stereologist Posted March 28, 2018 #51 Share Posted March 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, Fila said: This is what I am trying to sort out via PM. I think we just have different investigating techniques and requirements. Is this what ChrLzs calls "handwaving"? Thank you for the feedback. I will look at the formula again.., but would appreciate an explanation. What's surprising to me.., is the fact that so many people here seem to have seen this or know about all it.., yet cannot provide any examples or information. I've never seen contrails like this before. Although some here claim its obvious and to stop looking into it.., they have failed to provide a sufficient example. As usual.., I am all for debunking these but my standard operating procedure is more rigorous and strict. If I was to write a report for university stating this was a plane.., my assessor would ask these types of questions. if its a plane.., then why is the contrail dark? How can you tell its a contrail and not smoke? If I just get angry and say "OMG, its obvious. Can't you see? Why would you ask such stupid questions. Shadows and the sunlight.., at least its obvious to me." etc etc.., then I think they would just shake their head at me.., offer no advice and give me a FAIL. No. That is not what ChrLzs calls hand waving. I won't explain. It is trivial to figure out but if it is not obvious immediately you are unlikely to ever figure it out. Why bother with this video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted March 28, 2018 #52 Share Posted March 28, 2018 why bother indeed. No-one will make this horse drink, obviously... Anyone left supporting Fila's ignorant 'claims'? Speak now (and be specific).. or this trainwreck should be closed - all it does is showcase one person's ignorance of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #53 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ChrLzs said: Anyone left supporting Fila's ignorant 'claims'? Speak now (and be specific).. or this trainwreck should be closed - all it does is showcase one person's ignorance of the topic. It appears you are trying to incite mob mentality in the hopes to stop me investigating. An interesting tactic, Why this upsets you is beyond my comprehension. I would suggest not clicking this link.., as opposed to censoring the internet for everybody. Edited March 29, 2018 by Fila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted March 29, 2018 #54 Share Posted March 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, Fila said: Why this upsets you is beyond my comprehension. yep.. seems it is= i'd suggest you start looking into how you comprehend things because guess what?: there could be a chance you're wrong.. how's that for ya? think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #55 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, stereologist said: No. That is not what ChrLzs calls hand waving. I won't explain. It is trivial to figure out but if it is not obvious immediately you are unlikely to ever figure it out. Why bother with this video? You haven't been able to explain anything thus far. You keep claiming I am wrong and how its so obvious it is I am wrong.., but refuse to tell me how. I can only see this as a throw off tactic. This may be why you won't PM me either. Because these tactics only work in a public environment and not 1 on 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #56 Share Posted March 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Dejarma said: yep.. seems it is= i'd suggest you start looking into how you comprehend things because guess what?: there could be a chance you're wrong.. how's that for ya? think about it I am very open to being wrong. I like learning new things. Just point out when I am wrong.., and explain why.., showing the correct answer. Is this an unreasonable request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted March 29, 2018 #57 Share Posted March 29, 2018 50 minutes ago, Fila said: You haven't been able to explain anything thus far. What absolute HOGWASH. Let's be very specific, and give one blatant example out of many - the last thing I went through was in answer to your silly question "Please show me how big a Jet's contrail can be", and you completely ignored the logic explaining why it's a stupid question, and even also ignored the post where I showed an example of contrails spreading widely to back up my comments about them generally being limited to about 2-5 times the aircraft's wingspan, before they might spread much more widely due to atmospherics or unusually large wingtip vortices. Here's that link again: This time, LOOK AT IT. Address what you see - that's an example of a quite wide contrail of about 3 times the width of the aircraft. It answers your question as exactly as is possible. THEN address what I said about contrails spreading like clouds do... Also, note the shadowing effect - go back to the early part of the video and note the effect - look at all familiar? 50 minutes ago, Fila said: You keep claiming I am wrong and how its so obvious it is I am wrong.., but refuse to tell me how. We spend MUCH time telling you how, so you are a liar and the proof is above - we told you stuff and answered your questions, and you rudely ignored it. All to avoid admitting being wrong, or not knowing enough, I suspect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimalists Posted March 29, 2018 #58 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Contrails can be black...I really do not know what all the fuss is about it....A plane can produce black contrails when the combustion in the flame tube is incomplete...The smoke that results is unburnt carbon coming from the engine. Though this is mostly seen in older aircraft and not the more efficient ones flying today. Below is a link that explains this better than I can: https://www.metabunk.org/explained-dark-contrails-behind-bright-planes.t5957/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 29, 2018 #59 Share Posted March 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Fila said: You haven't been able to explain anything thus far. You keep claiming I am wrong and how its so obvious it is I am wrong.., but refuse to tell me how. I can only see this as a throw off tactic. This may be why you won't PM me either. Because these tactics only work in a public environment and not 1 on 1. I’ve explained so many things and yet you continue to pretend that has not happened. Why do you do that? Do you think you are funny? Do you have an inability to learn even basic issues? You claim to be at university but seem to be as ignorant after hundreds of posts as you were to begin with. As we see here you are incapable of determining what is wrong with this formula. Maybe what you need to do is to start using the formula. Here is what you do in middle school when you start to learn about algebra and variables. 1. You define each variable. 2. You combine those variables into a formula. 3. You insert values into the formula including units of measure. 4. You compute the value of the formula and reduce the units of measure to report a finding. Suppose the distance is 10 miles to the plane forming the contrail. Show us the steps above and more detail if you choose to do that. I’m not going to PM you because I don’t care to. Now get along with your formula and learn what your problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 29, 2018 #60 Share Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Alien Origins said: Contrails can be black...I really do not know what all the fuss is about it....A plane can produce black contrails when the combustion in the flame tube is incomplete...The smoke that results is unburnt carbon coming from the engine. Though this is mostly seen in older aircraft and not the more efficient ones flying today. Below is a link that explains this better than I can: https://www.metabunk.org/explained-dark-contrails-behind-bright-planes.t5957/ On one of my flights back from Europe my plane followed a large number of dark contrails. It was clear that this was a common path taken by a number of flights that day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #61 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Alien Origins said: Contrails can be black...I really do not know what all the fuss is about it....A plane can produce black contrails when the combustion in the flame tube is incomplete...The smoke that results is unburnt carbon coming from the engine. Though this is mostly seen in older aircraft and not the more efficient ones flying today. Below is a link that explains this better than I can: https://www.metabunk.org/explained-dark-contrails-behind-bright-planes.t5957/ Thank you for the information. I guess the reason people are interested.., is because its not normal to see.., and being an inquisitive species.., we tend to ask why? I have never seen a black contrail.., and it would appear that many other haven't either. This is why people are interested in why and how it happens. I did read the link provided..., but still cannot see anything even close to what was filmed. Although these contrails do look "dark" the colour is not as black as the one being discussed. I still have not seen an example that matches the black contrails in the video. Edited March 29, 2018 by Fila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #62 Share Posted March 29, 2018 16 hours ago, ChrLzs said: What absolute HOGWASH. Let's be very specific, and give one blatant example out of many - the last thing I went through was in answer to your silly question "Please show me how big a Jet's contrail can be", and you completely ignored the logic explaining why it's a stupid question, and even also ignored the post where I showed an example of contrails spreading widely to back up my comments about them generally being limited to about 2-5 times the aircraft's wingspan, before they might spread much more widely due to atmospherics or unusually large wingtip vortices. Here's that link again: This time, LOOK AT IT. Address what you see - that's an example of a quite wide contrail of about 3 times the width of the aircraft. It answers your question as exactly as is possible. THEN address what I said about contrails spreading like clouds do... Also, note the shadowing effect - go back to the early part of the video and note the effect - look at all familiar? We spend MUCH time telling you how, so you are a liar and the proof is above - we told you stuff and answered your questions, and you rudely ignored it. All to avoid admitting being wrong, or not knowing enough, I suspect. Jebus dude. Calm down. I asked how big a contrail can be. This could be used as a reference. You haven't actually provided an answer.., just anger and a video. You didn't mention anything about 2 - 5 times the size of a plane until now.., so calm down. Thank you for the info.., but can you please provide details as to how you came to the conclusion that contrails can be 5 times wider than a plane. I just cannot rely on someone's word.., sorry. I understand older contrails will spread out over time.., but I am interested in real time LIVE contrails from a plane. Hope you can have a relaxed weekend bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 29, 2018 #63 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, stereologist said: I’ve explained so many things and yet you continue to pretend that has not happened. Why do you do that? Do you think you are funny? Do you have an inability to learn even basic issues? You claim to be at university but seem to be as ignorant after hundreds of posts as you were to begin with. As we see here you are incapable of determining what is wrong with this formula. Maybe what you need to do is to start using the formula. Here is what you do in middle school when you start to learn about algebra and variables. 1. You define each variable. 2. You combine those variables into a formula. 3. You insert values into the formula including units of measure. 4. You compute the value of the formula and reduce the units of measure to report a finding. Suppose the distance is 10 miles to the plane forming the contrail. Show us the steps above and more detail if you choose to do that. I’m not going to PM you because I don’t care to. Now get along with your formula and learn what your problem is. Its not my formula. https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/12434/how-do-i-calculate-the-distance-of-an-object-in-a-photo You won't PM me because you don't care to? Or.., you know that your tactics only work in a public environment. There is no difference in a public post.., and a PM. Except there is no audience. Edited March 29, 2018 by Fila 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adampadum123 Posted March 30, 2018 #64 Share Posted March 30, 2018 if it was a missile why would the chemical trail be black? And I wonder if anyone’s just made a huge firework and fired it off for the fun of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adampadum123 Posted March 30, 2018 #65 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Shouldn’t air traffic control have informed pilots about the black smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 30, 2018 #66 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, ChrLzs said: Here's that link again: This time, LOOK AT IT. This is called a "self shadow". Where one contrail is casting a shadow onto another contrail. However.., this only makes the back contrail dark.., and we still see the white contrail in front creating the shadow. Compared to.... Edited March 30, 2018 by Fila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 30, 2018 #67 Share Posted March 30, 2018 13 hours ago, Fila said: Its not my formula. https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/12434/how-do-i-calculate-the-distance-of-an-object-in-a-photo You won't PM me because you don't care to? Or.., you know that your tactics only work in a public environment. There is no difference in a public post.., and a PM. Except there is no audience. Calm down. Calm down. Stop your tantrums and move forward. Please apply the formula. Then you will see what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerix Posted March 30, 2018 #68 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Want to know how to tell this video is a hoax? 1) The people "recording" it are not alerting other people in the plane to look. They aren't even notifying cabin crew. 2) The last time I was in a plane that loud, it was a C-130, and I was getting ready to jump out of it. Looks like someone took some video of the outside of a plane, then later added sound and some CGI to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimalists Posted March 30, 2018 #69 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If you were in a C-130 jumping out of it was the best option! I only ever flew on one and never agian....Like the C-141 better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZDZ Posted March 30, 2018 #70 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 3:30 PM, Fila said: Hi AZDZ. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the contrail being black. HI Fila. Look at the left leading edge of the following img you posted, see the bright edge? The plume is being back-lit from the out of frame Sun to the left. The shadow side is facing us hence the dark appearance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fila Posted March 31, 2018 #71 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, AZDZ said: HI Fila. Look at the left leading edge of the following img you posted, see the bright edge? The plume is being back-lit from the out of frame Sun to the left. The shadow side is facing us hence the dark appearance. Hi AZDZ, nice to see you again. That is what I assumed after looking into contrails.., but then I think Stereologist smashed it out the park when he said this... On 3/27/2018 at 2:44 AM, stereologist said: The contrail looks like it is in a shadow. That shadow simply means that there is a cloud between the Sun and the object. It is 4:30PM local time. Sunset in Istanbul was around 7:17. The Sun was at it's high point for the day at 1:11. It reached an elevation of 49 degrees above the horizon at that time. The sun was only at half that at the time of the video or 25 degrees above the horizon. You can kinda see in this picture that the sun is hitting the passenger plane from it's left, and casts a small shadow on the right edge of the plane where they are filming. I just can't see how a shadow was cast onto this contrail. Even then,I have never seen a contrail that dark. Edited March 31, 2018 by Fila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now