Richard Dawkins and Christianity

[Illyrius]

6 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

So here is my take on this.  I grew up in a Christian environment, I attended church every week, I was confirmed (named) by the church, baptised by the church and I even went to a catholic school to be educated by the church.

 I grew up in a communist land called Yugoslavia and in every classroom we had a picture of Communist dictator Tito. My father never explained himself concerning faith but my mother was Christian although she didnt like the church, and i attended only one year of religious Christian studies but i found it utterly boring and nonsensical.

 

6 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

For a variety of reasons too long to go into I turned my back on the faith at the age of about 17.  I remember the moment I decided I could no longer believe the narrative, it was as if God disappeared in a 'puff of logic' just as Douglas Adams had so cannily written.

Although when i was about 13-15 i considered myself a Christian i also turned my back to Christianity because i couldnt reconcile the reality of the world around me and teachings of religious institutions about meeknees in the world full of vampires, and because i also found many contradictions about teachings of Christianity. I read Adams book about hitchiking when i was 15 and i think of it as a Bible of atheism.

 

[FFA]

3 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Well....I haven't heard of any UFO buffs shooting non believers outside of Area 51 recently...

Consider the religious culture and mindset in the United States up until WWII. In short, it was very different then now. Christianity was the central religion and they have a very classical life and family view. What you will find is the cultural and religious mindset is that of the powers in control. What we are seeing is a shift in power of what is behind the scenes controlling.

If the current cultural influence reflects that of what is in control. Then the ones of previous power was structured according the culture at the end of WWII.

How would one power shift the culture into a culture that is completely different from the previous?

 

Here a punch list of how to do it.

Deregulate immigration and make it easy for those from other countries to integrate into it. Mix a conglomerate of cultures into it. This will completely change a lot.

If the current family structure is hierarchy it patriarchal. Produce a movement to move it to matriarchal family structure.

To initiate the change shock the culture by producing a hippie movement and bombard the popular culture with drugs and socialy program them with musics that teaches the opposite mindset of the previous generations. (So you say you want a revolution.)

Infect the educational system with secular stance that is contrary to the current religious mindset. Teach a collection of beliefs to define the origin of humanity and life that is denies the position of the previous beliefs.

Popularize a belief system to replace the old belief system and ensure it is almost in all ways contradictory to the old. This is Atheism.

Utilize popular media to reflect the new mindset.

Train the new culture to ridicule the previous mindset.

 

There are other things but to make a long story short things are shifting on purpose. The controlling powers are feeding the modern culture their information strategically.

Religion is a tool to control the masses and will not be removed. It is just getting a new face.

 

Also make no bones about it. If the previous TPBP returns then their method of shifting the culture to the way they think will include violence. Past history has shown us this.

As far as Europe, it has already shifted. 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[Illyrius]

18 minutes ago, FFA said:

Consider the religious culture and mindset in the United States up until WWII. In short, it was very different then now. Christianity was the central religion and they have a very classical life and family view. What you will find is the cultural and religious mindset is that of the powers in control. What we are seeing is a shift in power of what is behind the scenes controlling.

If the current cultural influence reflects that of what is in control. Then the ones of previous power was structured according the culture at the end of WWII.

How would one power shift the culture into a culture that is completely different from the previous?

 

Here a punch list of how to do it.

Deregulate immigration and make it easy for those from other countries to integrate into it. Mix a conglomerate of cultures into it. This will completely change a lot.

If the current family structure is hierarchy it patriarchal. Produce a movement to move it to matriarchal family structure.

To initiate the change shock the culture by producing a hippie movement and bombard the popular culture with drugs and socialy program them with musics that teaches the opposite mindset of the previous generations. (So you say you want a revolution.)

Infect the educational system with secular stance that is contrary to the current religious mindset. Teach a collection of beliefs to define the origin of humanity and life that is denies the position of the previous beliefs.

Popularize a belief system to replace the old belief system and ensure it is almost in all ways contradictory to the old. This is Atheism.

Utilize popular media to reflect the new mindset.

Train the new culture to ridicule the previous mindset.

 

There are other things but to make a long story short things are shifting on purpose. The controlling powers are feeding the modern culture their information strategically.

Religion is a tool to control the masses and will not be removed. It is just getting a new face.

 

Also make no bones about it. If the previous TPBP returns then their method of shifting the culture to the way they think will include violence. Past history has shown us this.

As far as Europe, it has already shifted. 

 

[I'mConvinced]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

. I read Adams book about hitchiking when i was 15 and i think of it as a Bible of atheism.

Haha, well maybe some hold it as such. To me it's just brilliant dead pan humour that simultaneously pokes fun at life, the universe and everything. One of my favourite lines, read from the guide:

Quote

(For reasons, see Vogon ) Vogon ships are yellow chunky slablike somethings, huge as office buildings, silent as birds. They hang in the air in much the same way that bricks don't

 

[Illyrius]

1 minute ago, I'mConvinced said:

Haha, well maybe some hold it as such. To me it's just brilliant dead pan humour that simultaneously pokes fun at life, the universe and everything. One of my favourite lines, read from the guide:

 

Humour is excellent. I remember Vogons of course and also that part about the worst poetry in the universe.. alot of things really. Great humour is one dimension of the book, but it really as central theme has a sort of opposite spirit towards world as religions do. It begins with the intro at how insignificant earth is in cosmic terms, when main character's house is about to be demolished and earth too because it is in a way for making a cosmic highway. One of the main lines of atheistic thinking is in terms of insignificance of earth as opposed to previous teachings about earth as a center of the universe.

[Illyrius]

45 minutes ago, FFA said:

Consider the religious culture and mindset in the United States up until WWII. In short, it was very different then now. Christianity was the central religion and they have a very classical life and family view. What you will find is the cultural and religious mindset is that of the powers in control. What we are seeing is a shift in power of what is behind the scenes controlling.

If the current cultural influence reflects that of what is in control. Then the ones of previous power was structured according the culture at the end of WWII.

How would one power shift the culture into a culture that is completely different from the previous?

 

Here a punch list of how to do it.

Deregulate immigration and make it easy for those from other countries to integrate into it. Mix a conglomerate of cultures into it. This will completely change a lot.

If the current family structure is hierarchy it patriarchal. Produce a movement to move it to matriarchal family structure.

To initiate the change shock the culture by producing a hippie movement and bombard the popular culture with drugs and socialy program them with musics that teaches the opposite mindset of the previous generations. (So you say you want a revolution.)

Infect the educational system with secular stance that is contrary to the current religious mindset. Teach a collection of beliefs to define the origin of humanity and life that is denies the position of the previous beliefs.

Popularize a belief system to replace the old belief system and ensure it is almost in all ways contradictory to the old. This is Atheism.

Utilize popular media to reflect the new mindset.

Train the new culture to ridicule the previous mindset.

 

There are other things but to make a long story short things are shifting on purpose. The controlling powers are feeding the modern culture their information strategically.

Religion is a tool to control the masses and will not be removed. It is just getting a new face.

 

Also make no bones about it. If the previous TPBP returns then their method of shifting the culture to the way they think will include violence. Past history has shown us this.

As far as Europe, it has already shifted. 

 

This post sums it all up very well. There are institutions dedicated to studying social structure and human psychology, for example the Tavistock Institute. So the whole culture is being shaped with this knowledge. What is going on today and the direction in which the civilization is going is well described in Huxley's and Orwell's books.

[Aquila King]

10 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

What is going on today and the direction in which the civilization is going is well described in Huxley's and Orwell's books.

Just recently got done reading through Orwell's 1984, and boy does it draw eerie parallels to today.

Always knew of it and the basic premise, yet never officially read it for myself until now.

 

Anyway, to tie this into the thread topic... (this is undoubtedly gonna receive some heat, but whatever) 

I found the concept of 'Newspeak' fascinating. I think the more that mainstream materialist scientists try to twist words ever in their favor is somewhat similar.

Quote

So you see, these pseudoskeptics hijack the term "skeptic" so that it can't be used against them. By calling themselves "skeptics", they cast themselves as  THE "skeptics" who question everything with critical thinking and doubt. And if you are a skeptic or critical thinker, then you will agree with them, so they hope.

 

Similarly, they've done the same with the terms "reason, rationality, logic, critical thinking, scientific" as well by hijacking them to fit their agenda, so that they support their agenda of discrediting anything related to paranormal, holistic or conspiratorial evidence.

 

In essence, what they've done is put themselves in a position of "ultimate authority" on reason, rationality, logic, critical thinking, etc. so that if you call yourself those things, then you must agree with them and their position. As such, being "reasonable and rational" means to AGREE with them. And "critical thinking" can only be used to reject what they reject, never to critique the pseudoskeptics themselves, according to their paradigm, for they are "the critiquers".

 

Thus, they've made it so that "critical thinking" and "skepticism" can't be used against them, because they are THE "critical thinkers and skeptics". It's a very sly form of mind control that obfuscates the terms and attempts to shield them from "criticism" by putting them in the highest position of criticism.

 

As such, the term "skeptic" now refers to the one who suppresses and attacks the questioner, rather than the questioner himself. In other words, the new "skeptic" is someone who debunks a "skeptic" by wearing the hat of the person they are out to debunk, in effect impersonating them! It's a highly deceptive form of role reversal that is sneaky and deceptive.

 

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/hijackingterms.php

 

[FFA]

1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

Just recently got done reading through Orwell's 1984, and boy does it draw eerie parallels to today.

Always knew of it and the basic premise, yet never officially read it for myself until now.

 

Anyway, to tie this into the thread topic... (this is undoubtedly gonna receive some heat, but whatever) 

I found the concept of 'Newspeak' fascinating. I think the more that mainstream materialist scientists try to twist words ever in their favor is somewhat similar.

 

 

Also, in the book Animal Farm the pigs and the farmers eventually look the same.

 

This makes me think of the transformers movie, The Last Knight. There is a scene where cybertron is going crash into earth and the scientist that discovered this is trying to convey his message to the authorities of how bad it is going to be. He ask the question (I'm paraphrasing.) Is physics going to save humanity or something spiritual? Guess what,  ultimately saved humanity in the movie? It wasn't physics.  

I say that because we are constantly bombarded by some in the know, however very few actually notice.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[FFA]

10 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

Our "leaders" hardly support anything to do with atheism, in fact it's 180 degrees in the other direction.

Are the ideas of atheism taught in our educational system (evolution)?

Are the ideas of the  contrary taught in our educational system (creationism)?

The "leaders" made that arangement. 

The truth is in the answers of the two questions.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[Illyrius]

49 minutes ago, FFA said:

Also, in the book Animal Farm the pigs and the farmers eventually look the same.

Without having a soul and with the teachings of social darwinism this process is completed a long time ago.

It's like a greek myth really. In a myth the pagan witch Circe turns people into pigs. In this anticulture we live in this is done by proPaganda. We are all declared to be monkeys.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Illyrius

[FFA]

21 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Without having a soul and with the teachings of social darwinism this process is completed a long time ago.

It's like a greek myth really. In a myth the pagan witch Circe turns people into pigs. In this anticulture we live in this is done by proPaganda. We are all declared to be monkeys.

Yes. The intent is to disconnct one personally with any God or the universe for that matter. Once that is achieved a persons destruction or pain has no meaning.

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[FFA]

23 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

The truth is our leaders have a massive bias toward religion. 

According to their propaganda. Go pick a science text book from your local high school and read it. 

This is the whole idea of the last few discussions. I offer you something tangible to look at and you offer me propaganda. The big difference between me and you is I don't buy propaganda.  

I would go find a up to date science text and see what is being taught to the nations children. 

Also notice your response. Listen to it.  It's a standard response and it's because you only know what your told. 

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[Illyrius]

The truth is that in some places remnants of adherence to particular religion are still present. As soon as majority of people begin to declare themselves as atheists (and we will not have to wait for that for too long) the politicians will turn to vehement atheists. Its just milking the votes.

[FFA]

13 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

The truth is that in some places remnants of adherence to particular religion are still present. As soon as majority of people begin to declare themselves as atheists (and we will not have to wait for that for too long) the politicians will turn to vehement atheists. Its just milking the votes.

Agreed It is all very well organized.

[Aquila King]

30 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

The truth is our leaders have a massive bias toward religion. 

Political leaders, yes. Scientific leaders, no.

[FFA]

18 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

Of course - and it should be taught....!  "Propaganda" my ass.  Propaganda is all that religious BS we have to wade through every day.

This kinda reminds me of post #87

Just curious. What kind of religious BS was you faced with today?

Who are "we"?

Edited March 24, 2018 by FFA

[Only_]

8 hours ago, FFA said:

Ah faith "Lets keep our fingers crossed." Why? Faith in What? Religion and the absence of it will always be here. It's too useful a social control mechanism. 

Everything that is like Christ is cherished.

[Illyrius]

3 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Just recently got done reading through Orwell's 1984, and boy does it draw eerie parallels to today.

It certainly does. Huxley's "Brave New World" is somewhat less bitter and sharp in a sense of some of the well articulated mechanisms of manipulation but still on the same point with its description of postmodernist era.

[GoldenWolf]

16 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Everything that is like Christ is cherished.

Or just a construct of peoples desires they project onto the "Christ One" and reflected back onto to his subjects.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Mystic Crusader

[khol]

20 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Well the demise of morals and sanity follows nicely the rise of atheism

I wanted you to know your the first person I have ever put on ignore. Your incredibly naive and arrogant in your comments. Pretentious. Do yourself a favour and get educated

[XenoFish]

8 minutes ago, khol said:

I wanted you to know your the first person I have ever put on ignore. Your incredibly naive and arrogant in your comments. Pretentious. Do yourself a favour and get educated

It wouldn't be so bad if he was civil about things. Instead of spewing hatred, remind me of myself when I first showed up on UM. Just anger that was readily pointed at anyone who didn't agree......I feel (dare I say hope) I've progressed. Maybe he'll do the same. I was terrible back then. 

[XenoFish]

(off topic)

I've got to be honest. I hate looking back at my early postings. I was a complete a-hole to a lot of people. And some think I'm bad now. lol

Still. There are a lot of good people here. They run the spectrum of beliefs or lack of. Give them an ear and you might learn something. Might progress as a person and let a lot of the bs go. If it wasn't for some of the folk here, I wouldn't be who I am now. Yes, I will admit that the help I received came from both the atheist and some of the believers, even this cranky old man who kicks me in the head now and again. (You know who you are). 

Maybe Illyirus will one day find his own middle ground......

[+joc]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

(off topic)

I've got to be honest. I hate looking back at my early postings. I was a complete a-hole to a lot of people. And some think I'm bad now. lol

Still. There are a lot of good people here. They run the spectrum of beliefs or lack of. Give them an ear and you might learn something. Might progress as a person and let a lot of the bs go. If it wasn't for some of the folk here, I wouldn't be who I am now. Yes, I will admit that the help I received came from both the atheist and some of the believers, even this cranky old man who kicks me in the head now and again. (You know who you are). 

Maybe Illyirus will one day find his own middle ground......

You are awesome xeno!  

[Will Due]

58 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

(off topic)

I've got to be honest. I hate looking back at my early postings. I was a complete a-hole to a lot of people. And some think I'm bad now. lol

Still. There are a lot of good people here. They run the spectrum of beliefs or lack of. Give them an ear and you might learn something. Might progress as a person and let a lot of the bs go. If it wasn't for some of the folk here, I wouldn't be who I am now. Yes, I will admit that the help I received came from both the atheist and some of the believers, even this cranky old man who kicks me in the head now and again. (You know who you are). 

Maybe Illyirus will one day find his own middle ground......

 

But what if the 'middle ground' is really quick sand, artfully covered up to make it look like it's a safe place to stand?

 

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

But what if the 'middle ground' is really quick sand, artfully covered up to make it look like it's a safe place to stand?

 

 

If you can not find you're own middle ground Will. Then you need to keep looking.