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pallidin

Massive student walk-out

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 minutes ago, aztek said:
16 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, you're just gambling on that when you relying on someone else or other things that you think is 'obvious'. 

well it is not really a gamble when you playing with open cards. when i do play with open cards, as i did here,  i'm 100% sure.

And my point and feeling is that, those open cards, might not be so open like you think. 

 

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

Well, then I would think you should google or what ever to do that, to prove they are wrong. But, why should you have to do that?

because there are many biased sources, one may present proof that is from biased source, and not everyone will accept it, so i'd rather find it my self from different places, from those i find credible and those i do not, and it's important to see what untrusted sources write. because as much as they try to misrepresent things, they still print some facts, i may not like what they write about in their opinion, but small pieces of truth are always there,  

but usually liberal media will make loud slogan that is absolute false,  like "15 reasons why trump will not be the president".. i love those articles, you know right away reality is opposite

Edited by aztek

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DarkHunter
3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Bull****. All you have to do is listen to the students and ask them why they're marching. They'll all overwhelmingly tell you why they're doing what they're doing. They've said so numerous times before.

To suspect any ulterior motives requires evidence to support the claim, to which you have none. You're just shifting the burden of proof here. It's not my job to prove to you that they're not lying and there's no conspiracy, it's your job to prove that they are lying and that there is a conspiracy.

Back up your claim, otherwise all we can do is take them at their word.

Okay, so now we're back peddling. First it was the groups, now it's both. Which is it?

Is it so damn inconceivable to you that masses of students would actually be doing this because they genuinely want something to be done in opposition to one of your political opinions? Why don't you look out at Trump rallies and say that "just a small number of them actually support Trump, the rest were placed there by the Trump campaign".

I mean this is just ridiculous. You're simply looking out into a crowd of political opposition and saying "there can't be that many people who actually oppose my beliefs, it's a conspiracy!"

Can't tell if you are just letting emotion take over your thinking ability or if you are purposefully being obtuse.

Of course if you asked a student what the march is about they can tell you what it is on a superficial level, anyone who isn't a complete idiot could do that.  The problem is do they actually know why they are marching and what they are hoping to achieve.  What percentage could actually tell you what policy change they want and why it's important beyond, cause I'm almost certain 75% couldnt answer anything beyond essentially school shootings are bad.

I'm not shifting any burden of proof.  You started with the unsubstantiated claim that this was an organic mass movement of students.  It has been proven that this wasn't organic as they had outside help, besides from already being proven wrong, the only part really left up to debate is just how wide spread this march is compared to those who just want out of class and be on the news and neither side has the evidence to prove they are right even though you like to pretend that you are right, which is funny since you were proved wrong right at the start. 

Hate to break it to you but most rallies and marches generally have a small core of real followers and the majority being made up of people who are just there for the excitement, but nice try at trying to turn it around even if it was a pathetic attempt.

I am not back peddling but it seems you have some reading comprehension issues.  To word it differently the ones almost certainly behind this march was a small group of activist students, being in school still they are students and being part of empower makes them political activist.  As it should be easy to see the answer is both since they are the same in this case.

Lastly the issue with taking them at their word is we don't know if it's the word of the whole or the word of the activist minority, given the media it's probably the activist minority since they cause better ratings and create a more interesting narative.

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OverSword
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Think about this , just off the top of my head  kids today know that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was fake -even if they cant name the incident they have read about it, kids today know that marijuana isn't going to make you lose your mind and kill your neighbors, kids today know that the pharmaceutical companies in America charge exorbitant amounts of money compared to other nations, kids today know that all politicians are owned by corporations, hell most kids today know about 'operation northwoods' and how their government put a plan in place to kill civilians for political expediency.

Except for the marijuana part, I doubt this.

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Myles
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Yes.

I disagree.   Protest on their own time, not the schools unless you are willing to accept the punishment.

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aztek
Just now, OverSword said:

Except for the marijuana part, I doubt this.

#me too

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South Alabam
3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Today marks the 22nd anniversary of the Dunblane Massacre that happened not 10 miles from my current house. Our government quickly introduced the Firearms Amendment Act as a response - the result of which is undeniable - so it pains and disgusts me that many Americans care more about their guns than the safety of their children.

It's a form of collective madness if you ask me.

The NRA is 4.5 million members. Private ownership is estimated at 45-55 million here in the U.S. You cannot truly claim many Americans care more about their guns when one group is fighting any gun legislation at all. I would like to find a good answer that maybe consists of many solutions. The NRA fears that when any kind of legislation is enacted to put Americans with weapons on a national data, that the government would now know all the gun owners and come take them all away. And under certain leadership, that could be a possibility.

Considering Almost everyone who is commissioned, appointed, or elected swears to uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign, or domestic,  If they tried to enact banning all weapons, they would become the enemy, as the second amendment is an amendment to the Constitution, and they are not upholding their oath.

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Myles
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

This is just my outlook and opinion on this, so this could be something that is done. I just don't understand or wrap my head around how 'outrage' as being recreational. Having fun getting angry and showing it? I don't see it something I want to go do as a fun thing. :huh: 

 

 

I think it is a recreational type of thing.   Protesting is the "IN" thing to do at this time.   There is a small percentage that are doing it for the right reasons, but most are just going along for the ride and for something to do.   I don't think it sounds fun either.  

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Stubbly_Dooright
12 minutes ago, aztek said:
22 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

Well, then I would think you should google or what ever to do that, to prove they are wrong. But, why should you have to do that?

because there are many biased sources, one may present proof that is from biased source, and not everyone will accept it, so i'd rather find it my self from different places, from those i find credible and those i do not, and it's important to see what untrusted sources write. because as much as they try to misrepresent things, they still print some facts, i may not like what they write about in their opinion, but small pieces of truth are always there,  

Let's put the rest of my quote there, ok?

Quote

Well, then I would think you should google or what ever to do that, to prove they are wrong. But, why should you have to do that? If you don't believe them, and you feel you have a right to not to, then you don't have to. It shouldn't be on you to prove or not to prove their point. It's on them. 

So, if you want your opinion or you see it as a fact, and you want to be believed (<------ I think that should be an important point) then getting sources and showing it, will help you. But, if you don't care if someone believes you, then don't do that, and don't feel bad if you're not believed. Do you care, if someone believes you? 

Yes, we both have pointed that out, about the many variations of sites and new's sources that could possibly be wrong. Not all of them. But, the point here, I'm trying to show, is how one wants someone else to believe them. Whether sources are mostly false or not, your point, you want to see as fact, you would show as to how you see it as fact. Just as someone else would show how they see their fact as fact for you. 

I'm going to assume, when something is said, it's desire is to be believed. You can't force belief, belief comes from a reason (like proof of facts) So, if you want to be believed, then it would be prudent to sort through all the sources and find and post many to back up your points. 

And if someone doesn't believe you, then at least you did the work. 

This all depends on how desirable you want your point to be believed as fact. 

How much do you want me to believe you that the walkout if driven by a 'left-agenda'? If you feel, a lot, then show me the reason to believe. 

If you don't care if I believe you or not, then why should you worry if I don't believe you or not. (I think it's important to reflect on this)

Quote

but usually liberal media will make loud slogan that is absolute false,  like "15 reasons why trump will not be the president".. i love those articles, you know right away reality is opposite

:no:  *sigh* 

Anyways, I don't believe you on what you saying over all in all this. I don't have to. 

 

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pallidin
3 hours ago, OverSword said:

What I'm talking about is that after this walk out, and nothing is changed, then there will be some simplistic teenagers that will start destroying property or fighting with the police. 

You're presuming that change is instantaneous.

Often, especially with regards to society, it is actually a painfully slow process.

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Myles
3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

 - so it pains and disgusts me that many Americans care more about their guns than the safety of their children.

It's a form of collective madness if you ask me.

So now you force me to bring up swimming pools again.   They are the cause of more children deaths than guns each year.  Are you for the banning of them too?   How many threads have you started in support of pool bans?    Do you care more about pools than guns?

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OverSword
Just now, pallidin said:

You're presuming that change is instantaneous.

Often, especially with regards to society, it is actually a painfully slow process.

Kids will presume that change must be instantaneous.  When it's not, fits will be thrown.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Except for the marijuana part, I doubt this.

I was able to spend some time working in restaurants a couple of years back and I was simply amazed at the level of awareness those kids had. 

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pallidin

The threat is defined, but the solutions are not clear... to a consensus.

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pallidin
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Kids will presume that change must be instantaneous.  When it's not, fits will be thrown.

That is a valid point.

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aztek
Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

. But, the point here, I'm trying to show, is how one wants someone else to believe them.

and i understand, but you have to understand one thing, some people here i care about (as much as you can about people you never met) some i do not, as you see with our conversation, you are one of those i do care and i will provide you with as much info as i can, and will have normal, reasonable conversation, others will dismiss anything i say regardless. so those people i could not care less if they believe me.

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Stubbly_Dooright
9 minutes ago, Myles said:
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

This is just my outlook and opinion on this, so this could be something that is done. I just don't understand or wrap my head around how 'outrage' as being recreational. Having fun getting angry and showing it? I don't see it something I want to go do as a fun thing. :huh: 

 

 

I think it is a recreational type of thing.   Protesting is the "IN" thing to do at this time.   There is a small percentage that are doing it for the right reasons, but most are just going along for the ride and for something to do.   I don't think it sounds fun either.  

Well, I'm curious how you think it is. I don't see it, so I think that it's not on that level you think it is. We both could be wrong, though. 

It just doesn't sound logical to me to be 'angry' in a recreational way. 

 

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aztek
Just now, Farmer77 said:

I was able to spend some time working in restaurants a couple of years back and I was simply amazed at the level of awareness those kids had. 

and i have seen such kids too, but i have seen a lot more deadwood,

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OverSword
Just now, Farmer77 said:

I was able to spend some time working in restaurants a couple of years back and I was simply amazed at the level of awareness those kids had. 

And I am flabbergasted at the lack of awareness of my friends kids.  They don't read, they don't play instruments, they don't don't have good grammar, They are great at basketball, watching ESPN and eating.

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 minutes ago, aztek said:
6 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

. But, the point here, I'm trying to show, is how one wants someone else to believe them.

and i understand, but you have to understand one thing, some people here i care about (as much as you can about people you never met) some i do not, as you see with our conversation, you are one of those i do care and i will provide you with as much info as i can, and will have normal, reasonable conversation, others will dismiss anything i say regardless. so those people i could not care less if they believe me.

I like this post. Because, I believe in having a conversation, despite opposite points, to stay at the level of showing reasons to why and being open to what the other says. 

(and............ shucks............... you make me :blush:  thanks )

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
Just now, OverSword said:
5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I was able to spend some time working in restaurants a couple of years back and I was simply amazed at the level of awareness those kids had. 

And I am flabbergasted at the lack of awareness of my friends kids.  They don't read, they don't play instruments, they don't don't have good grammar, They are great at basketball, watching ESPN and eating.

My kids have friends, in where I have had some wonderful intelligent conversations. There are all kinds in all groups. 

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aztek
Just now, OverSword said:

And I am flabbergasted at the lack of awareness of my friends kids. 

 what today's kids care about are not what we cared about when we were their age. now virtual world of social media seem more important and real to them then reality. they kill themselves over  others bad posts,  literaly

Edited by aztek
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Stubbly_Dooright

You know, if anything, this thread and the topic that the thread was started for, if anything, when there is a message to be heard, however needing to be heard, it shouldn't be looked upon as one sided. All should be heard. 

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pallidin

These killing scenarios are odd, and "special"

As opposed to some disgruntled person shooting an adversary, these killers specifically target complete innocents as some sort of "statement"

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pallidin

For them, it seems not to be individual death, rather the totality of carnage.

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