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StarMountainKid

Jesus' Enlightenment and Original Message

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StarMountainKid

When Jesus was baptised by John, he experienced a sudden awakening. He went into the desert alone to contend with the Devil, which was really his conditioned mind. Transcending this, he returned to life in society.

Of course, Jesus was ready for enlightenment. I would think he must have spent his previous years questioning himself and the religion and society in which he lived. He expressed his enlightenment in the only way he knew, through the religious and spiritual life of Judiasm. 

The Buddha also expressed himself through the religion he knew, through Hinduism, although discarding its religious aspects. The New Testiment, being an somewhat unreliable account of Jesus' true life, I think Jesus was "a man awake" as the Buddha was, and if you met Jesus in person, he would be quite different in many ways than the Gospels describe him.

No one knows, of course, Jesus' original teachings, as the Buddha's original teachings are also lost to history. We only can glimpse fragments or an ambiance of their personalities and message, passed down through early memories, mostly oral, by their desciples and followers. 

So, as I say, I believe if we could meet Jesus or the Buddha, they would be different in person than we would expect them to be. Jesus, especially, because, after all, Jesus was not a Christian, and had no desire to found a new religion separate from Judiasm. 

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

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Will Due
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

 

Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Paul's beliefs about the original and true teachings of Jesus.

The religion that Jesus taught is not Christianity. It's something quite different. 

What Jesus taught originally is true religion, which was lost for two thousand years temporarily but eventually, it will become known by everyone in our world as well as anything can be known, if such a personal desire to know exists. But the knowledge of this religion that Jesus taught before the Christian religion existed, is available to know now.

I know what it is and so can anyone. But it will take a certain level of faith to go where it can be gotten. But I assure you, the original teachings of Jesus are here, and I can show you where to find them, eventhough I have repeatedly done so already in this forum since I became a member. But few, if any, have believed me that where it is and what it is, is true. But I'll keep trying to connect those who are seeking for Jesus' original teachings with the place where these teachings exist in the world today.

If you're not aware of what I have said about this in some of the other threads where I've posted about it, let me know, and I'll tell you where to find it.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Guyver
1 hour ago, StarMountainKid said:

When Jesus was baptised by John, he experienced a sudden awakening. He went into the desert alone to contend with the Devil, which was really his conditioned mind. Transcending this, he returned to life in society.

Of course, Jesus was ready for enlightenment. I would think he must have spent his previous years questioning himself and the religion and society in which he lived. He expressed his enlightenment in the only way he knew, through the religious and spiritual life of Judiasm. 

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

Well, it’s just that the Bible is really the only record of Jesus we have.  You say that Jesus only knew the religion that he knew, but the Bible testifies that Jesus was God and knew all things.  So that makes him different than Buddha and would suggest he was already enlightened, yet the passage you mention of his baptism is in the gospel accounts.  

On your last question, my guess is no.

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Will Due
Posted (edited)

 

If Jesus is God like the Bible says he is, don't you think that he would see to it that his original teachings would be made available to study if you wanted to know them and apply them in your life?

I assure you that this has happened and if you want to know where they are, ask me, and I'll tell you where you can find them.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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JMPD1
32 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

 

I know what it is and so can anyone. But it will.take a certain level of faith to go where it can be gotten. 

 

 

Faith in what? And why is 'faith' a clear path to truth?

I can have faith that if I flap my arms fast enough I can fly. And as long as I don't try jumping off any tall structures, my faith, will be 'true'

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Will Due
47 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

Faith in what?

 

The place where I found the original message of Jesus, says that he originally taught that the only requirement for salvation, unlike what Paul taught, is faith (trust) that God is your Father, that you are his son or daughter and that all men and women are your brothers and sisters. And because of this, we will all be resurrected. 

That's the good news. Jesus' original message.

 

 

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StarMountainKid

It seems to me that one's concept of Jesus' original teaching comes down to one's opinion, as Jesus didn't write anything down, as far as I know. I think this is because it had already all been written down in what we call the Old Testament. Jesus preached what had already been said, or his interpretation of what already had been said.

Another interesting point is, what did Jesus think of himself to be? A reformer surely of the state of Judaism under Roman rule, a preacher of correct Judaism. On the other hand, one who has had a powerful religious awakening may consider himself a true spokesman for God, or God himself. 

Perhaps, at the time of Jesus' message having become a religion, the writers of the day may have embellished his story in a way to make Jesus at least a son of God. Unfortunately, Jesus wasn't alive to read, edit and correct the Gospels written about him.

I'm not trying to be anti-Christianity here, I'm just wondering, asking questions.and conjecturing. I'm just wondering what the truth of Jesus the man was.

 

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JMPD1
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

The place where I found the original message of Jesus...

 

 

So where did you find this truth? No need to be coy, if you are sincere that you wish all  >>to hear<< to the true words of your god, then lay it out.

Edited by JMPD1
left out a couple of words
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Sherapy
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

The place where I found the original message of Jesus, says that he originally taught that the only requirement for salvation, unlike what Paul taught, is faith (trust) that God is your Father, that you are his son or daughter and that all men and women are your brothers and sisters. And because of this, we will all be resurrected. 

That's the good news. Jesus' original message.

 

 

Sounds like Paul’s message too. Lol 

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Guyver
4 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

If Jesus is God like the Bible says he is, don't you think that he would see to it that his original teachings would be made available to study if you wanted to know them and apply them in your life?

I assure you that this has happened and if you want to know where they are, ask me, and I'll tell you where you can find them.

 

 

The original teachings of Jesus are unknown.

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Guyver
2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

It seems to me that one's concept of Jesus' original teaching comes down to one's opinion, as Jesus didn't write anything down, as far as I know. I think this is because it had already all been written down in what we call the Old Testament. Jesus preached what had already been said, or his interpretation of what already had been said.

Another interesting point is, what did Jesus think of himself to be? A reformer surely of the state of Judaism under Roman rule, a preacher of correct Judaism. On the other hand, one who has had a powerful religious awakening may consider himself a true spokesman for God, or God himself. 

Perhaps, at the time of Jesus' message having become a religion, the writers of the day may have embellished his story in a way to make Jesus at least a son of God. Unfortunately, Jesus wasn't alive to read, edit and correct the Gospels written about him.

I'm not trying to be anti-Christianity here, I'm just wondering, asking questions.and conjecturing. I'm just wondering what the truth of Jesus the man was.

 

Once, when I was an “on fire” Christian, I was brought in to debate the atheists.  A thing one atheist, stays with me.  He thought the Bible was written by brilliant lawyers.  At the time I laughed it off, but now 45 years later, I just give the Dr. Spock look when I think about it.  The Bible was written by people, and there’s no getting around that one.

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StarMountainKid
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Once, when I was an “on fire” Christian, I was brought in to debate the atheists.  A thing one atheist, stays with me.  He thought the Bible was written by brilliant lawyers.  At the time I laughed it off, but now 45 years later, I just give the Dr. Spock look when I think about it.  The Bible was written by people, and there’s no getting around that one.

The Gospels were written by unknown authors (probably Greek) 60 to 120 years after Jesus' death who had an agenda themselves (if we do some research into the writing of the Gospels) promoting the new Christian religion. The writers were sincere in their efforts, I think, but in my opinion, the Gospels are a mix-up of truths and fictions about the life and teachings of Jesus. 

Then again, if Jesus had written it all down, he may just have been remembered as a great philosopher, or another commentator on the Old Testament..

 

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Guyver

Yes to the above.  It just seems to me that if God said some stuff, there would be no denying it.

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StarMountainKid
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Yes to the above.  It just seems to me that if God said some stuff, there would be no denying it.

God wants to remain anonymous, so he can't be personally blamed for any mishaps, tragedies, etc. that may occur within his creation. :)

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Will Due
2 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Then again, if Jesus had written it all down . . .

 

The Bible says Jesus is God.

Maybe he didn't write it all down then because since he's God, he didn't need to do it in a hurry because again, since he's God, he knew that a time would come in the future when reducing the true record of his life and teachings to writing, could be sustained in print or computer media inviolate, like it's possible to do today. That way the text of the writing of his life could not be changed or altered by someone like it invariably was in ancient times. If God wanted us to have the exact facts, then he needed to wait to give them to us when a technology had evolved that could insure that the report of the facts could be guaranteed to be unchangeable by unscrupulous persons.

This inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings exists today, and I've been posting about where it can be found, ever since I joined this forum.

 

 

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StarMountainKid
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

The Bible says Jesus is God.

Maybe he didn't write it all down then because since he's God, he didn't need to do it in a hurry because again, since he's God, he knew that a time would come in the future when reducing the true record of his life and teachings to writing, could be sustained in print or computer media inviolate, like it's possible to do today. That way the text of the writing of his life could not be changed or altered by someone like it invariably was in ancient times. If God wanted us to have the exact facts, then he needed to wait to give them to us when a technology had evolved that could insure that the report of the facts could be guaranteed to be unchangeable by unscrupulous persons.

This inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings exists today, and I've been posting about where it can be found, ever since I joined this forum.

 

 

It seems to me if God wanted us to know His Truth, He would have announced  His Truth inviolate from the beginning. I mean, He's God, right? He could have done this and not allowed any changes or alterations. 

On the other hand, maybe God is wiser than that. That would mean living under a religious dictatorship, the worst kind of government, and what effect would that have on free will? 

God seems to have created the world as it is, and likes it this way. Everything's going according to plan. What the overall plan is... 

t's said that God has no specific religion, given all the various religions in the world, past and present. Maybe we can come to know God without relying on Religions. Religions are created by humans around various ideas and personalities. Perhaps Jesus realized this, but considered the religion of his society was the best way to express his insights.

Or, maybe Jesus was still caught up in the Judaism of his time and could not see beyond it. 

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JMPD1
1 hour ago, StarMountainKid said:

It seems to me if God wanted us to know His Truth, He would have announced  His Truth inviolate from the beginning. I mean, He's God, right? He could have done this and not allowed any changes or alterations. 

On the other hand, maybe God is wiser than that. That would mean living under a religious dictatorship, the worst kind of government, and what effect would that have on free will? 

God seems to have created the world as it is, and likes it this way. Everything's going according to plan. What the overall plan is... 

t's said that God has no specific religion, given all the various religions in the world, past and present. Maybe we can come to know God without relying on Religions. Religions are created by humans around various ideas and personalities. Perhaps Jesus realized this, but considered the religion of his society was the best way to express his insights.

Or, maybe Jesus was still caught up in the Judaism of his time and could not see beyond it. 

Paragraph 1 and paragraph 4 are in direct conflict of each other. Each religion has completely different 'understandings' of 'gods plans". If this mythical 'god' had a universal plan, then why are there so many interpretations of what god 'wants'? And ya wanna know something? If every tribe, every branch of humanity came up with the exact same holy book, rituals, and beliefs, then that would prove that there was a god. But the reality is that there were thousands of different religions, each one pretty much based on somebody saying "Hey, this god guy told me......."

Paragraph 2: why does knowledge of gods existence equal dictatorship? And before you shout "Free Will!", that doesn't hold water. There are examples in the bible where god directly circumvented the so-called concept of free will. Despite that though, IF god revealed himself to the world it would still allow for people to make a choice.  The only difference between a revealed god and a faith-based god, is that people would actually know, for a FACT, that their actions would have consequences in the afterlife. Again, look to your bible" the Hebrews, after witnessing numerous 'miracles' after their "escape from Egyptian bondage" still turned their back on Jehovah (according to the book) and began worshipping idols.

Paragraph 5: Maybe, this Jesus was just a Hebrew, trying to show his people a better way to honour their god. Nowhere in the bible is Jesus reported to have said "Hey, I'm here to start a brand new religion, based on ME, and you can just forget about that old time god of the desert!"

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Piney
6 hours ago, Will Due said:

The Bible says Jesus is God.

No, it doesn't. 

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danydandan

If you take where Jesus was born based on biblical writings he was most likely a Druze or had some influence from them. But I'm skeptical about the historical accuracy about the Bible.

 

The Druze people are quite interesting I'd recommend people look into their believe system.

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Piney
6 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

The Bible says Jesus is God.

Maybe he didn't write it all down then because since he's God, he didn't need to do it in a hurry because again, since he's God, he knew that a time would come in the future when reducing the true record of his life and teachings to writing, could be sustained in print or computer media inviolate, like it's possible to do today. That way the text of the writing of his life could not be changed or altered by someone like it invariably was in ancient times. If God wanted us to have the exact facts, then he needed to wait to give them to us when a technology had evolved that could insure that the report of the facts could be guaranteed to be unchangeable by unscrupulous persons.

This inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings exists today, and I've been posting about where it can be found, ever since I joined this forum.

 

 

You want to read something worthwhile. Read William Penn's 'No Cross, No Crown'. 

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JMPD1
7 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

 

This inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings exists today, and I've been posting about where it can be found, ever since I joined this forum.

 

 

"Really? so where can it be found?", the incredulous listener asked, for the second time.

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danydandan
6 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

"Really? so where can it be found?", the incredulous listener asked, for the second time.

You need to pay for the answer.

They only accepts credit cards.

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Will Due
5 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

"Really? so where can it be found?", the incredulous listener asked, for the second time.

 

The inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings will be found in Part 4 of the Urantia Book. 

http://bigbluebook.org/

 

 

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danydandan
24 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings will be found in Part 4 of the Urantia Book. 

http://bigbluebook.org/

 

 

Why do you continue to peddle this book?.

It offers no evidence for it's claims, the Author is unknown and the substance he or she were taking when writing it are also unkown. I know it's claimed higher beings helped but there is no evidence and you can't support that.

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JMPD1
3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

The inviolate text of the record of Jesus' life and teachings will be found in Part 4 of the Urantia Book. 

http://bigbluebook.org/

 

 

Ah, and how is this book any different from the book of Mormon, the bible, the edgar Cayce predictions, scientology, or the law of attraction books? No better, nor more credible than the conversations with god series of books.

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