Massive student walk-out

[+susieice]

Who is to blame for people like the Texas church shooter and the Marjorie Douglas HS shooter and Sandy Hook? It isn't the kids' fault and it isn't our fault. Put these people in the NCIS and stop playing around. Doctors need to be given leverage in reporting patients who show mental illness or violent tendencies to authorities. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by susieice

[Stubbly_Dooright]

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I'm trying to understand your point about 'if you owned a gun and then prying it from your cold dead fingers'.

I mean that I support the second amendment wholeheartedly with every fiber of my being and believe that if you abolish the second amendment you have effectively abolished my country. 

Where are you getting I want to abolish the second amendment? 

I think this walkout is more than just calling attention to gun violence. And yes, looking at some of legalities of who can legally get guns, when they shouldn't get guns. 

I understand you wishing to keep your rights, I don't blame you. But, I do think I have made it known, that there is more to what needs to be addressed, not just attention to gun violence. 

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I could be getting this wrong, but are you telling students, minors at schools, 'to grow a backbone cowards?' Please correct me, if I misunderstood this. I mean, should we be calling minors cowards and telling them to have a backbone? 
 

You don't have to call them cowards, after all it's media hysteria which they are allowing themselves to be controlled by.  If you were to do the math what are the chances, do you think, of being a student shot by a school shooter in the USA?  Probably more likely to be struck by lightning.  So yes, get a backbone and stop living in fear.

You would say this to 5 and 6 year olds? Frankly, since most of the shootings are high school, I think it's just plain wrong to look at it this way. Lightning strikes, well, don't they cause the harm, if you're out exposed to it.?One would use some preparation to protect themselves from that, but having to be in a school, having to 'get a backbone' to the threat of someone going in and harming you, I consider that different. I have worked in places where there are drills in what happens when there are shooters. It's a reality, and I still would go to work knowing it happens. The big difference there is, I have a choice to work there, kids don't have a choice to go to school. 

And besides, and this is just my subjective observation, but I have yet to hear about anyone dying from a lightning strike, unfortunately, I hear more of kids dying in school shootings. I may have waited on the family, and their child, the child who was one of the victims of Sandy Hook at one place I worked. It made me sick inside when I recognized his picture in the paper the next day. 

3 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

Sadly that is from my home state.  A state where it is against the law to teach our state constitution in public schools.

Are you kidding me? I'm at a loss for words. I'm starting to think that some conspiracy theorists are right when they claim that there is a program to dumb down schools and students so that they will be malleable enough to embrace globalism. You constantly see things like "Farrakhan be good but Washington be Edomite" on some sites. It's not just that they're ignorant on government and history. They're also at the 1980 fourth-grade level in English. You start to understand why Hillary still has a lot of supporters. It's a good thing that we still have alternatives to public schools.   

Yeah, I don't remember being taught it too in school. And I think I'm on the other side of the country. 

 

[Agent0range]

3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Who is to blame for people like the Texas church shooter and the Marjorie Douglas HS shooter and Sandy Hook? It isn't the kids' fault and it isn't our fault. Put these people in the NCIS and stop playing around. Doctors need to be given leverage in reporting patients who show mental illness or violent tendencies to authorities. 

You would think so, right?  Take a gander around the forum, and you will literally see that all psychologists and psychiatrists are liberals that would report anyone to get rid of guns.  I wish I was being facetious...but I'm not.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 minutes ago, susieice said:

Who is to blame for people like the Texas church shooter and the Marjorie Douglas HS shooter and Sandy Hook? It isn't the kids' fault and it isn't our fault. Put these people in the NCIS and stop playing around. Doctors need to be given leverage in reporting patients who show mental illness or violent tendencies to authorities. 

 I would think that doctors already had to report them. Maybe, there's more to that I don't know. 

 

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 I would think that doctors already had to report them. Maybe, there's more to that I don't know. 

 

Because of laws like HIPAA, doctors walk a thin line regarding patient confidentiality. The Air Force didn't report the Texas Church shooter. The FBI didn't act on several reports about Cruz, who incidently was formally charged in court today and facing the death penalty. Stop playing around like this. When the signs are there, act!!!

[DarkHunter]

6 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

No matter how you look at it, these children are our future.  Has anyone that wasn't a Trump supporter prior to the election jumped on board?  Have any Trump voters in the 2016 election jumped ship?  I'm going to go with no, and yes.  And now they 14-17 year old kids that weren't able to vote prior to 2020...are they voting Trump?  Are they voting Republican by majority at all?  The 18th district in Pennsyvania, the heart of steel country that wouldn't even put forth a Democratic nominee n the past 2 elections couldn't even elect a drama free Republican.  You can whine and cry all you want...the movement is coming, and we aren't far away from the young outnumbering the old. 

Interestingly a lot of articles have generation z as being highly conservative, essentially the counter to the more liberal millennial generation.  

Basically just like most generations the newest generation rebels against the one above them and they decided to become conservative.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2017/08/11/why-democrats-should-be-losing-sleep-over-generation-z/amp/

Generation Z is socially and fiscally conservative except for weed, gay marriage, and global warming.  Bit of a stretch to call them a bastion of progressiveness.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ea34f7e4b034105edd4e32/amp

There are more articles that point to generation Z being the most conservative generation in decades.

Honestly what you are pronouncing sounds extremely similar to the previous liberal dream of the minority majority that was also proclaimed to herald the end of conservatives and usher in an era of unstoppable progressiveness, but it never came and it's now believed the political benefits they hoped for will never come.  Ironically it ends up kids that are mixed ethnicity, especially those who are half Latino and half white tend to self identify as largely white when they grow up and vote similarly to the white population and not the minority population liberals hoped for.  

How is your proclamation of the end of conservatives and the advancement of progressives any different then all of the past ones that never panned out.

[+susieice]

12 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

You would think so, right?  Take a gander around the forum, and you will literally see that all psychologists and psychiatrists are liberals that would report anyone to get rid of guns.  I wish I was being facetious...but I'm not.

Then that's their fault. If the NRA would stop paying politicians and start running their educational programs on gun safety again. Pass and you become a card carrying member of the NRA. How many of these morons doing the shootings are members? None?

[Agent0range]

3 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Interestingly a lot of articles have generation z as being highly conservative, essentially the counter to the more liberal millennial generation.  

Basically just like most generations the newest generation rebels against the one above them and they decided to become conservative.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2017/08/11/why-democrats-should-be-losing-sleep-over-generation-z/amp/

Generation Z is socially and fiscally conservative except for weed, gay marriage, and global warming.  Bit of a stretch to call them a bastion of progressiveness.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ea34f7e4b034105edd4e32/amp

There are more articles that point to generation Z being the most conservative generation in decades.

Honestly what you are pronouncing sounds extremely similar to the previous liberal dream of the minority majority that was also proclaimed to herald the end of conservatives and usher in an era of unstoppable progressiveness, but it never came and it's now believed the political benefits they hoped for will never come.  Ironically it ends up kids that are mixed ethnicity, especially those who are half Latino and half white tend to self identify as largely white when they grow up and vote similarly to the white population and not the minority population liberals hoped for.  

How is your proclamation of the end of conservatives and the advancement of progressives any different then all of the past ones that never panned out.

Generation Z are more likely to fall in line with their parents, but are far left on socially liberal ideas.  As a millennial, I personally am socially liberal, and moderately conservative.  I just can't get past the ideas of gay rights, women's rights, and equality altogether to vote Republican (although, I thought Kasich was the truth in 2016).  I don't care what kind of gun people want to own, as long as the possess the knowledge, training, and ability to own one, and even with that thinking, I am labeled "anti-gun" by conservatives.  Generation Z, by majority feels the same way I do.  Alienation is a powerful thing.  Social issues right now are far more important than fiscal issues, as we have had crises under Republican, and Democrat rule.  I have children that are considered Generation Z, and I know where they stand.  Here's a good read from a conservative source...https://nypost.com/2017/07/01/why-the-next-generation-after-millennials-will-vote-republican/

 

[Agent0range]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

Then that's their fault. If the NRA would stop paying politicians and start running their educational programs on gun safety again. Pass and you become a card carrying member of the NRA. How many of these morons doing the shootings are members? None?

Sure, none...because there are like 5 million members, and all old...that's like 2 percent of Americans.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Agent0range

[+susieice]

21 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Sure, none...because there are like 5 million members, and all old...that's like 2 percent of Americans.

There's a lot of Democrats that are gun owners. Maybe the older ones are members. If there's that few of them I wouldn't think they'd be much of a force to be reckoned with.

Edited March 15, 2018 by susieice

[DarkHunter]

8 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Generation Z are more likely to fall in line with their parents, but are far left on socially liberal ideas.  As a millennial, I personally am socially liberal, and moderately conservative.  I just can't get past the ideas of gay rights, women's rights, and equality altogether to vote Republican (although, I thought Kasich was the truth in 2016).  I don't care what kind of gun people want to own, as long as the possess the knowledge, training, and ability to own one, and even with that thinking, I am labeled "anti-gun" by conservatives.  Generation Z, by majority feels the same way I do.  Alienation is a powerful thing.  Social issues right now are far more important than fiscal issues, as we have had crises under Republican, and Democrat rule.  I have children that are considered Generation Z, and I know where they stand.  Here's a good read from a conservative source...https://nypost.com/2017/07/01/why-the-next-generation-after-millennials-will-vote-republican/

 

I got to disagree on social issues being far more important then fiscal issues to gen Z.  The social issues you mention are largely superficial at this point and not a core to conservatives as a whole.  What rights do women and gays not currently have that the rest of America does, and while you occasionally get a few loud radical right wingers demanding recent events be reversed they are by far the minority and largely ignored and not dictating policy.

Also I am a millennial, younger side of the millennial spectrum, but I have seen the complete opposite and see gen Z going conservative on largely fiscal issues.  Most of the gen Z I have talked and interacted with are definitely more concerned with their wallets then social rights overall.

Randomly, I do have one issue with the article and it's the generation Z being the last white majority generation.  It will only be the last white majority generation if you count Hispanics, which is a nationality, as an ethnicity which it isn't.  A large percentage of Hispanics are white, being the descendants of the Spanish and Portuguese.  I know this was off topic but I never could understand why a person would be counted as white if their ancestors came from Spain but not white if their ancestors went from Spain to Mexico to America.

[Likely Guy]

4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

NRA has been around since 1934. I went to schools in the 50`s, no violence in schools with guns, and our home door were always open . So what has happen in the last  decades, and why of these kids wanting to massacre so many kids in schools? What are the motives in their minds?

1871,if what I just read is correct.

"I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses." -  Karl T. Frederick, NRA President , 1938

https://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra_once_supported_gun_control/

 

[acidhead]

13 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

1871,if what I just read is correct.

"I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses." -  Karl T. Frederick, NRA President , 1938

https://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra_once_supported_gun_control/

 

Frederick served as president of the National Rifle Association and vice president of the US Revolver Association. He testified during hearings on the National Firearms Act in 1934, saying "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. I have when I felt it was desirable to do so for my own protection. I know that applies in most of the instances where guns are used effectively in self-defense or in places of business and in the home. I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses." Following discussion on the criminal element obtaining weapons, he said "I believe in regulatory methods. I think that makes it desirable that any such regulations imposed should not impose undue hardships on the law-abiding citizens and that they should not obstruct him in the right of self-defense, but that they should be directed exclusively, so far as possible, to suppressing the criminal use, or punishing the criminal use of weapons."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Frederick

[SHaYap]

The unavoidable fact of the matter is that more have died and many more will die unnecessarily from finger pointing than pointedly from the barrel end of the gun ...

[Myles]

12 hours ago, Agent0range said:

You also have to have insurance on a pool.  Call your homeowners insurance and tell them you are going to install a pool...see what happens.

It will cause your rates to go up.   There is nothing in place which forces you to notify your insurance though.  

[docyabut2]

The bill was passed to make the schools safe.

HAMILTON, OH (FOX19) -

More than 100 southwestern Ohio teachers will begin firearm training Monday morning in the wake of the deadly Florida mass shooting.

http://www.fox19.com/story/37586422/firearm-training-for-butler-county-teachers-starts-Monday

My state

Edited March 15, 2018 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

8 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

The bill was passed to make the schools safe.

HAMILTON, OH (FOX19) -

More than 100 southwestern Ohio teachers will begin firearm training Monday morning in the wake of the deadly Florida mass shooting.

http://www.fox19.com/story/37586422/firearm-training-for-butler-county-teachers-starts-Monday

My state

To add there are so many kids threating schools. What s in their minds that want to kill so many kids?  One 15 year old girl in my community was arrested for threating and will be jailed a long time.  The schools were closed,from the threats. Will kids quit the threats if they know they could be shot ?   

[Farmer77]

40 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

The bill was passed to make the schools safe.

HAMILTON, OH (FOX19) -

More than 100 southwestern Ohio teachers will begin firearm training Monday morning in the wake of the deadly Florida mass shooting.

http://www.fox19.com/story/37586422/firearm-training-for-butler-county-teachers-starts-Monday

My state

I don't think I'm a fan of the whole armed teacher thing.

You never know how someone is going to react in an emergency situation and there's always the accident factor. We've had a couple of incidents just the last week or so. 

School Teacher’s Gun Goes Off In Class, One Student Injured

 

[+OverSword]

14 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Sorry.... WHAT?!

Yup. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

11 hours ago, susieice said:

11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 I would think that doctors already had to report them. Maybe, there's more to that I don't know. 

 

Because of laws like HIPAA, doctors walk a thin line regarding patient confidentiality. The Air Force didn't report the Texas Church shooter. The FBI didn't act on several reports about Cruz, who incidently was formally charged in court today and facing the death penalty. Stop playing around like this. When the signs are there, act!!!

Yeah, I should have been aware of that.I believe, being a bit familiar with HIPAA laws and such. (Well as familiar as I myself can be)  And unfortunately, from my experiences of a military wife, I feel that gets dicey. I agree with you, when the signs are there, something should be done. 

11 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Basically just like most generations the newest generation rebels against the one above them and they decided to become conservative.

I wouldn't be surprised, I have always noticed that society tends to have that pendulum effect. I wouldn't be taken aback by either a liberal or conservative outlook, no matter the generation. Yes, I'm a liberal, ( I think to a point ) but I do feel all parties have something to offer and to guide, at the same time there being negative points there too. Who will they vote for, I would think, would depend on the nominee, no matter their party. For me, I am hoping that what ever party addresses the subjects that are in desperate need of addressing. I would assume, the safety of the public is a priority. 

3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

To add there are so many kids threating schools. What s in their minds that want to kill so many kids?  One 15 year old girl in my community was arrested for threating and will be jailed a long time.  The schools were closed,from the threats. Will kids quit the threats if they know they could be shot ?   

I don't think they think that. I feel that way, because of those who end up killing themselves in the end. I think they do it for the infamy. I could be wrong, but as having this discussions with various people outside of the net, this seems to be the assumption. 

 

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Where are you getting I want to abolish the second amendment? 

I think this walkout is more than just calling attention to gun violence. And yes, looking at some of legalities of who can legally get guns, when they shouldn't get guns. 

I understand you wishing to keep your rights, I don't blame you. But, I do think I have made it known, that there is more to what needs to be addressed, not just attention to gun violence. 

 

I never said you wanted to abolish the second amendment.  Can you say the same about the reactionary children who skipped school?

 

11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You would say this to 5 and 6 year olds?

I don't think 5 and 6 year olds walked out of class.

[aztek]

let say we remove second, then precedent is already set to remove any other. and even if 2nd is removed, and cops go door to door to take registered guns, what do you think is gonna happen? i doubt there will be uprising, people will give up guns cops know about and keep\get guns cops do not know about, guns they can't take. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Where are you getting I want to abolish the second amendment? 

I think this walkout is more than just calling attention to gun violence. And yes, looking at some of legalities of who can legally get guns, when they shouldn't get guns. 

I understand you wishing to keep your rights, I don't blame you. But, I do think I have made it known, that there is more to what needs to be addressed, not just attention to gun violence. 

 

I never said you wanted to abolish the second amendment.  

Well, I kind felt you did by this quote: 

Quote

15 hours ago, OverSword said:

  16 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I'm trying to understand your point about 'if you owned a gun and then prying it from your cold dead fingers'.

I mean that I support the second amendment wholeheartedly with every fiber of my being and believe that if you abolish the second amendment you have effectively abolished my country. 

Saying this as a generalization would have been understood differently if it was said, they or when. 

 

Quote

Can you say the same about the reactionary children who skipped school?

Can you show where they want to abolish the second amendment? In fact, while I had CNN on yesterday, they did an interview with one student, who I believe organized this, Same Craig, I think his name was, and I saw him say (If I remember him saying that correctly) that he believes in the second amendment and understands the reason for it. Though, he feels certain guns and certain things needing addressing is about their reason in getting them legally and that it's a problem when students have to fear for their lives. 

I tried finding a video even yesterday, to post here, but I couldn't find one to do so. 

Frankly, in my feeling, telling them to have a backbone to go into schools to possibly face the chances of school shootings, is like telling someone to have a backbone and just dive in shark infested waters. 

10 minutes ago, OverSword said:

11 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You would say this to 5 and 6 year olds?

I don't think 5 and 6 year olds walked out of class.

As I have been honest about, is that sometimes I have a hard time understanding at first, (with certain situations). It might be me, but sometimes I have a hard time understanding at first what you mean in certain posts. I wouldn't think anyone would say that to 5 or 6 year olds, Though, I still feel, we all need to do more for teenagers who fear and deal with this now, than just telling them to get a backbone. 

Does this mean, we should just be complacent? 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

3 minutes ago, aztek said:

let say we remove second, then precedent is already set to remove any other. and even if 2nd is removed, and cops go door to door to take registered guns, what do you think is gonna happen? i doubt there will be uprising, people will give up guns cops know about and keep\get guns cops do not know about, guns they can't take. 

Who are you saying, wants to remove it? 

 

[+OverSword]

Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, I kind felt you did by this quote: 

Saying this as a generalization would have been understood differently if it was said, they or when.

Sorry for the confusion, Perhaps if I changed it to:

I mean that I support the second amendment wholeheartedly with every fiber of my being and believe that if one  abolishes the second amendment one has effectively abolished my country.