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pallidin

Massive student walk-out

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ExpandMyMind
15 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

There is going to be some small left wing group in these students that believe in what they are doing but pretending that all of them do also has absolutely no backing.  I am willing to bet most of those students have no real idea about why they are marching but instead see it as a way to get on the news and get out of classes for a day.

I suspect pretty much all of them would have an opinion one way or the other. Some might just feel more strongly than others. 

And of course there will be those who take advantage of time off school. But that doesn't mean they do not also care about the subject. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Also, I'm pretty sure that every one of them will know what they're protesting and why, unless they live in some sort of bubble.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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aztek
Just now, Aquila King said:

I can't see anything as true that has no evidence or rational argument to back it up.

 

and that is your own problem, you do not see evidence you do not like, you argue proof that contradicts your opinion,  this thread  clearly shows that, it really discourages to have any rational argument with you

Edited by aztek

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Stubbly_Dooright
14 minutes ago, aztek said:
17 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I don't. As there are reputable channels and sites, there are non-reputable ones too. One really need to have a step back outlook in it all. One example, my husband was asked to do an interview for a new's source for something, and though seeing the end result of the televised interview, my husband pointed out that one answer he gave, to a question that was presented on the tv article, wasn't entirely in the order or said in the way that was presented. He told me, they asked a different type question, that had him answer in the way that he answered. It was just how it got edited to show him answering something, that really isn't what he meant. 

so reality you see with your own eyes, or  a video from a real event, is not enough for you  to believe, you need outside sources to confirm what you see?

The example with my hubby, is why I don't believe right away a source. But, I'm using this as an argument in why one can't jump on thing right away. And yes, I like to view varying sources, to get informed for my benefit. 

The thing is, if you're stating a fact, the fact needs source or sources. Unless, of course, this is all based on your opinion, and you want to say it as that. And even that, opinions different and for different reasons. 

17 minutes ago, Myles said:
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I personally think the schools that are punishing truancy, is not helping. (Remember, this is my personal opinion) In one sense, I can see the conundrum on dealing with their students and discipline, but this act is showing how people mean business. 
I'm not knocking your schools showing respect for the victims. I think, as well, that's great. And I'm glad they're doing that. But the walk out, is showing how a message is trying to get through, the way I see it. From the various new's outlets I have been reading and watching,even teachers are walking and parents want their children to do this.


I personally think that the schools should not punish those who participate in the walkout to show more to this message. 


 

It's a can of worm they don't want to open and I don't blame them.    If students are allowed to walkout for any reason they, or a political party or movement chooses, it is tough to go back.   If students decided to walk out in protest to illegal immigrants, should they be allowed.  If the right leaning groups facilitated it.

I think that is a good point. I could see that as a reason they don't do it. Thank you for the different point of view. :) 

16 minutes ago, The Narcisse said:
31 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I don't understand the pushback on half this stuff. Conservatives seem to feel so threatened by simply acknowledging that they or America in general has issues. I have no problems expressing my issues, it's the only way to fix them. It must stem from some form of insecurity or something.

The problem is that the protests/walk outs are meant to point out an issue that is usually a "leftist issue". If they were doing it to demand MORE guns and less laws the tables would be turned.

Though granted, the idea of more gun control is part of the thought here, I think the big issue is school safety. And that this coincides with the number of school shootings that have happened. My opinion, is that the safety of schools and beyond that, should be everyone's issue. 

 

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DarkHunter
1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

This isn't about whether a certain portion of students are just taking advantage of the situation to get out of class. This is about where did this movement originate from? Did it come from the minds of students who wanted to promote activism? Or did it originate entirely from the activism of certain left-wing groups. Your conspiracy theory here is that the idea was fully originated from certain left-wing groups, to which there is absolutely no basis for your claim.

Your argument is that this was a mass movement of students demanding change and their is equally no evidence of that either.  Almost certainly there was a small, probably very small, group of students that reached out for aid from a third party source with far more resources and orgizational ability.  More then likely the students who reached out were already a part of the women's March by their youth group empower.  To answer your question it originated from both as both are the same exact group.

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Aquila King
6 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes, however what i claimed here turned out to be truth, proven by multiple links, so i was right, my opinion and observations do reflect reality.  i see people were arguing my opinion as baseless, than after proof was posted they argue those articles. even thou it's clearly worded.  so what is the use?

if someone knows where to look there is water in a desert too, some see it some do not, 

It seems you're willfully ignoring the fact that I and others have already refuted those links as arguing backwards from the conclusion, all while acting as though you've triumphed in an argument because somebody else bothered to (try to) back up your claim.

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

and that is your own problem, you do not see evidence you do not like, you argue proof that contradicts your opinion,  this thread  clearly shows that, it really discourages to have any rational argument with you

And I suppose you've been told this same thing before numerous times in the past, and you think that by echoing it back at someone with yet again, absolutely no facts or rational basis to back it up, that this would somehow make it true.

Just a sad example of the pot calling the kettle black.

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The example with my hubby, is why I don't believe right away a source. But, I'm using this as an argument in why one can't jump on thing right away. And yes, I like to view varying sources, to get informed for my benefit. 

 

 

the example with your husband clearly shows how biased media works, and that is exactly why i do not trust them either,  i'm talking about personal observations,  and unedited videos from the event, whatever the event is,   i was not relying on any sources when i formed my opinion, i can just see myself, i went to school, my kids go to school, my friends kids go to school, so i do have an idea how things are in school. i see left side of the spectrum infringing on my rights under any pretense they can use. now i see school kids marching nationwide, with slogans that left uses,  so in my opinion those marches are organised by left wing, which was actually proven.

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aztek
Just now, Aquila King said:

It seems you're willfully ignoring the fact that I and others have already refuted those links a

It seems you're willfully ignoring the fact that you refutal does not chang reality, whether you believe it or not,.

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Stubbly_Dooright
10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

We live in a new time where outrage has become recreational.

This is just my outlook and opinion on this, so this could be something that is done. I just don't understand or wrap my head around how 'outrage' as being recreational. Having fun getting angry and showing it? I don't see it something I want to go do as a fun thing. :huh: 

I don't see the emotion of being angry at all the deaths as an act, but a response. 

11 minutes ago, aztek said:
15 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I'm not sure, if I'm understanding you correctly but...........................

You actually believe in that the world is flat? Please, correct me, if I'm misunderstanding you. 

 

But, that is all subjective. I don't think it matters how obvious you think it is, you should still do it, if you want to be taken seriously. Even if I don't believe in flat Earth based on varying sources and such, I have been in various high places to see the horizon to see how it would show me it's round. 

Who is to say that common knowledge is definitely common 100 percent? 

And though we all need water, sometimes one probably cannot see that living life long in a desert. Also, one can't use the example of water is wet, to proving one group is organizing something because of agenda. I think that not all things are not 'common knowledge' or 'obvious'. In fact, comparing the example of 'water is wet' to 'the left is behind the walkout because of their own agenda' is not a good comparison in my opinion. If there are those that don't believe you, well there must be a reason behind that. 

You know in the end, if you're not believed, then it's not on them, it's on you. They don't have to believe you. 

yes, however what i claimed here turned out to be truth, proven by multiple links, so i was right, my opinion and observations do reflect reality.  i see people were arguing my opinion as baseless, than after proof was posted they argue those articles. even thou it's clearly worded.  so what is the use?

if someone knows where to look there is water in a desert too, some see it some do not, 

I'm not sure if you're also saying yes, to my question of whether you believe in flat earth or not. 

Though, here's the thing, despite what happened for one thing to come out as true, (to what you claimed) that happened after the fact of what you claimed. Where all those links, your doing, or someone else? 

Opinion, though your right to have it, is not your right for someone else to believe it. 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

the example with your husband clearly shows how biased media works, and that is exactly why i do not trust them either,  i'm talking about personal observations,  and unedited videos from the event, whatever the event is,   i was not relying on any sources when i formed my opinion, i can just see myself, i went to school, my kids go to school, my friends kids go to school, so i do have an idea how things are in school. i see left side of the spectrum infringing on my rights under any pretense they can use. now i see school kids marching nationwide, with slogans that left uses,  so in my opinion those marches are organised by left wing, which was actually proven.

But you didn't prove it. Just because I see not all media outlets are honest in their reporting, doesn't mean that someone else's opinion, with no sources, I should believe. In fact, that would be more on the person to show in many ways why their opinion should be seen as fact. 

If you want to put it in your opinion, and you say so, that's great. I'm not going to refute someone else's opinion, if that is what they feel and believe. It's when that opinion is being pushed onto someone else, when they have a different reason to believe against it. 

I respect your opinion. 

I do not respect your lack of source or proof fact. 

 

 

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

I'm not sure if you're also saying yes, to my question of whether you believe in flat earth or not. 

Though, here's the thing, despite what happened for one thing to come out as true, (to what you claimed) that happened after the fact of what you claimed. Where all those links, your doing, or someone else? 

lol, no i do not believe earth is flat, that is why i think it's ridiculous to even need to prove that, same thing with others obvious things.

yes that happened after the fact, someone else showed proof,  that proof did not form my opinion,  did not need to it's just as obvious as round earth

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

But you didn't prove it.

 

so? i was right whether i showed proof or anyone else, makes 0 difference. if you tell me 12x12 =144 without showing me the math behind it, you are still right even if someone else shows that proof

Edited by aztek

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Aquila King
4 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Your argument is that this was a mass movement of students demanding change and their is equally no evidence of that either. 

Bull****. All you have to do is listen to the students and ask them why they're marching. They'll all overwhelmingly tell you why they're doing what they're doing. They've said so numerous times before.

To suspect any ulterior motives requires evidence to support the claim, to which you have none. You're just shifting the burden of proof here. It's not my job to prove to you that they're not lying and there's no conspiracy, it's your job to prove that they are lying and that there is a conspiracy.

Back up your claim, otherwise all we can do is take them at their word.

10 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Almost certainly there was a small, probably very small, group of students that reached out for aid from a third party source with far more resources and orgizational ability.  More then likely the students who reached out were already a part of the women's March by their youth group empower.  To answer your question it originated from both as both are the same exact group.

Okay, so now we're back peddling. First it was the groups, now it's both. Which is it?

Is it so damn inconceivable to you that masses of students would actually be doing this because they genuinely want something to be done in opposition to one of your political opinions? Why don't you look out at Trump rallies and say that "just a small number of them actually support Trump, the rest were placed there by the Trump campaign".

I mean this is just ridiculous. You're simply looking out into a crowd of political opposition and saying "there can't be that many people who actually oppose my beliefs, it's a conspiracy!"

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Aquila King
9 minutes ago, aztek said:

It seems you're willfully ignoring the fact that you refutal does not chang reality, whether you believe it or not,.

You're not saying anything here ^

And you continue to refuse to back up a word you've said thus far.

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aztek
Just now, Aquila King said:

Bull****. All you have to do is listen to the students and ask them why they're marching

based on what?? some videos? why should we believe them? maybe they were edited and kids were told what to say, as it happened before during Interviews do you have a solid proof?

Edited by aztek

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aztek
Just now, Aquila King said:

You're not saying anything here ^

And you continue to refuse to back up a word you've said thus far.

lmao, it was already proven that i was right and you were wrong,  get over it, it is done.

Edited by aztek

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Stubbly_Dooright
Just now, aztek said:
7 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

I'm not sure if you're also saying yes, to my question of whether you believe in flat earth or not. 

Though, here's the thing, despite what happened for one thing to come out as true, (to what you claimed) that happened after the fact of what you claimed. Where all those links, your doing, or someone else? 

lol, no i do not believe earth is flat, that is why i think it's ridiculous to even need to prove that, same thing with others obvious things.

Well, that's a relief. I didn't think you did. It must be how I read your post. 

And yes, you would think you wouldn't need to prove that, because of the obviousness that you and I believe, 

We still have groups and people such as this and this!  If it's so obvious, how come it's not obvious to them? 

Quote

yes that happened after the fact, someone else showed proof,  that proof did not form my opinion,  did not need to it's just as obvious as round earth

But I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about someone else forming the opinion from your's. If you want to have your opinion shared, waiting for someone else to prove it for you for someone else, is not the right way to do it. 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 minutes ago, aztek said:
8 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

But you didn't prove it.

 

so? i was right whether i showed proof or anyone else, makes 0 difference. if you tell me 12x12 =144 without showing me the math behind it, you are still right even if someone else shows that proof

Who proved it, is the person I would respect with it being fact. Look at it this way, if you wanted it to be believed as fact sooner, and through you, you posting sources to prove it would have done so sooner, right? 

 

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

But I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about someone else forming the opinion from your's. If you want to have your opinion shared, waiting for someone else to prove it for you for someone else, is not the right way to do it. 

 

normally yes,  if my opinion was about something little known, than yes, but in this case it was pretty clear and obvious, and everyone has an opinion on that. and tons of facts are out there. 

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, aztek said:

based on what?? some videos? why should we believe them?

Why should we not? You conveniently left out the part of that post that explained exactly why your skepticism is unwarranted. I'll quote it for you since again, you either willfully ignored it or didn't understand:

6 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

To suspect any ulterior motives requires evidence to support the claim, to which you have none. You're just shifting the burden of proof here. It's not my job to prove to you that they're not lying and there's no conspiracy, it's your job to prove that they are lying and that there is a conspiracy.

This is how logic works:

If someone says "We're going to do (insert specific activism here) for (insert political issue here), and then they go do it, why not take them at their word? What basis do you have to claim that they aren't doing what they're doing because of what they said?

I'm not saying that a conspiracy here isn't possible, I'm saying that there's no evidence of it. And until evidence of ulterior motives is presented, there's no logical reason to suggest that they're doing anything otherwise.

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Stubbly_Dooright
Just now, aztek said:
3 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

But I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about someone else forming the opinion from your's. If you want to have your opinion shared, waiting for someone else to prove it for you for someone else, is not the right way to do it. 

 

normally yes,  if my opinion was about something little known, than yes, but in this case it was pretty clear and obvious, and everyone has an opinion on that. and tons of facts are out there. 

Well, you're just gambling on that when you relying on someone else or other things that you think is 'obvious'. Again, one doesn't have to believe you, if there isn't a good reason to do so. I don't see, waiting for someone else to prove it or that it's assumed it's obvious, as being something to back you up. That's a gamble. 

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Aquila King
7 minutes ago, aztek said:

lmao, it was already proven that i was right and you were wrong,  what else do you want?

A dude posted links that (I already explained in detail on here numerous times) prove nothing.

You really feel high and mighty about someone else's work of supposedly 'backing things up' don't you?

Do you not realize that I've already refuted that guy's argument, or do you just not care?

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Who proved it, is the person I would respect with it being fact. Look at it this way, if you wanted it to be believed as fact sooner, and through you, you posting sources to prove it would have done so sooner, right? 

 

in this particular case, the issue is too well known. to ask for proof, it's on every news site literally. 

 another thing that frankly is a peeve pet of mine, if I think someone  is saying nonsense, it would take me less time to find something that proves him wrong, by googling, than keep asking for proof, it would be less typing too. 

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, you're just gambling on that when you relying on someone else or other things that you think is 'obvious'. 

well it is not really a gamble when you playing with open cards. when i do play with open cards, as i did here,  i'm 100% sure.

Edited by aztek

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aztek
Just now, Aquila King said:

A dude posted links that (I already explained in detail on here numerous times) prove nothing.

 

sorry but your explanation is dismissed as inadequate, conformation bias is shining here

Edited by aztek

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 minute ago, aztek said:
11 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Who proved it, is the person I would respect with it being fact. Look at it this way, if you wanted it to be believed as fact sooner, and through you, you posting sources to prove it would have done so sooner, right? 

 

in this particular case, the issue is too well known. to ask for proof, it's on every news site literally. 

Well, that's assuming. And if you're talking about assuming that today's walkout is a 'left agenda goal' and that they organized it, I don't see it. I have been watching the various new's channels and reading the new's sites, and if it's so obvious, where is it being shown that? Because I don't seeing such groups fessing up. Even if I'm the only one that doesn't see it, or see 'the obvious part of it', if you want me to believe you, then I would think you would have the consideration to show me why you think it's obvious. 

Quote

another thing that frankly is a peeve pet of mine, if I think someone  is saying nonsense, it would take me less time to find something that proves him wrong, by googling, than keep asking for proof, it would be less typing too. 

Well, then I would think you should google or what ever to do that, to prove they are wrong. But, why should you have to do that? If you don't believe them, and you feel you have a right to not to, then you don't have to. It shouldn't be on you to prove or not to prove their point. It's on them. 

So, if you want your opinion or you see it as a fact, and you want to be believed (<------ I think that should be an important point) then getting sources and showing it, will help you. But, if you don't care if someone believes you, then don't do that, and don't feel bad if you're not believed. Do you care, if someone believes you? 

 

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