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Trump will meet with Kim Jong Un

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RAyMO
3 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Even though   North Korea signed with President Trump to  completely denuclearize you call it  a simple meet & greet. 

this was not new it was same wording as used with moon weeks back.

ETA and the denuclearise includes the south and any US nuclear capability there as well. But I said early it is an important first step. But at this stage many more need to be taken, hopefully both will stay calm enough to allow that to happen.

Edited by RAyMO

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ExpandMyMind
28 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

if Kim chooses to violate said agreement

This would be a bit difficult since Kim didn't actually agree to anything. 

Quote

The most remarkable aspect of the joint statement was what it didn’t contain. There was nothing about North Korea freezing plutonium and uranium programs, nothing about destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, nothing about allowing inspectors to return to nuclear sites, nothing about North Korea making a full declaration of its nuclear program, nothing about a timetable, nothing about verification, not even any clear pledge to permanently halt testing of nuclear weapons or long-range missiles.

 

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StarMountainKid
5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

This small initial meeting does not actually accomplish anything concrete, and yet at the same time this is a huge milestone and could in the near future be considered a very significant bit of statesmanship by Donald Trump.  A face to face like this is certainly a bigger accomplishment than "We came, we saw, he died" or paying a nation that supports international terrorism billions to temporarily cut back their own nuclear ambitions.

My point is, this is not a huge milestone nor a significant bit of statesmanship. It's a third-world dictator coercing the U.S. into treating it as an equal. 

Kim is not going to nuke the world, it's a clever ploy to enhance his stature in world events. Kim has accomplished his agenda. This insignificant brutal dictator is now a player on the world stage. It's an ego trip for Mr. Kim. 

Kim now has the upper hand, he has nothing to loose and everything to gain by U.S. concessions. He concedes by scaling down his nuclear threat he had no intention of using anyway. 

 

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Gromdor

Well, one thing that it accomplished was that it got both sides to stop with the sword rattling.  We stop our exercises and Kim won't be launching missiles over Japan any time soon.  The threat of nuclear war is significantly lessened.  

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RAyMO

I think stopping war games is a positive thing - I just get the impression that the S Koreans would have like fore-warning that it might happen.

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hacktorp
18 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

the US literally got nothing.

Oh...were you thinking British taxpayers funded US war games around the planet?

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hacktorp
14 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

My point is, this is not a huge milestone nor a significant bit of statesmanship. It's a third-world dictator coercing the U.S. into treating it as an equal. 

Kim is not going to nuke the world, it's a clever ploy to enhance his stature in world events. Kim has accomplished his agenda. This insignificant brutal dictator is now a player on the world stage. It's an ego trip for Mr. Kim. 

Kim now has the upper hand, he has nothing to loose and everything to gain by U.S. concessions. He concedes by scaling down his nuclear threat he had no intention of using anyway. 

 

Yes...your world is collapsing.  Please continue to abandon hope.

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Merc14
16 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

My point is, this is not a huge milestone nor a significant bit of statesmanship. It's a third-world dictator coercing the U.S. into treating it as an equal. 

Actually it was a lot of both.  Trump's rhetoric, threats and playing hardball got massive sanctions placed on NK and forced them to stop launching missiles and start negotiating, something King Obama couldn't do.  He also made leftists, like you, miserable at the same time

16 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Kim is not going to nuke the world, it's a clever ploy to enhance his stature in world events. Kim has accomplished his agenda. This insignificant brutal dictator is now a player on the world stage. It's an ego trip for Mr. Kim. 

All he had to do was nuke Seoul.  

16 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Kim now has the upper hand, he has nothing to loose and everything to gain by U.S. concessions. He concedes by scaling down his nuclear threat he had no intention of using anyway. 

Kim has nothing and the fact that you refuse to see that is very telling.

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RAyMO
29 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I don't really see that stopping the war games is actually a concession. 

Although he did concede they were 'very provocative'. 

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hacktorp

Did you know that, unlike Trump and Kim, not a single signature was attached to the so-called Iran Nuclear Deal?  Not one.  Not. A. Single. One.

And that was supposed to be Obama's crowning diplomatic achievement.  Pffft.

(Of course, it was a criminal shake-down of US taxpayers and a payoff to Iranian fake mullahs...so who would WANT to sign it?)

Edited by hacktorp
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Aquila King

Sheesh, Obama's been out of office for over a year now and people still keep blaming him for everything. :mellow:

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hacktorp
1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

Sheesh, Obama's been out of office for over a year now and people still keep blaming him for everything. :mellow:

I think you've just hit upon the Dem's new 2020 campaign slogan:

"Can't we just forget about Barack Obama?"

Look for it on bumper stickers on both coasts...

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Merc14
8 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Sheesh, Obama's been out of office for over a year now and people still keep blaming him for everything. :mellow:

Were you one of the folks cheering Obama's deal with the Mullahs in Iran?  You know, the one where he pushed $150 billlion into their coffers for a "promise" not to work on their nukes for a decade?   The one they didn't even bother signing?

Edited by Merc14

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

I think you've just hit upon the Dem's new 2020 campaign slogan:

"Can't we just forget about Barack Obama?"

Look for it on bumper stickers on both coasts...

Out of curiosity, what specific policy positions did you disagree with Obama on?

I constantly hear conservatives railing against Obama, but I hardly ever here why they do.

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Aquila King
Just now, Merc14 said:

Were you one of the folks cheering Obama's deal with the Mullahs in Iran?  You know, the one where he pushed $150 billlion into their coffers for a "promise" not to work on their nukes for a decade?   The one they didn't even bother signing?

I have no clue why conservatives despise the Iran deal. :hmm: Yes, I supported the Iran deal. One of the few things I agreed with Obama on. And?

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hacktorp
2 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Out of curiosity, what specific policy positions did you disagree with Obama on?

While there were many, Obama's policy position toward Libya was criminal.  Photos like this are currently making the rounds:

libya%204.jpg

Thanks Obama.  You belong in Guantanamo.

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hacktorp
4 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I have no clue why conservatives despise the Iran deal

Don't worry...being clueless is not a crime.

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Aquila King
Just now, hacktorp said:

While there were many, Obama's policy position toward Libya was criminal.

If you're talking about going in and toppling Libya after forcing them to lay down their weapons, then yes I would agree.

2 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Photos like this are currently making the rounds:

libya%204.jpg

Wtf? :huh: What are you getting at here?

3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Thanks Obama.  You belong in Guantanamo.

Woooah there bud. Guantanamo is one of the worst civil rights atrocities the US ever conceived. I consider Obama's failure to shut it down as one of the biggest scandals of his administration, yet you're calling for him to be actively tortured essentially as punishment.

I'm no fan of Obama, but I don't support torturing anyone. Period.

4 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Don't worry...being clueless is not a crime.

Trying to make sense of the inherently senseless is a daily struggle for me, I will admit.

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OverSword
1 hour ago, StarMountainKid said:

My point is, this is not a huge milestone nor a significant bit of statesmanship. It's a third-world dictator coercing the U.S. into treating it as an equal. 

Kim is not going to nuke the world, it's a clever ploy to enhance his stature in world events. Kim has accomplished his agenda. This insignificant brutal dictator is now a player on the world stage. It's an ego trip for Mr. Kim. 

Kim now has the upper hand, he has nothing to loose and everything to gain by U.S. concessions. He concedes by scaling down his nuclear threat he had no intention of using anyway. 

 

Coerced?  LOL!  As if the entire world has not been calling for the USA to do something about this country for decades now.  Should we leave it up to some other country?  Let SK deal with them and pull out?  Do you think we should just ignore him?  Do nothing while he launches missiles over a Japan who we are obligated to protect and defend?  What do you think we should do exactly?  Nuke NK?  Get real.  A little positive progress is happening here hopefully leading up to a successful and peaceful disarmament  but somehow the USA are just being Patsy's for the genius dictator.  Okay.

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hacktorp
10 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

yet you're calling for him to be actively tortured essentially as punishment.

You have a very vivid imagination....but no, Guantanamo is where military trials are held.  That is what Obama needs to face.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

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Merc14
5 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I have no clue why conservatives despise the Iran deal. :hmm: Yes, I supported the Iran deal. One of the few things I agreed with Obama on. And?

Let's see why I disagreeed with it:

1.  It pumped $150 Billion into a wrecked economy which greattly helped Iran fund their terorist enetrprises around teh world.

2.  US Military aircraft landing pallets of cash totalling near $2 billion dollars  offloading in Iran was an international embarrassment.

3. The inspection restrictions were an absolute joke and nearly worthless

4.  It wasn't just conservatives that disagreed with it the democrats did to which is why Obama didn't try amd do a treay wioth Iran. he'd never get any support in congress.

5.  The agreement was primarily writen by the Irananian lead scientist aand in a speech claimed “According to the JCPOA, we have kept our nuclear program in accordance with our needs and requirements for [carrying out] research and development.”   In other words they were continuing their research all over the country.

6.  The deal essenitally allowed Iran to build a bomb legally while taking the economic pressure of sanctions off their backs thereby provifding neccessary funding for said research.

7.  The only way to stop Iran from get ting a bomb was teh overthrow of the militant regime building it and only sanctions could accomplish that.  The Iran deal undid what sanctions had done with little gain for us.

8.  The Iranians didn't even sign the thing.

9. We gave up a lot for very very little, if anything, in return and simultaneously alienated our allies in the region.

You know what good thing it did?  It allowed Trump to forge never before seen allianace in the region between the Arabs states and Israel.   

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Aquila King
2 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

You have a very vivid imagination....but no, Guantanamo is where military trials are held.  That is what Obama needs to face.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Guantanamo Bay is an illegal torture camp. It's one of the most brutal human rights abuses ever conceived by the US.

To deny this is akin to holocaust denial. Lying will get you nowhere.

http://www.newsweek.com/torture-used-us-military-guantanamo-bay-despite-being-banned-un-says-747373

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-gitmo-detainee-on-torture-they-broke-me/

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hacktorp
8 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Guantanamo Bay is an illegal torture camp. It's one of the most brutal human rights abuses ever conceived by the US.

To deny this is akin to holocaust denial. Lying will get you nowhere.

The "lie" here is your accusation that I was calling for Obama to be tortured.  You were being hyperbolic (and wrong).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_military_commission

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hacktorp
22 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Let's see why I disagreeed with it:

1.  It pumped $150 Billion into a wrecked economy which greattly helped Iran fund their terorist enetrprises around teh world.

2.  US Military aircraft landing pallets of cash totalling near $2 billion dollars  offloading in Iran was an international embarrassment.

3. The inspection restrictions were an absolute joke and nearly worthless

4.  It wasn't just conservatives that disagreed with it the democrats did to which is why Obama didn't try amd do a treay wioth Iran. he'd never get any support in congress.

5.  The agreement was primarily writen by the Irananian lead scientist aand in a speech claimed “According to the JCPOA, we have kept our nuclear program in accordance with our needs and requirements for [carrying out] research and development.”   In other words they were continuing their research all over the country.

6.  The deal essenitally allowed Iran to build a bomb legally while taking the economic pressure of sanctions off their backs thereby provifding neccessary funding for said research.

7.  The only way to stop Iran from get ting a bomb was teh overthrow of the militant regime building it and only sanctions could accomplish that.  The Iran deal undid what sanctions had done with little gain for us.

8.  The Iranians didn't even sign the thing.

9. We gave up a lot for very very little, if anything, in return and simultaneously alienated our allies in the region.

You know what good thing it did?  It allowed Trump to forge never before seen allianace in the region between the Arabs states and Israel.   

10.  Obama gave Iranian Mullahs access to the US financial system in order to allow free and unfettered laundering of their multi-currency extortion payments.

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skliss
1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

Sheesh, Obama's been out of office for over a year now and people still keep blaming him for everything. :mellow:

Obama and the left blamed everything on Bush for the entire 8 years!! Lol

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