Dark_Grey Posted March 23, 2018 #1 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Trump to Consider Veto of Omnibus Bill Spoiler What is an "Omnibus Bill"? Think of an Omnibus Bill as a package deal for Government funding combining various topics and requests in to one big, fat piece of legislation. This legislation will set the budget for many things over the coming months, as the current bill will run out Friday, March 23 at midnight and the new bill will take us through September 30, the end of the fiscal year. Brief history of the current Omnibus BillView the current, proposed Omnibus Bill here (PDF) Why is this bill important? It's important not only to set a budget but because of what's included in the budget. Things like funding for the border wall are covered in this bill. Why is the veto of this bill controversial? There are two main thoughts here: 1) Trump threatens to veto the bill because it does not contain the full border wall funding he desires 2) Trump is taking advantage of the Democrats lack of empathy for Dreamers to hammer them in the public eye. Quote A stopgap spending measure is due to expire on March 23, but Democrats don’t have much appetite for using it as leverage to help an estimated 800,000 immigrants who came to the country illegally as children and now face deportation. Democrats cite a desire to pass the bill over having yet another Government shutdown. (Link) Trump, being staunchly against DACA previously, agreed with a proposal to make citizenship more attainable while also increasing border wall funding. Repub senators were not pleased. Quote A proposal favored by Trump to give Dreamers a pathway to citizenship, spend $25 billion on border security, reduce the weighting of family relationships in granting green cards and eliminate the visa lottery was soundly defeated. Sixty senators voted against that proposal. Lots going on here. Is Trump playing the parties against each other? What is his end-game? Edited March 23, 2018 by Dark_Grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 23, 2018 #2 Share Posted March 23, 2018 He signed it already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermai Posted March 23, 2018 #3 Share Posted March 23, 2018 He should [have] veto[ed] it. No one read the damn thing. Congress should be required to read the entirety of all legislation on the floor prior to passage. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 23, 2018 #4 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Invisig0th said: He should [have] veto[ed] it. No one read the damn thing. Congress should be required to read the entirety of all legislation on the floor prior to passage. The president too? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermai Posted March 23, 2018 #5 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Gromdor said: The president too? The President shouldn't be in the business of enacting or crafting legislation. That power is bestowed to the legislature, as the name implies. Our legislature, unfortunately, has betrayed us for the past century. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 23, 2018 #6 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Invisig0th said: The President shouldn't be in the business of enacting or crafting legislation. That power is bestowed to the legislature, as the name implies. Our legislature, unfortunately, has betrayed us for the past century. Then why the veto threat? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted March 23, 2018 #7 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Disgraceful. There should be greatly increased spending on public transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted March 23, 2018 Author #8 Share Posted March 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gromdor said: He signed it already. I'm trying to find a good link going over the most controversial parts of the bill. Critics seem split on whether this was a good move on Trump's part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermai Posted March 23, 2018 #9 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Gromdor said: Then why the veto threat? Are you asking me to explain the basic tenants of federalism and separation of powers to you? Yes, the executive branch has a check on the legislative branch. Yes, the executive should have knowledge of what he is proposing to veto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 23, 2018 #10 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Dark_Grey said: I'm trying to find a good link going over the most controversial parts of the bill. Critics seem split on whether this was a good move on Trump's part I'm indifferent to it. Mix of increased spending and kicking the can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 23, 2018 #11 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Invisig0th said: Are you asking me to explain the basic tenants of federalism and separation of powers to you? Yes, the executive branch has a check on the legislative branch. Yes, the executive should have knowledge of what he is proposing to veto. Nah, I agree with you. Just pointing out how reality diverges from the ideal though. The president does help craft it in so much as he can veto what he does not like. Presidents also don't read the entirety of the bills they sign either. He probably relies on the "cliff notes" version given to him by his advisors the same as most of the congressmen who weren't involved in writing the bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted March 23, 2018 Author #12 Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, Gromdor said: I'm indifferent to it. Mix of increased spending and kicking the can. That's what it seems like...much media finger pointing over a bill that may as well have been Obama's brain child. The two party system shafts America once again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 24, 2018 #13 Share Posted March 24, 2018 The Art of the Deal Here's a few things you should understand by now. Trump is a master of optics and messaging. He understands politics better than pretty much anyone on the planet. Certainly better than the pundits. Definitely better than the psychos on social media. Trump uses the politics to achieve tangible results. He intends to deliver because he actually believes in his message. They are not empty political promises. Trump knows how contracts work and how to massage the fine print. As an entrepreneur, Trump is well versed in the concept of "Things are what you call them". In business, you can make or lose a lot of money simply in the way that you define things. Was that a loan to the company? Was it an investment? Is that a business expense or compensation? Is that a salary or a shareholder disbursement? With all of that in mind, allow me to introduce to you HR 2810 which was signed into law by Trump in December. HR 2810 is the Defense Department Appropriation. Appropriations are done, department by department. Traditionally there are 12 of them. However, today they lumped them all together into one Omnibus bill which is causing all of the headaches. As an appropriation, it details how much money each department gets. Unless otherwise specified, the departments only spend on their own missions and within their own parameters. And they can't loan each other money. But, you see, HR 2810 was a bit different. There's language in there that gives the Pentagon expanded discretion as to how to spend their money AND allows them to use it for anything that the Pentagon defines as "National Security". Even if it overlaps another agency with its own appropriation. If the Department of Energy says that they need some tanks to protect the nuclear arsenal, but can't afford it, the Pentagon can buy some tanks. If Homeland Security says that they need some drones to look for terrorists along the Canadian border but can't afford it, the Pentagon can buy some drones. And if the Border Patrol says they need a wall along the Southern border but can't afford it...the Pentagon can build that Wall. Democrats caught this, calling it an "undemocratic, dead-of-night tactic", but it didn't get much press because Rep. Vicky Hartzler, in direct communication with Trump, proposed an amendment at the same time that would bar the Pentagon from spending any money for transgender troops. At the same time, of course, Trump was tweeting out how he was getting rid of transgenders. And then Mattis said, "no, we aren't" and then the people on CNN debated whether or not Trump had the power to do that. Is there chaos in the White House? Is Trump insane? Is Mattis going to be fired? What does Putin think of transgenders? Trump forced the Transgender issue into the limelight to distract from the financing of the wall whenever he wants. He knew that the media and the left's base can't resist a good anti-trans narrative. That's their catnip. The wall is still a divisive issue. And yes, it was a sly and shady move on the part of Trump, Ryan and McConnell. They aren't going to broadcast this to calm YOU down because they don't want to energize the kooks to go vote in November. WE need to be more level headed and educated about this stuff. Otherwise, we will fall apart and lose a lot. Just watch as the border wall comes together a lot faster and a lot "cheaper" than expected... -LEIGH SCOTT for Senate California 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 24, 2018 #14 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Our Lord saviour, Donald J Trump is a genius!!!! Build the wall!! Lock her up!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 25, 2018 #15 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Donald J Trump 4hrs ago Because of the $700 & $716 Billion Dollars gotten to rebuild our Military, many jobs are created and our Military is again rich. Building a great Border Wall, with drugs (poison) and enemy combatants pouring into our Country, is all about National Defense. Build WALL through M! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 25, 2018 #16 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) Here's how this goes. Monday, Trump starts building the wall. By Wednesday or so, the idea that Trump is building the real wall with Pentagon money will reach critical mass. On Thursday, the topic will come up in the Press Briefing and Sanders will say "Yes, this is national security, the President has been very clear" A week from Monday, a left wing group will file for an injunction. A judge in Hawaii or California will say it's unconstitutional. With the wall in California halted, Trump will begin a section in Texas. Another lawsuit will be filed, but that will be tossed out because the person suing doesn't have standing. The State of California will join the suit against the wall. That original judgement now has teeth because California DOES have standing. You will recall however, that with the whole Travel Ban, Trump lost one of the rounds because the judge said that "Even if the language isn't a Muslim ban, he sold it as a Muslim ban so that's what it is, and that's unconstitutional." So, if the claim is that he is misappropriating funds from the Defense Department, the fact that they have said 100 million times over the last several months that it's a "National Security Issue" should throw their own argument back in their face. It will probably go to the Supreme Court over the California section of the wall (which is why he STARTED there, to have them unload their arsenal while work continued elsewhere). The Supreme Court will do a partisan split and determine that since Congress doesn't send an item by item appropriation for each thing, but will sometimes just give a lump some to accomplish a goal, it is the right of the Executive to determine the best way to accomplish what Congress says it wants. California vs. Trump will be a landmark case because it will greatly expand the power of the Presidency on a Constitutional level as well as force Congress to be HONEST about things. If the stated goal of $500 million to Planned Parenthood is "women's health" I think President Trump can find a better vendor. -Leigh Scott... Sat. March 24, 2018 (via Facebook) Edited March 25, 2018 by acidhead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 25, 2018 #17 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted March 25, 2018 #18 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 24/03/2018 at 4:53 AM, acidhead said: Our Lord saviour, Donald J Trump is a genius!!!! Build the wall!! Lock her up!!! Okay, at this point you've gotta be straight up trolling. Your previous post was just as ridiculous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 25, 2018 #19 Share Posted March 25, 2018 47 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: Okay, at this point you've gotta be straight up trolling. Your previous post was just as ridiculous. Nope. Border wall construction begins tomorrow with full funding!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 26, 2018 #20 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The wall construction begins tomorrow. This is what happens when Congress doesn't read the Bill. It's all in the language. Trump is a business man. A contract is a contract. Let it go to the supreme Court. Trump already did that with the so-called Muslim ban. The wall is going to be built. It starts tomorrow. Monday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 26, 2018 #21 Share Posted March 26, 2018 11 hours ago, acidhead said: LOL sure, take money from the military industrial complex, see how that works out for ya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 26, 2018 #22 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Wake up America. $1.3Trillion. How much further into debt can we possibly allow these people to put us? Vote every single one out of office in favor of financial conservatives. This cannot go on. It's not sustainable. They are ruining our future for their own power based ego trips. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted March 26, 2018 Author #23 Share Posted March 26, 2018 12 hours ago, acidhead said: The wall construction begins tomorrow. This is what happens when Congress doesn't read the Bill. It's all in the language. Is that what happened here? Trump got his funding by taking advantage of Congress' lazy attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 26, 2018 #24 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Is that what happened here? Trump got his funding by taking advantage of Congress' lazy attitude? http://theweek.com/speedreads/763069/trump-proposes-making-border-wall-military-project-because-pentagon-lot-money More or less he said that thanks to him the Pentagon has tons of money it didn't really need and he should use it to build the wall. This link says he isn't building the new wall though: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fact-check-trump-says-spending-bill-starts-work-his-border-n859561 Edited March 26, 2018 by Gromdor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 26, 2018 #25 Share Posted March 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Gromdor said: This link says he isn't building the new wall though: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fact-check-trump-says-spending-bill-starts-work-his-border-n859561 Ill bet dollars to donuts that within days Trump tweets something along the lines of " despite having the funding the democrats are blocking construction of my wall" ....and the trumpians will eat it hook line and sinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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