Blinded by your religion.

[StarMountainKid]

A member here used to have this quote:

"They came with a Bible and their religion. They stole our land and crushed our spirit, and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved." - Chief Pontiac

 

[simplybill]

16 minutes ago, Piney said:

Never said all Christians, My best friend is a Presbyterian Minister. 

Piney - it's only a matter of time before someone brings up the Middle Ages and makes a blanket condemnation of all of Christianity. The world we're living in today has it's own problems; serious problems that need to be dealt with today. I read these posts about how horrible Christians are, when I have friends risking their lives in countries where they're under threat of being kidnapped and beheaded for starting orphanages, or feeding families, or providing shelter for single women in danger of being raped. This is happening today, in the real world. And yet people get offended about Christianity because we talk about Jesus.    

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Piney - it's only a matter of time before someone brings up the Middle Ages and makes a blanket condemnation of all of Christianity. The world we're living in today has it's own problems; serious problems that need to be dealt with today. I read these posts about how horrible Christians are, when I have friends risking their lives in countries where they're under threat of being kidnapped and beheaded for starting orphanages, or feeding families, or providing shelter for single women in danger of being raped. This is happening today, in the real world. And yet people get offended about Christianity because we talk about Jesus.    

The fundamentalists are causing trouble for real Christians with their pushy, backwards and violent agenda and it's making the rest look bad. That's why people are getting p***ed at the whole religion. I told you I don't hate Christians in my first statement. 

[Illyrius]

2 hours ago, simplybill said:

There's a reason that the weakest in society become the prey: they don't have the ability to fight back. That's why schoolgirls are kidnapped, and widows in India are thrown on their husband's funeral pyres (the British ended the practice of Sati, but it's becoming popular again in rural areas). I have a real problem with the mistreatment of women. If you think I'm being judgmental, I agree with you.  

Well this is all true but we are all a prey of this or that propaganda machine and the way it molds the mind of population. In previous times you needed armies to conquer lands and achieve your goals, and today you achieve this through shaping of mindeset of population with media brainwashing. I mean if you control the way people think and draw their attention in a direction you like it to be directed then you are really controlling this population and in that sense everyone is a prey due to susceptability of mind to subconscious influences.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Illyrius

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Well this is all true but we are all a prey of this or that propaganda machine and the way it molds the mind of population. In previous times you needed armies to conquer lands and achieve your goals, and today you achieve this through shaping of mindeset of population with media brainwashing. I mean if you control the way people think and draw their attention in a direction you like it to be directed then you are really controlling this population and in that sense everyone is a prey due to susceptability of mind to subconscious influences.

 

That's right. And at the center of that brainwashing lies the most devious thing of all. The program of propaganda is specific in two ways. First it is designed to make the unsuspecting think in a certain way. Second, and perhaps most importantly, the brainwashing is implemented so that there isn't implanted a seed to need to question what has really happened and what's really going on with them.

 

 

[Illyrius]

11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Second, and perhaps most importantly, the brainwashing is implemented so that there isn't implanted a seed to need to question what has really happened and what's really going on with them.

Well this arises from a need of people to go along the mainstream flock, that is the way of zen existance that makes life warm and fuzzy. Ideas and worldviews slowly and gradually implanted into minds from various trumpets of propaganda orchestra become a norm of living and anyone questioning this norms becomes a weirdo - so that's pretty simple alright.

[Jodie.Lynne]

Assuming, of course, that the bible is true........

[Piney]

@Will Due I had a Quaker Great Aunt, Emma Engle, she had me read everything concerning Christianity, Judaism and Islam. I hated it but my Meteiinu grandfather, Wayandaga had me do it so I learn about all religions.

[XenoFish]

[Jodie.Lynne]

Faith is believing something when you have no evidence to support it.

[Illyrius]

2 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

Faith is believing something when you have no evidence to support it.

 

[Will Due]

13 minutes ago, JMPD1 said:

Faith is believing something when you have no evidence to support it.

 

Having evidence for the existence of God, which you're only supposed to have faith in, cannot be explained to people who refuse to get beyond their need to have it ALL their way.

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Having evidence for the existence of God, which you're only supposed to have faith in, cannot be explained to people who refuse to get beyond their need to have it ALL their way.

 

 

Why are you "only" supposed to have faith?

didn't Moses, Adam, Abraham, and others have the proof of god's existence? And evidence is more than just claiming that 'you know' (general pronoun), and that those who don't believe can't understand.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Having evidence for the existence of God, which you're only supposed to have faith in, cannot be explained to people who refuse to get beyond their need to have it ALL their way.

 

 

I'm trying to show you how to have it your way. By reading other things.

My boss is a Presbyterian Minister but he doesn't agree with everything Calvin wrote. He makes his own decisions about his spirituality.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, JMPD1 said:

Why are you "only" supposed to have faith?

didn't Moses, Adam, Abraham, and others have the proof of god's existence? And evidence is more than just claiming that 'you know' (general pronoun), and that those who don't believe can't understand.

 

It is a dilema. Not having proof.

In ancient times there certainly was proof. But because some pivotal and high ranking individuals in antiquity had to have it all their way, this proof that was there before, doesn't exist anymore. (But today, there are other forms of proof that did not exist before.)

What that means is that now the purpose, result and level of faith is much higher. The harder the work, the greater the reward.

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

How is 'faith' an accurate path to truth? Isn't it possible, with faith, to believe anything without having good reason?

do you have faith that unicorns exist?

how about dragons? or leprechauns? or the superiority of one "race" over another?

Without concrete evidence or proofs, then all matters of 'faith based' beliefs become equally valid & possible, is this not so?

[Will Due]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

I'm trying to show you how to have it your way. By reading other things.

My boss is a Presbyterian Minister but he doesn't agree with everything Calvin wrote. He makes his own decisions about his spirituality.

 

Here's a Bible verse that indicates what will happen when someone needs to have it their way.

 

Proverbs 14:12   

There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

 

So take your own advice and read other things.

 

 

[Will Due]

Do you vote in elections?

Then you used faith to believe in what the candidate you voted for said.

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you vote in elections?

Then you used faith to believe in what the candidate you voted for said.

 

 

You make a false assumption. Some people will actually base their political choices upon a candidates past political record and activities. Of course, there are many who base their voting choices on: A - the latest & loudest sound bite, and/or B - whatever the voter hears that makes them feel good, or hears what they want to believe. And I'm reasonably sure I know which camp YOU fall into.

 

I find it amusing that you seem to equate voting (on a real live person in a real life election) with beliefs in non-material, unprovable mythological ideas.

[Illyrius]

6 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you vote in elections?

Then you used faith to believe in what the candidate you voted for said.

 

 

This is a good point. Some people see anything that relies on faith as something irrational. So another good example of the falsity of this attitude is to ask for example "Do you have faith in kindness of your friends?"

What is really irrational is to deny the fact that in life you have to rely on faith too.

[XenoFish]

6 hours ago, JMPD1 said:

And your statement about faith is inaccurate, and fallacious, since the bible clearly proclaims that you should shine your faith like a beacon. "do not hide your light under a bushel basket....."

Faith is a false position to base any beliefs upon. 

I really think it comes down to embracing some meaning in an absurd universe. Where we must invent a purpose and point to our finite existence. All spiritual beliefs are equally invalid. Yet if they actually make you a better person who cares. Then again those that faith does benefit aren't here making snide comments and proclaiming their beliefs valid. Their out there living life the best they can, being the best they can, and trying to make life better. I think we can see how belief affects some of the individuals here. As for myself, religion didn't enhance my life. It make it worse. I don't deal well with the idea of an imaginary dictator who will punish me for even the slightest infraction. The hippie jesus didn't pan out too well either. I choose philosophy, because I can change it at any time. 

"Do unto others and you would have done to you."

You honestly do not need anything more than a simple life philosophy. Everything else is filler.

[jmccr8]

14 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Well this is all true but we are all a prey of this or that propaganda machine and the way it molds the mind of population. In previous times you needed armies to conquer lands and achieve your goals, and today you achieve this through shaping of mindeset of population with media brainwashing. I mean if you control the way people think and draw their attention in a direction you like it to be directed then you are really controlling this population and in that sense everyone is a prey due to susceptability of mind to subconscious influences.

Hi Illyrius

To an extent I agree but each individual has the ability to question and research, only a lazy mind stops looking because they think they know it all. There is no end to learning so I matter how much one learns there is much yet to discover.

jmccr8

Edited March 19, 2018 by jmccr8
Fat fingers or the devil made me do it

[Piney]

I just learned some more of the psychology behind being blinded by doctrine. Which is what this thread is about.

[XenoFish]

13 minutes ago, Piney said:

I just learned some more of the psychology behind being blinded by doctrine. Which is what this thread is about.

Here we go. 

https://psychologenie.com/concept-of-belief-perseverance-explained

[XenoFish]

I might need to rethink using confirmation bias. Belief perseverance might actually be the right term.

Also found this. Belief Bias

Edited March 19, 2018 by XenoFish
Added link