I might be Jesus and not know it.  A bit of an identity crisis when I was a kid being told the best person in the world gets himself crucified....  What a horrific story to tell children...  I had nightmares for months.

So something that confuses me is that the first time he's on earth was sort of "easy mode".  My dude could walk on water, cure blindness, bring food etc.  Second coming is supposed to be judgement day...  Who the hell is excited to get torn to pieces by the son of God... I mean... Are you really that certain how he'd judge you...  Makes me nervous as hell... I'm already judgemental and highly self critical to begin with...  It amazes me how highly optimistic people are of the goods of religion.  "Yeah I'm good I repent I'll be right..." not even an inkling of doubt?  >.>  Willfull blindness man.  I stress the hell part first...  Not the heaven part.  As humans we assume worst case scenarios, particularly in dreams, since that helps with survival.  You get told **** like this you aren't thinking "woohoo heaven" man...  At least... I didn't.  Taken 23 years and counting of an and off thought to try and straighten out that moral dilemma.  Dear lord...  Please take care about dropping the Jesus bomb...  Some of us are sensitive af. 

I do agree with you on one thing first, that religion and spiritualism is personal. Well, my feelings on it agrees with you.  And I'm in the same manner of thinking that how can those who come up and declare it being news, when it's been around for a loong time. And that, and I feel I'm also echoing Kismit's thoughts here, that I would see it as rude too. I think it's one thing, if someone came up and just said something that was breaking news, and probably didn't think you heard it yet. And even then, one has to hesitate until it's actually definite news by varying sources. (I think, the iffyness of the honesty of real news, I see as  when comparing to those who think spreading religious info as 'news'. 

Well, anyways, I don't know if my secular upbringing might bring a different outlook on this. I grew up not being 'educated' about Jesus, and God and traditionally attending services, but yet, in my secular youth, and my unique New Age spirituality, I see the individual Jesus, be he miraculous or not, to be someone that is needed and blessed in this world. In the least, someone to learn from. As for the things that happened to him, I guess I see it as an outsider and feel, outside sources did that to him and to me, well, that's a shame. I guess, yeah, that's something that doesn't make sense to me, the dying for our sins bit. I really don't get it. 

I wonder, do you feel some form of being guided by God, or maybe Jesus, and hope the atmosphere surrounding both be different?

Now, I have been going through the thread, and I can see how certain things you view, matches mine. This part: 

Quote

In regards to the dark psyche stuff.  Dr Jordan B Peterson says to know your capacity to be a monster...  And then to not do that.  It's important to one's character to know the ability one has to be malevolent. 

I often feel that way. Mostly so, if that darkness is there, and I don't think it can be..... ignored. Though, sometimes, in the midst of me feeling this way, I do question myself, if I'm ......................................... healthy.  But, at the least, I totally understand you on this. 

I wonder though, if you grew up like I did, in a secular setting where you're not taught about religion in your home and through your family and their lifestyle, how would you then consider Jesus and God, through those eyes? 

*shrugs*

 

[Guyver]

On 3/8/2018 at 1:33 AM, Kismit said:

 

One of my favorite sayings is that, I have no problem with the teachings of Jesus, but I have many problems with some of his folllowers.

I understand this point, and have no criticism for it.  I guess my problem is are the teachings of Jesus actually good?  Sure, on the sermon on the mount there are some positive points, do unto others...etc, and these are not unique to Christianity.  The chop off your hand, pluck out your eye teachings don’t get much play, nor does the eat my flesh and drink my blood.

i really liked the woman taken in adultery lesson, and considered it to be one of Jesus finest, next only to the Good Samaritan parable.  It was a shock to learn that the Woman Taken in Adultery was not actually a teaching of Jesus but was added to the Bible later.

[+joc]

37 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I understand this point, and have no criticism for it.  I guess my problem is are the teachings of Jesus actually good?  Sure, on the sermon on the mount there are some positive points, do unto others...etc, and these are not unique to Christianity.  The chop off your hand, pluck out your eye teachings don’t get much play, nor does the eat my flesh and drink my blood.

i really liked the woman taken in adultery lesson, and considered it to be one of Jesus finest, next only to the Good Samaritan parable.  It was a shock to learn that the Woman Taken in Adultery was not actually a teaching of Jesus but was added to the Bible later.

Where did you learn the woman of adultery was added later?

[Dejarma]

said backwards= jesus is sausage & god is dog- kinda sums it up for me....

2018 & many still believe in this ridiculous BS!

the day 'ALL' religion is eradicated from this planet could well be the day of our enlightenment for all we know.

maybe then we might get a visit from another race of beings= ya know just waiting for us to get past this primitive stage of evolution- something they've seen & waited for a thousand times over.

who knows

Edited March 12, 2018 by Dejarma

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, joc said:

Where did you learn the woman of adultery was added later?

Through study.  “Misquoting Jesus” handles it nicely and it is the work of a legitimate and professional bible scholar.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Through study.  “Misquoting Jesus” handles it nicely and it is the work of a legitimate and professional bible scholar.

Never heard of it.  Care to post a link?

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, joc said:

Never heard of it.  Care to post a link?

https://archive.org/stream/Prof.BartEhrman-MisquotingJesus/BartD.Ehrman-MisquotingJesus_djvu.txt

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

https://archive.org/stream/Prof.BartEhrman-MisquotingJesus/BartD.Ehrman-MisquotingJesus_djvu.txt

Thank you~