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Dark_Grey

Obama Removed 500,000 Fugitives from NICS

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Dark_Grey

Now this one is a whopper to wrap your head around.

Obama DOJ Ordered 500,000 Fugitives Deleted From Background Check Database

Zerohedge
WashPo Source

Quote

The Obama administration ordered the removal of over 500,000 fugitives with outstanding arrest warrants from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) in late 2016, according to testimony from Acting FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich.

Bowdich confirmed a November report from the Washington Post which set the figure at "tens of thousands," after Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) asked him if more than 500,000 names were dropped from the database. 

The FBI purged the names from the database after the Justice Department changed its legal interpretation of “fugitive from justice” to say it pertains only to wanted people who have crossed state lines.

What that means is that those fugitives who were previously prohibited under federal law from purchasing firearms can now buy them, unless barred for other reasons. -WaPo

“That was a decision that was made under the previous administration,” Bowdich testified.

“It was the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel that reviewed the law and believed that it needed to be interpreted so that if someone was a fugitive in a state, there had to be indications that they had crossed state lines,” said Bowdich. “Otherwise they were not known to be a fugitive under the law in the way it was interpreted.

Let's break this down in to bite-sized morsels:

Quote

While the FBI had a broad definition of "fugitive," meaning anyone with an outstanding arrest warrant, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) definition narrowed the definition to anyone with a warrant who has crossed state lines. The DOJ Inspector General, Michael Horowitz, urged the Justice Department to address the disagreement in terms "as soon as possible." 

If you have not crossed state lines, you no longer classify as a fugitive according to the Obama Admin's new definition. Two important notes here:

1) The definition was only changed in late 2016 - the timing is important as the DOJ Office of Legal Counsel went with the ATF definition shortly before President Trump took office...
2) By changing the definition of "fugitive", the Obama Admin effectively removed a half million people from the FBI's background check system. This system applies to gun ownership which means

Quote

those fugitives who were previously prohibited under federal law from purchasing firearms can now buy them, unless barred for other reasons.

I have been trying to find a Liberal silver lining here and give Oby the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they changed the definition of "fugitive" because too many people carried that label without proper conviction? 

From the WashPo:

Quote

The interpretation of who is a “fugitive from justice,” a category that disqualifies people from buying a gun, has long been a matter of debate in law enforcement circles — a dispute that ultimately led to the February purging of the database.

On one hand, they want to make it as hard as possible for people to buy a gun and rightly so. On the other hand, they are exonerating criminals and making them legible for gun ownership again? How does that fit the Liberal narrative?

If some Dem supporters could chime in and offer their perspective, we can get a good discussion going. The timing of this small but impactful change is very suspect, IMO. Interesting that they went with the ATF's definition over the FBI..

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aztek

it's like they doing it on purpose making a case for repealing 2nd amendment. 

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Farmer77

 

52 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

On one hand, they want to make it as hard as possible for people to buy a gun and rightly so. On the other hand, they are exonerating criminals and making them legible for gun ownership again? How does that fit the Liberal narrative?

 

Just to play devils advocate. Didn't changing the legal definition of fugitive also mean that your 2nd amendment rights couldn't be violated based on a single police report?

Or that our second amendment rights couldn't be removed for say outstanding parking tickets? I'd be curious how many of those half million fugitives were really wanted on small violations like that.  

 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
Just now, Farmer77 said:

 

 

Just to play devils advocate. Didn't changing the legal definition of fugitive also mean that your 2nd amendment rights couldn't be violated based on a single police report?

Or that our second amendment rights couldn't be removed for say outstanding parking tickets? I'd be curious how many of those half million fugitives were really wanted on small violations like that.  

 

it could be the case in some cases, but article (from wapo no less) says they were already prohibited to buy guns, so it was not over missed traffic ticket court date.  btw even with arrest record like that, you still can get a gun, even in nyc,  to be banned from buying a gun you need a felony conviction,  not just an arrest. 

and no it absolutely was not over parking tickets ,  there is no name on them, even in rare cases where you have to sign them , it is not a criminal offence. 

Edited by aztek
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Agent0range

You can't really "remove a name" from NICS...as EVERYONE'S name is in NICS.  You can remove a certain designation, but it would still show that they had a warrant out for their arrest.  

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Dark_Grey
2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

You can't really "remove a name" from NICS...as EVERYONE'S name is in NICS.  You can remove a certain designation, but it would still show that they had a warrant out for their arrest.  

That's an important distinction. The fugitives are still fugitives, all that's changed is their ability to buy a firearm. That, plus the timing, makes this feel even more shady and deliberate.

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Agent0range
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

That's an important distinction. The fugitives are still fugitives, all that's changed is their ability to buy a firearm. That, plus the timing, makes this feel even more shady and deliberate.

Not shady and deliberate at all.  NICS is a federal database, and is meant to be used by Federal law enforcement.  It was not at all set up to be used by gun dealers.  It's just a tool in place of the federal background checks that people push for, and the NRA is against.  The way it was, if someone failed to appear for a parking ticket at county court, they were labeled a "fugitive from justice" while not in federal jurisdiction, hence the "crossing state lines" stipulations, because that is when it becomes Federal jurisdiction.  Do you think someone who failed to appear for a parking ticket should not be allowed to purchase a weapon?  I don't.

Edited by Agent0range
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aztek
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Not shady and deliberate at all.  NICS is a federal database, and is meant to be used by Federal law enforcement.  It was not at all set up to be used by gun dealers.  

lmao, bull,  that is exactly what it's used for, for gun dealers to call in.  who else is running background check besides gun dealers? hardly anyone, it's a system for a backgroud check, with public access, so yea it was designed for gun dealers

your anti NRA propaganda noticed, lol

btw article says removed, so should i believe you or the article, hm, ....definitely not you

Edited by aztek
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Farmer77

The conversation about he NICS got me curious so I looked them up and I'm having trouble with this from the NICS website:

 

Quote

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia.

So how do FFL's in the other 20 states run background checks? 

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aztek
Posted (edited)

well they said 30 states get full services, other 20 may get limited service, or basic service,  i'm sure if 20 states did not require BC liberals would put it on every billboard on every highway, and we'd hear it constantly

Edited by aztek

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Agent0range
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aztek said:

lmao, bull,  that is exactly what it's used for, for gun dealers to call in.  who else is running background check besides gun dealers? hardly anyone, it's a system for a backgroud check, with public access, so yea it was designed for gun dealers

your anti NRA propaganda noticed, lol

btw article says removed, so should i believe you or the article, hm, ....definitely not you

It was not created for gun dealers.  It was created for use by Federal Law Enforcement.  Again, why should someone be labeled a fugitive from justice for missing a court hearing for a parking ticket?  You talk about my "anti NRA propaganda" when I'm the one saying that parking ticket guy shouldn't be barred from buying a weapon....that's interesting.  

Edited by Agent0range
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aztek
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

 Again, why should someone be labeled a fugitive from justice for missing a court hearing for a parking ticket? 

really ? doesn't federal officer know that parking tickets do not require hearings or courts, it is not a criminal offence, worst case car is towed, and if they were fugitives in a first place, it could have not be over  a parking ticket,  but than again federal officer prbly knows,,,, and he would prbly argue sooner about crossing state lines, than parking tickets which never mentioned in the article.,

you always bring relevant points, bravo

Edited by aztek

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Agent0range
7 minutes ago, aztek said:

really ? doesn't federal officer know that parking tickets do not require hearings or courts, it is not a criminal offence, worst case car is towed, and if they were fugitives in a first place, it could have not be over  a parking ticket,  but than again federal officer prbly knows,,,, and he would prbly argue sooner about crossing state lines, than parking tickets which never mentioned in the article.,

you always bring relevant points, bravo

Parking ticket was just an example.  It could be any minor offense.  Speeding ticket?  Open container?  Pick one.  State crimes do not equal a federal fugitive from justice.  States have their own databases for that.

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aztek
2 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Parking ticket was just an example.  It could be any minor offense.  Speeding ticket?  Open container?  Pick one.  State crimes do not equal a federal fugitive from justice.  States have their own databases for that.

right, afaik fugitive means  someone who missed a court date, and warrant for arrest was issued,  it could have been over speeding ticket or a rape or murder, yes those are often let out on bail. are you telling me they went case by case thru all fugitives on the list (btw how many are there at any given moment?) and picked half a million of minor offences?? yea i believe that, lol, obama administration track record suggests other wise, from how they vetted daca kids, to FF and Obamacare. basically i'm saying i do not believe that for a second, 

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Paranormal Panther

I thought that a fugitive was a fugitive was a fugitive. What real difference does it make if they're classified as a federal fugitive or a state fugitive? It's not like a state fugitive can't cross state lines, which would put them in the database since they're now a federal fugitive. This makes no sense.

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Agent0range
4 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I thought that a fugitive was a fugitive was a fugitive. What real difference does it make if they're classified as a federal fugitive or a state fugitive? It's not like a state fugitive can't cross state lines, which would put them in the database since they're now a federal fugitive. This makes no sense.

Jurisdiction.  The NICS system is not mutually exclusive to gun dealers, as Aztek seems to think.  It is a Federal database meant to be used by Federal law enforcement.  If someone skipped a county court hearing, that person should not be flagged in NICS, as it is outside of the jurisdiction of federal law enforcement.  I truly don't see how people don't understand this.  

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Gromdor
11 hours ago, aztek said:

really ? doesn't federal officer know that parking tickets do not require hearings or courts, it is not a criminal offence, worst case car is towed, and if they were fugitives in a first place, it could have not be over  a parking ticket,  but than again federal officer prbly knows,,,, and he would prbly argue sooner about crossing state lines, than parking tickets which never mentioned in the article.,

you always bring relevant points, bravo

College friend of mine liked to park in campus town everyday and pitched the tickets.  They ended up hauling him away in zip ties (he was fat) on a bench warrant for his 117+ parking violations.  In theory he could have run away to Nebraska or something and became a fugitive over it. 

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Jurisdiction.  The NICS system is not mutually exclusive to gun dealers, as Aztek seems to think.  It is a Federal database meant to be used by Federal law enforcement.  If someone skipped a county court hearing, that person should not be flagged in NICS, as it is outside of the jurisdiction of federal law enforcement.  I truly don't see how people don't understand this.  

That's lame. There should be one federal database for all fugitives. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

College friend of mine liked to park in campus town everyday and pitched the tickets.  They ended up hauling him away in zip ties (he was fat) on a bench warrant for his 117+ parking violations.  In theory he could have run away to Nebraska or something and became a fugitive over it. 

strange things happen, thou i have a feeling somewhere between 10th and 30th ticket he got something in the mail he ignored, than ignored again, ....

Edited by aztek

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Gromdor
44 minutes ago, aztek said:

strange things happen, thou i have a feeling somewhere between 10th and 30th ticket he got something in the mail he ignored, than ignored again, ....

Our town is nice and sends a letter threatening jail/drivers license cancellation/towing after the first one. 

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