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StarMountainKid

Jesus' Enlightenment and Original Message

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Piney
1 hour ago, JMPD1 said:

Ah, and how is this book any different from the book of Mormon, the bible, the edgar Cayce predictions, scientology, or the law of attraction books? No better, nor more credible than the conversations with god series of books.

The Bible at least has some historical truth in it. Not much and nothing worth remembering. But it's there. 

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StarMountainKid
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Jesus professed the foregoing of worldly possessions and convictions in order to find enlightenment or the Holy Spirit. “Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have” Hebrews 13:5. 

This is from ZenoFish's above link. It seems the enlightened value life differently than the rest of us. Who actually follows Jesus' teachings and way of life? The only way to understand Jesus is to achieve his enlightenment ourselves. Without that kind of transcendence of conventional life, all we have are empty words.

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Piney
On 3/16/2018 at 4:54 PM, StarMountainKid said:

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

If you study the Dead Sea Scrolls, particularly the Essene writings you could probably get a handle of the way Jesus may have thought. Matthew has some of what could have been his teachings but Matthew is a re-write of the original Matthew probably by a Iranian-Zoroastrian convert because the 3 Magi were added to the story as with the "Devil".

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Piney
2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

This is from ZenoFish's above link. It seems the enlightened value life differently than the rest of us. Who actually follows Jesus' teachings and way of life? The only way to understand Jesus is to achieve his enlightenment ourselves. Without that kind of transcendence of conventional life, all we have are empty words.

You have to look at the way the gospels originated. At first there could of been hundreds of them. But Athanasius, the Bishop of Alexandria ordered them all burnt but 27. In the source story, the "Q" story before all the characters and events that were added later such as Joseph, the 3 Zoroastrian Magi, the massacre of innocents, Mary gave birth to Jesus, alone under a date palm and even though the Quran says it was a virgin birth he could of been the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier. The Rabbinical sources say a Syrian Laeti , possibly a archer. 

 We know John the Baptist was a Essene and Jesus could of been his smartest student. 

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Crazy Horse
On 16 March 2018 at 8:54 PM, StarMountainKid said:

When Jesus was baptised by John, he experienced a sudden awakening. He went into the desert alone to contend with the Devil, which was really his conditioned mind. Transcending this, he returned to life in society.

Of course, Jesus was ready for enlightenment. I would think he must have spent his previous years questioning himself and the religion and society in which he lived. He expressed his enlightenment in the only way he knew, through the religious and spiritual life of Judiasm. 

The Buddha also expressed himself through the religion he knew, through Hinduism, although discarding its religious aspects. The New Testiment, being an somewhat unreliable account of Jesus' true life, I think Jesus was "a man awake" as the Buddha was, and if you met Jesus in person, he would be quite different in many ways than the Gospels describe him.

No one knows, of course, Jesus' original teachings, as the Buddha's original teachings are also lost to history. We only can glimpse fragments or an ambiance of their personalities and message, passed down through early memories, mostly oral, by their desciples and followers. 

So, as I say, I believe if we could meet Jesus or the Buddha, they would be different in person than we would expect them to be. Jesus, especially, because, after all, Jesus was not a Christian, and had no desire to found a new religion separate from Judiasm. 

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

I read a book once, about the Buddha, and about a man called Prince Gautama..

Make of it what you will....!

 

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Clockwork_Spirit
13 hours ago, JMPD1 said:

Ah, and how is this book any different from the book of Mormon, the bible, the edgar Cayce predictions, scientology, or the law of attraction books? No better, nor more credible than the conversations with god series of books.

The Christ within is my only authority.

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

This is from ZenoFish's above link. It seems the enlightened value life differently than the rest of us. Who actually follows Jesus' teachings and way of life? The only way to understand Jesus is to achieve his enlightenment ourselves. Without that kind of transcendence of conventional life, all we have are empty words.

Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?

This is a quote pulled straight from The Gospel of Thomas.

The World of Forms has no permanant existence of itself. Clearly all forms, worlds and heavens must pass away and thus do not truly live. From that perspective, clinging to material, worldy possessions as if they 'meant something' is absurd. Having less is actually an advantage.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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eight bits

Clockwork

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The Christ within is my only authority.

Quote

This is a quote pulled straight from The Gospel of Thomas.

Which is it?
-

@Clockwork_Spirit

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, eight bits said:

Clockwork

Which is it?
-

@Clockwork_Spirit

Scripture is a guide, the Christ within is the catalyst to unlock unlimited potential.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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eight bits

Clockwork

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Scripture is a guide, the Christ within is the catalyst to unlock unlimited potential.

Thanks, that's what I asked. So, it isn't quite the case that your "Christ within" is your only authority. You mix and match that with what you read (which isn't just canonical scripture, but other writings, too, like Thomas - which is peachy with me).

Is there anything else in the stew pot? For example, many people profit from their ordinary experience, common sense, ... is there anything like that in your recipe?

-

@Clockwork_Spirit

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, eight bits said:

Is there anything else in the stew pot? For example, many people profit from their ordinary experience, common sense, ... is there anything like that in your recipe?

Forgiveness.

It's certainly a universal theme that crosses all ideologies and faiths. Forgiveness releases us from bondage of the egoic self and allows us to see the eternal realm. As the Gospel of Truth says: ''Forgiveness is that which remains for the light in the deficiency, the Word of the fullness.''

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
On 17/03/2018 at 7:24 AM, StarMountainKid said:

When Jesus was baptised by John, he experienced a sudden awakening. He went into the desert alone to contend with the Devil, which was really his conditioned mind. Transcending this, he returned to life in society.

Of course, Jesus was ready for enlightenment. I would think he must have spent his previous years questioning himself and the religion and society in which he lived. He expressed his enlightenment in the only way he knew, through the religious and spiritual life of Judiasm. 

The Buddha also expressed himself through the religion he knew, through Hinduism, although discarding its religious aspects. The New Testiment, being an somewhat unreliable account of Jesus' true life, I think Jesus was "a man awake" as the Buddha was, and if you met Jesus in person, he would be quite different in many ways than the Gospels describe him.

No one knows, of course, Jesus' original teachings, as the Buddha's original teachings are also lost to history. We only can glimpse fragments or an ambiance of their personalities and message, passed down through early memories, mostly oral, by their desciples and followers. 

So, as I say, I believe if we could meet Jesus or the Buddha, they would be different in person than we would expect them to be. Jesus, especially, because, after all, Jesus was not a Christian, and had no desire to found a new religion separate from Judiasm. 

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

A lot of Christs teachings as recorded in the bible  are the same as those of the Hillel rabbinical school  from the same period. i am not sure why  you think we do not know his thoughts and words  They were orally recorded and passed on as teachings to first century Jewish Christians         ( for a couple of decades ALL Christians were also jewish )There were even probably  contemporary written copies which are now lost  The first gospels appear to have been written down  in the form we now know, about  40 years after Christ's death.

If you go back to Christs teachings recorded in the bible and also study the hillel rabbinical teachings, you get a good idea of what christ taught and believed   Modern Judaism is surprisingly close to it   Paul began the "gentilization  "of Christianity when the jewish mainstream rejected Christ's reformist doctrine  The roman empire both Hellenised it and paganised it,  and the catholic church modified the original message in huge ways over a long period of time.

Many people don't realise that, for centuries, the original   Christians  had not just married priests, but female ones, and worshipped on the seventh day ( as jews still do ) .  

Edited by Mr Walker
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intoyoulikeatrain
On 3/16/2018 at 1:54 PM, StarMountainKid said:

When Jesus was baptised by John, he experienced a sudden awakening. He went into the desert alone to contend with the Devil, which was really his conditioned mind. Transcending this, he returned to life in society.

Of course, Jesus was ready for enlightenment. I would think he must have spent his previous years questioning himself and the religion and society in which he lived. He expressed his enlightenment in the only way he knew, through the religious and spiritual life of Judiasm. 

The Buddha also expressed himself through the religion he knew, through Hinduism, although discarding its religious aspects. The New Testiment, being an somewhat unreliable account of Jesus' true life, I think Jesus was "a man awake" as the Buddha was, and if you met Jesus in person, he would be quite different in many ways than the Gospels describe him.

No one knows, of course, Jesus' original teachings, as the Buddha's original teachings are also lost to history. We only can glimpse fragments or an ambiance of their personalities and message, passed down through early memories, mostly oral, by their desciples and followers. 

So, as I say, I believe if we could meet Jesus or the Buddha, they would be different in person than we would expect them to be. Jesus, especially, because, after all, Jesus was not a Christian, and had no desire to found a new religion separate from Judiasm. 

Finally, I'm asking if Christianity, in all its iterations, is a true expression of Jesus' beliefs and teachings?

Many things have been said about Jesus. You can be sure though he's no buddha but oblivious people never cease to amaze why they try to resurrect a defunct theory about Jesus going to Tibet, Japan, Indian, North America and now South Africa. Enlightenment is nothing more than an Exorcist revisited but I've no problem with that. Christianity was a mystery religion and it's now going back to its roots.

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intoyoulikeatrain

There are several Christian mystery cults in ancient times. They probably included the crucified Jesus story because it worked right in the dying-rising gods belief of the mystery cults. To say outright they believed Jesus was a rabbi is a mistake. Some Christian cults think Jesus was a wandering magician and not a follower of Jehovah.

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danydandan
41 minutes ago, intoyoulikeatrain said:

There are several Christian mystery cults in ancient times. They probably included the crucified Jesus story because it worked right in the dying-rising gods belief of the mystery cults. To say outright they believed Jesus was a rabbi is a mistake. Some Christian cults think Jesus was a wandering magician and not a follower of Jehovah.

Pretty sure the council of nicea decided on the divinity of Jesus.

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intoyoulikeatrain

They had the swords and spears. Propaganda machine too. B)

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Sir Smoke aLot
On 3/16/2018 at 9:54 PM, StarMountainKid said:

Jesus was not a Christian, and had no desire to found a new religion separate from Judiasm. 

It was turbulent time period, for example Roman occupation and all brutality of those times which did impact local society and population. There were more than one group of followers of God's first rules, or Torah which is holy book and no different than essential divine values which are similar for every Abrahamic religion.

So, Judaism was not simply religion followed, practiced and preached by all of the population in the same way. I see now that every Wikipedia page and majority of religious sites and preachers depict Jesus as Jew and as first century Jewish preacher.

There are many disagreements about Jesus in religions, especially in Judaism and Christianity which makes me believe it's absurd to claim that he had no desire to found new religion. Jesus, as teachings write, was explicitly speaking about different groups within local population and he didn't accept them all but said that some are ''of your father the devil''. Hence, at least he was sent to reform that which was corrupted, otherwise he would not be sent?

If that was the case why did Christianity survive and why was Talmudian Judaism and Talmud changed so many times because it was not friendly towards Jesus? Thing is that there would not be Christianity if it didn't offer something different than Judaism, as much as there would be no Islam if it did not offer something different than Christianity.

Being different and spiritually more acceptable than alternatives at the time was deciding factor in rise of religion, any religion or sect. Your claim and that which is accepted widely these days seem to be baseless.

So my question is why do Christianity and Islam exist if Jesus was simply prophet of Judaism?

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danydandan
35 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

So my question is why do Christianity and Islam exist if Jesus was simply prophet of Judaism?

In the case of Christianity there are many reasons why it became popular. First and foremost it was a tool used by an empire to control it's people. Then used to influence other rulers gain power and wealth.

Not sure about Islam

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Sir Smoke aLot
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, danydandan said:

First and foremost it was a tool used by an empire to control it's people.

Emperor Constantine story doesn't go in favor of that claim tho because, even after Constantine, it was clear that majority of population in Roman Empire was not Christian but actually still pagan or Roman multi deity thingy so it would be more easier to continue to control population by using old, tested ways rather than trying to 'Christianize' it. Rome was certainly aware that such attempt would just make power imbalance and possibly threaten the Empire (as it did in centuries after).

You can't make tool to preserve the Empire in that which would disrupt it from head to toe, so to say. And that was witnessed in history, both Christian and scholar.

I don't know it seems to me that reason why is very simple because religion has to find the way into people before it can even get to the point of becoming major influence in Roman Empire of those times. It seems more plausible to me, rather than having to imply all sorts of political games etc. There has to be believer base first, politics and games come only after?

My focus is in believer base and why they chose Jesus Christ, not sure if my approach is correct tho that's why i write here :)

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot
added question
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