Aquila King Posted March 11, 2018 #1 Share Posted March 11, 2018 I've heard over and over again people calling me a Communist or whatever for being a Democratic Socialist, so it seems that most people don't even know what Democratic Socialism even is. That, or they knowingly use 'Communist' as a hateful slur. Either way, I found this little info pic a good explanation of it so I thought I'd share: 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted March 11, 2018 #2 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Socialism doesn't work in any form. Corporations always buy the politicians and then there is always the welfare profiteer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 11, 2018 #3 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Eleven days days ago the OP was claiming he was a Libertarian leftist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 11, 2018 #4 Share Posted March 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, acidhead said: Eleven days days ago the OP was claiming he was a Libertarian leftist. I think those are pretty interchangeable terms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LV-426 Posted March 11, 2018 Popular Post #5 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Labels... I have to say I'm not fond of them. I studied politics at uni for a while, and the first thing you are taught are the definitions of the various political ideologies. Every single one looked good in theory, and every single one that has been implemented throughout history has ended up being bastardized by powerful people seeking more power. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted March 11, 2018 #6 Share Posted March 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, LV-426 said: Labels... I have to say I'm not fond of them. I studied politics at uni for a while, and the first thing you are taught are the definitions of the various political ideologies. Every single one looked good in theory, and every single one that has been implemented throughout history has ended up being bastardized by powerful people seeking more power. That's why I just don't get this obsession with having to put people in left and right boxes. We get it enough in the UK but the US just seems to have taken it to ridiculous extreme. Every issue has to be split by left and right (even down to what bathroom you use ffs). It's like you have to pick one label and then you MUST support every policy 'your' party has. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Farmer77 Posted March 11, 2018 Popular Post #7 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Setton said: That's why I just don't get this obsession with having to put people in left and right boxes. We get it enough in the UK but the US just seems to have taken it to ridiculous extreme. Every issue has to be split by left and right (even down to what bathroom you use ffs). It's like you have to pick one label and then you MUST support every policy 'your' party has. Its the simplest way to fool a population into falsely believing they are free. We were warned by the damn father of this nation that this was going to happen: Quote The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty George Washington Quote There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution. John Adams The Founding Fathers Tried to Warn Us About the Threat From a Two-Party System Edited March 11, 2018 by Farmer77 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted March 11, 2018 #8 Share Posted March 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Its the simplest way to fool a population into falsely believing they are free. We were warned by the damn father of this nation that this was going to happen: The Founding Fathers Tried to Warn Us About the Threat From a Two-Party System Did not know that. I mean it's literally there word for word... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 11, 2018 #9 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Piney said: Socialism doesn't work in any form. Corporations always buy the politicians and then there is always the welfare profiteer. Capitalism doesn't really either, does it; not in the way that it's sold to us as providing "choice" and ensuring that we get the best and most competitive product (or a political system which truly represents us). The very nature of it means that it inevitably must result in giant monopolies forming, or, as is the case in Western society, usually three or four giant corporations that swallow up all the smaller competitors (which often offered much better products),and tie up the market between them while pretending to compete with one another. And exactly the same happens with democracy; democracy goes in exactly the same way in the US and UK, certainly), two giant corporations that tie up the market between them and pretend to compete with each other, while conspiring to make sure that any new competitors can't get a foot in the door, and gives us exactly as much an illusion of choice. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted March 11, 2018 #10 Share Posted March 11, 2018 In an ideal world we take the bits that work from all systems and duct tape them together to create a system that works. we take the bread and circuses from Rome, that there’s the baseline. We make sure everyone has enough to survive. We add healthcare (from dirty socialism) to that list of “need to survive”. We add education to that list of necessaries. But that’s pretty much it. You get a free education from the government where the government says. You get to eat what the government says is the necessary basics. You want more? In comes capitalism. You work for it. You want jam on that bread? Get a job. You want a car not public transport? Get a job. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted March 11, 2018 #11 Share Posted March 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said: And exactly the same happens with democracy; democracy goes in exactly the same way in the US and UK, certainly), two giant corporations that tie up the market between them and pretend to compete with each other, while conspiring to make sure that any new competitors can't get a foot in the door, and gives us exactly as much an illusion of choice. Not in the democracy which my people practiced and the one Frank Herbert devised based on ours in "Chapterhouse Dune". A complete precipitory democracy works because nobody can take absolute power and the spoils system would fail. It's why Ben Franklin wanted to use it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 11, 2018 #12 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Perhaps another reason why those who established the political system the United States enjoys now were so anxious to eradicate the societies and their structures that already existed,in case people got some ideas from them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted March 11, 2018 #13 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Vlad the Mighty said: Perhaps another reason why those who established the political system the United States enjoys now were so anxious to eradicate the societies and their structures that already existed,in case people got some ideas from them. Double like! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted March 11, 2018 #14 Share Posted March 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Aquila King said: I've heard over and over again people calling me a Communist or whatever for being a Democratic Socialist, so it seems that most people don't even know what Democratic Socialism even is. That, or they knowingly use 'Communist' as a hateful slur. Either way, I found this little info pic a good explanation of it so I thought I'd share: That seems like a rather warm fuzzy definition considering Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Ernesto Lynch were all Democratic Socialists and mass murderers. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 11, 2018 #15 Share Posted March 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: That seems like a rather warm fuzzy definition considering Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Ernesto Lynch were all Democratic Socialists and mass murderers. facepalm....no no they weren't 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted March 11, 2018 #16 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: facepalm....no no they weren't Aww look at you giving in to the kool-aide. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted March 11, 2018 #17 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Farmer77 said: facepalm....no no they weren't Okay how about Hitler. No matter how you slice it Democratic Socialists are bad news. Socialism in any form goes against human nature same with communism. We are not wired to work that way. Now I could go on some long dissertation about how it doesn't work but I will let history speak for itself. Socialism looks good on paper but in practice ends with a really large body count and a population using 50 year old technology trying to scrape by with whatever crumbs fall off the parties table. Edited March 11, 2018 by MiskatonicGrad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted March 12, 2018 #18 Share Posted March 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: Okay how about Hitler. No matter how you slice it Democratic Socialists are bad news. Socialism in any form goes against human nature same with communism. We are not wired to work that way. Now I could go on some long dissertation about how it doesn't work but I will let history speak for itself. Socialism looks good on paper but in practice ends with a really large body count and a population using 50 year old technology trying to scrape by with whatever crumbs fall off the parties table. Have you actually read the definition of democratic socialism in the OP? It's not what you think it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted March 12, 2018 #19 Share Posted March 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: Okay how about Hitler. No matter how you slice it Democratic Socialists are bad news. Socialism in any form goes against human nature same with communism. We are not wired to work that way. Now I could go on some long dissertation about how it doesn't work but I will let history speak for itself. Socialism looks good on paper but in practice ends with a really large body count and a population using 50 year old technology trying to scrape by with whatever crumbs fall off the parties table. Really? Medicines and hospitals are socialism. Education? Socialism. Veterans Association? Socialist. In fact anything that benefits the group over the individual is socialism. You should read more. Hank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted March 12, 2018 #20 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: Really? Medicines and hospitals are socialism. Education? Socialism. Veterans Association? Socialist. In fact anything that benefits the group over the individual is socialism. You should read more. Ignorance is no excuse in this day and age. With a few key taps, the truth is there for anybody to see. Unless you'd rather take the word of corrupt politicians who don't give one crap about you. Hank Edited March 12, 2018 by Hankenhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted March 12, 2018 Author #21 Share Posted March 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: Okay how about Hitler. No matter how you slice it Democratic Socialists are bad news. Socialism in any form goes against human nature same with communism. We are not wired to work that way. Now I could go on some long dissertation about how it doesn't work but I will let history speak for itself. Socialism looks good on paper but in practice ends with a really large body count and a population using 50 year old technology trying to scrape by with whatever crumbs fall off the parties table. There just aren't enough facepalms... Dude, Hitler was a far right-wing extremist. A fascist. He wasn't in the least bit left wing. And I'm not saying that as a partisan statement, because I'll be the first to also say that Stalin was a super far left extremist. Both were rulers, both were evil, both on totally different sides of the political spectrum. All you're doing is showing how little you truly know about political science. You're taking everything that is 'bad' and labeling it as 'socialist' without the least bit understanding or care what the definition of socialism actually is. And then you have the guts to claim other members are 'drinking the kool-aide.' Do a little bare-basic research before you post on here, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted March 12, 2018 #22 Share Posted March 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: You are going to use out of control healthcare costs a horribly failing education system and have you ever been to a VA hospital as your defence for socialism? The fact that you people even consider socialism as a viable way to run anything proves how poor education is these days. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted March 12, 2018 Author #23 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: You are going to use out of control healthcare costs a horribly failing education system and have you ever been to a VA hospital as your defence for socialism? The fact that you people even consider socialism as a viable way to run anything proves how poor education is these days. Are you gonna keep blatantly ignoring the fact that you're misusing the term socialism? If so just let me know so I can exit this go-nowhere conversation immediately and get back to something more productive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted March 12, 2018 #24 Share Posted March 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said: You are going to use out of control healthcare costs a horribly failing education system and have you ever been to a VA hospital as your defence for socialism? The fact that you people even consider socialism as a viable way to run anything proves how poor education is these days. No, not by itself. Other posters had it right when they stated we need a blending of all the good ideas from different tenets and turf out the bad ones. All you want is decay and stagnation. Thats what conservatism is. Again, read a few books and educate yourself. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted March 12, 2018 #25 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Aquila King said: There just aren't enough facepalms... Dude, Hitler was a far right-wing extremist. A fascist. He wasn't in the least bit left wing. And I'm not saying that as a partisan statement, because I'll be the first to also say that Stalin was a super far left extremist. Both were rulers, both were evil, both on totally different sides of the political spectrum. All you're doing is showing how little you truly know about political science. You're taking everything that is 'bad' and labeling it as 'socialist' without the least bit understanding or care what the definition of socialism actually is. And then you have the guts to claim other members are 'drinking the kool-aide.' Do a little bare-basic research before you post on here, okay? Government control of anything doesn't work long term. Believe it or not politicians are usually no smarter or better than you and me in some cases less so. I really don't want me or you deciding what is best for 300 million people. So personally the least amount of government control the better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now