GoldenWolf Posted March 19, 2018 #76 Share Posted March 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Will Due said: Here's a Bible verse that indicates what will happen when someone needs to have it their way. Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. So take your own advice and read other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 19, 2018 #77 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Illyrius said: This is a good point. Some people see anything that relies on faith as something irrational. So another good example of the falsity of this attitude is to ask for example "Do you have faith in kindness of your friends?" What is really irrational is to deny the fact that in life you have to rely on faith too. Hi Illyrius I voted once and after working at the legislative building for our provincial government decided not to support a system that I don't believe in based on the actions of those in power that I had an opportunity to observe. I would never act subversively against this country because I swore an oath of allegiance to it. I am a friendly person but would not say that I have faith in anything/one other than myself. I am the only aspect of life that I can know and understand in totality, experience has taught me to have faith in myself and to face challenges based on that faith. So yes I rely on faith in myself. jmccr8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #78 Share Posted March 19, 2018 16 hours ago, Piney said: 17 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: You know, granted, I do feel there have been good things to some who have come to other cultures. I know of someone who went as one and helped educated and other good things for a village. It came off to me, as very selfless. I think there should be a line of what is good and what is not, in this. Quaker missionaries try to preserve indigenous beliefs and only give food, clothing and medical aid. I find that good to know. I know so little about Quakerism, (well to be perfectly honest, I know so little of every religion, being raised in a secular houshold.) so I find your post very interesting. And, yes, a bit comforting. 12 hours ago, Will Due said: 12 hours ago, JMPD1 said: A unicorn is a mythical beast, as are leprechauns, loch ness monsters, dragons, and gods. If you can have "faith" in one, then all other myths become equally viable. And your statement about faith is inaccurate, and fallacious, since the bible clearly proclaims that you should shine your faith like a beacon. "do not hide your light under a bushel basket....." Faith is a false position to base any beliefs upon. Do you vote in elections? Then you used faith to believe in what the candidate you voted for said. I sincerely hope not. Well, at least, that is not all that one depends on when going out to vote. Actually, I think the best voter is the more informed one. Faith is just a small part of it, in my book. 5 hours ago, Illyrius said: 12 hours ago, Will Due said: Do you vote in elections? Then you used faith to believe in what the candidate you voted for said. This is a good point. Some people see anything that relies on faith as something irrational. So another good example of the falsity of this attitude is to ask for example "Do you have faith in kindness of your friends?" What is really irrational is to deny the fact that in life you have to rely on faith too. As someone who has her own unique belief, I can understand the feeling on using faith, but in real life, that shouldn't be the only thing. In fact, the way I see it, it plays a very small part in it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 19, 2018 #79 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I find that good to know. I know so little about Quakerism, (well to be perfectly honest, I know so little of every religion, being raised in a secular houshold.) so I find your post very interesting. And, yes, a bit comforting. I sincerely hope not. Well, at least, that is not all that one depends on when going out to vote. Actually, I think the best voter is the more informed one. Faith is just a small part of it, in my book. As someone who has her own unique belief, I can understand the feeling on using faith, but in real life, that shouldn't be the only thing. In fact, the way I see it, it plays a very small part in it. Yes, in Faith one sees more than is apparent to the sense, yet they who see nothing calls one blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 19, 2018 #80 Share Posted March 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Yes, in Faith one sees more than is apparent to the sense, yet they who see nothing calls one blind. You see what you want/expect to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 19, 2018 #81 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, XenoFish said: You see what you want/expect to see. Hi Xeno Yup the righteous sword with no consequence and everyone can have one. jmccr8 Edited March 19, 2018 by jmccr8 Phone is messing with me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 19, 2018 #82 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, XenoFish said: You see what you want/expect to see. So do you. You expect nothing and see nothing. So, for you, nothing is all there is. That is your choice to make. I choose another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 19, 2018 #83 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said: So do you. You expect nothing and see nothing. So, for you, nothing is all there is. That is your choice to make. I choose another. Quite often I'm am pleasantly surprised. I make an effort to see the world unfiltered. While I'm not always successful, its better than seeing things through rose tinted glasses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 19, 2018 #84 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Just now, XenoFish said: Quite often I'm am pleasantly surprised. I make an effort to see the world unfiltered. While I'm not always successful, its better than seeing things through rose tinted glasses. Better rose-tinted than through a glass, darkly. Dark is your vision--I prefer the light, rosy and glowing with possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 19, 2018 #85 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Better rose-tinted than through a glass, darkly. Dark is your vision--I prefer the light, rosy and glowing with possibility. So fantasy over reality? I see things as is. You are more than free to see the world through you're own subjective filter. Just for reference purpose you do not know my current view on things. I've come a long way gramps. Edited March 19, 2018 by XenoFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #86 Share Posted March 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: 27 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I find that good to know. I know so little about Quakerism, (well to be perfectly honest, I know so little of every religion, being raised in a secular houshold.) so I find your post very interesting. And, yes, a bit comforting. I sincerely hope not. Well, at least, that is not all that one depends on when going out to vote. Actually, I think the best voter is the more informed one. Faith is just a small part of it, in my book. As someone who has her own unique belief, I can understand the feeling on using faith, but in real life, that shouldn't be the only thing. In fact, the way I see it, it plays a very small part in it. Yes, in Faith one sees more than is apparent to the sense, yet they who see nothing calls one blind. Chalk this up to my slight inability to understand something right away. I'm trying to find a correlation to what I said. 15 minutes ago, XenoFish said: 24 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Yes, in Faith one sees more than is apparent to the sense, yet they who see nothing calls one blind. You see what you want/expect to see. I'm still confused. 9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Xeno Yup the righteous sword with no consequence and everyone can have one. jmccr8 And my path to confusion is almost complete!! (Remember, it could just be me.) 9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: 17 minutes ago, XenoFish said: You see what you want/expect to see. So do you. You expect nothing and see nothing. So, for you, nothing is all there is. That is your choice to make. I choose another. But! But! But! Is this any correlation to my point of faith being a small part in being informed as a better choice?!?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 19, 2018 #87 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) Its about one's subjective view of things momma bear. Edited March 19, 2018 by XenoFish 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #88 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: Its about one's subjective view of things momma bear. Thank you my son, for helping to clarify it to me. Though, I'm still trying to understand Hammie's point/reply to my post. (Sorry Hammie...... still confused) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 19, 2018 #89 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, XenoFish said: So fantasy over reality? I see things as is. You are more than free to see the world through you're own subjective filter. Just for reference purpose you do not know my current view on things. I've come a long way gramps. Sounds to me like your going in a circle, saying nothing you haven't said before. Anyone saying anything you choose not to believe still causes you the same consternation evoking the same time-worn responses. How many times have we met at this exact same spot before? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 19, 2018 #90 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: Chalk this up to my slight inability to understand something right away. I'm trying to find a correlation to what I said. I'm still confused. And my path to confusion is almost complete!! (Remember, it could just be me.) But! But! But! Is this any correlation to my point of faith being a small part in being informed as a better choice?!?! Hi Stubbly Good to see you here again. I was just saying in a round about way that the same things can be seen from different perspectives and when taken as an absolute they diminish potential. We have a habit of breaking things down to their smallest components to understand them, I have a tendency to reassemble them to try to understand their significance in the bigger picture. Works for me but then I end up feeling like I'm in the middle of a war that is not mine. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #91 Share Posted March 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Stubbly Good to see you here again. I was just saying in a round about way that the same things can be seen from different perspectives and when taken as an absolute they diminish potential. We have a habit of breaking things down to their smallest components to understand them, I have a tendency to reassemble them to try to understand their significance in the bigger picture. Works for me but then I end up feeling like I'm in the middle of a war that is not mine. jmccr8 Thank you as well, for also clarifying it for me. I was wondering if that is what is being discussed. For me, though, I was trying to understand Hammie's point in reply to my point of not relying solely on faith, that even though faith is used, yes, being informed is the end result to anything, in my feeling. If I looked over Hammie's quote to me again: Quote Yes, in Faith one sees more than is apparent to the sense, yet they who see nothing calls one blind. I guess, he's agreeing with my point in not solely using faith in decisions and actions...... I guess. Hammie! Help me out here!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 19, 2018 #92 Share Posted March 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: Thank you as well, for also clarifying it for me. I was wondering if that is what is being discussed. For me, though, I was trying to understand Hammie's point in reply to my point of not relying solely on faith, that even though faith is used, yes, being informed is the end result to anything, in my feeling. If I looked over Hammie's quote to me again: I guess, he's agreeing with my point in not solely using faith in decisions and actions...... I guess. Hammie! Help me out here!!! Hi Stubbly I think that he is saying that there is more than just the observable and quantifiable. In part I agree but for me it is the faith and determination that I have in myself. Because I see us as god it could be interpreted as because I have faith in myself I have faith in god which is potential. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 19, 2018 #93 Share Posted March 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: Thank you as well, for also clarifying it for me. I was wondering if that is what is being discussed. For me, though, I was trying to understand Hammie's point in reply to my point of not relying solely on faith, that even though faith is used, yes, being informed is the end result to anything, in my feeling. If I looked over Hammie's quote to me again: I guess, he's agreeing with my point in not solely using faith in decisions and actions...... I guess. Hammie! Help me out here!!! All we mortals, dreaming of immortality, or are we immortals, lost in a mortal dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #94 Share Posted March 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: 23 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: Thank you as well, for also clarifying it for me. I was wondering if that is what is being discussed. For me, though, I was trying to understand Hammie's point in reply to my point of not relying solely on faith, that even though faith is used, yes, being informed is the end result to anything, in my feeling. If I looked over Hammie's quote to me again: I guess, he's agreeing with my point in not solely using faith in decisions and actions...... I guess. Hammie! Help me out here!!! Hi Stubbly I think that he is saying that there is more than just the observable and quantifiable. In part I agree but for me it is the faith and determination that I have in myself. Because I see us as god it could be interpreted as because I have faith in myself I have faith in god which is potential. jmccr8 Well, isn't that what I was saying in the post he responded to? But, I do feel the same way as you do, from your last line in your post. 5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: 25 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: Thank you as well, for also clarifying it for me. I was wondering if that is what is being discussed. For me, though, I was trying to understand Hammie's point in reply to my point of not relying solely on faith, that even though faith is used, yes, being informed is the end result to anything, in my feeling. If I looked over Hammie's quote to me again: I guess, he's agreeing with my point in not solely using faith in decisions and actions...... I guess. Hammie! Help me out here!!! All we mortals, dreaming of immortality, or are we immortals, lost in a mortal dream? Naw, ya still lost me, Hammie! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 19, 2018 #95 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I don't think anyone has the right to force religion or skepticism or anything on anyone. But is it wrong to try and open someone's eyes if they have been blinded by faith in anything. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #96 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, danydandan said: I don't think anyone has the right to force religion or skepticism or anything on anyone. But is it wrong to try and open someone's eyes if they have been blinded by faith in anything. I would think, that depends on if they know for a fact, they have the correct information to open someone else's eyes with. I think another question would be, is it arrogant for someone to think they have the correct information, and are the only ones, to open other's eyes with? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 19, 2018 #97 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I would think, that depends on if they know for a fact, they have the correct information to open someone else's eyes with. I think another question would be, is it arrogant for someone to think they have the correct information, and are the only ones, to open other's eyes with? Wars have been waged on such topics I doubt a consensus will be reached here. I'm my experience attacking ones beliefs makes their beliefs stronger. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted March 19, 2018 #98 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, danydandan said: 5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I would think, that depends on if they know for a fact, they have the correct information to open someone else's eyes with. I think another question would be, is it arrogant for someone to think they have the correct information, and are the only ones, to open other's eyes with? Wars have been waged on such topics I doubt a consensus will be reached here. I'm my experience attacking ones beliefs makes their beliefs stronger. Thanks for your honesty in your first line. As for your second line, and in my experiences, it depends on how strong one holds their belief. But then again, since those with the beliefs are the ones being attacked, (going from your post) I think there is already a grounded understanding and strength in how they believe, that no matter how someone else would come up and try to attack and convert, there is just no way. I feel this way with my belief, that I don't think anyone can sway me, no matter what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 19, 2018 #99 Share Posted March 19, 2018 What do you do when you're blinded by your atheism (lack of faith)? How will you see if you've been blinded? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted March 19, 2018 #100 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Illyrius To an extent I agree but each individual has the ability to question and research, only a lazy mind stops looking because they think they know it all. There is no end to learning so I matter how much one learns there is much yet to discover. jmccr8 I would say potential rather than an ability. For example i am very lazy and i dont like to do anything but lying down on a beach, watching seagulls and scratching stuff on forum, and my personal opinion is that vast majority of people just goes down with the flow and doesnt really like to question things either because they dont have the time to do so or they are just interested in molding with whatever the mindset of other gulls in the flock is, so consequently it all ends up in a peer review of flock of seagulls correcting themselves about who is more politically correct and in a contest of this flock on which seagull is most proficient in denigrating the odious politically incorrect crows. Edited March 19, 2018 by Illyrius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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