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Captain Risky

Pilots See The Same UFO Pass Their planes

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Captain Risky

Two Airline Pilots Report Seeing The Same UFO Pass Their Planes

A pair of airline pilots traveling over Arizona claim they were passed by a UFO while flying at over 30,000 feet in the air. Both planes reported the sighting and now the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has released a radio broadcast of the out-of-this-world incident.

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preacherman76

Its been kind of a slow trickle, but the media has been pretty consistent lately putting out these stories. I love it.  

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I'mConvinced

I couldn't find a link to the actual recordings. Maybe I missed it? 

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L.A.T.1961

The radio recording is here - 

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/pilots-for-american-airlines-and-phoenix-air-reported-a-ufo-over-arizona-10218181

Transcript of recording -

"Was anybody above us that passed us like 30 seconds ago?" a Phoenix Air Group pilot flying a Learjet at 37,000 feet asked an air traffic controller at about 3:30 p.m. on February 24.

FAA in Albuquerque alerts American Airlines Flight 1095 to keep an eye out for an object in the sky as they fly towards San Diego. Less than a minute after the warning, Flight 1095’s pilot radios in that his plane was just passed by the UFO.

“Yeah, something just passed over us,” the pilot reported. “I don’t know what it was, but it was at least two-three thousand feet above us. Yeah, it passed right over the top of us.”

The pilots couldn’t determine if the unidentified object was hovering or actually flying but the American Airlines pilot can be heard saying the UFO had a “big reflection” and doubted it was a Google balloon.

“Other than the brief conversation between two aircraft, the controller was unable to verify that any other aircraft was in the area,” the FAA’s Lynn Lunsford told the New Times. 

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The Narcisse

It's the "they are not human" mystery voicemail slowly coming true.

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I'mConvinced
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Thanks for that.  Scant details, can anyone work out where these planes were at the time, heading etc. Might it be possible using this to work out if this thing was moving or stationary? Might it also give a clue to its speed?

I'd look into myself but:

1) I'm lazy

2) It sounds difficult and I'd like someone else to do it.

Not the greatest reasons but at least truthful :lol:.

Edited by I'mConvinced
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L.A.T.1961
15 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Thanks for that.  Scant details, can anyone work out where these planes were at the time, heading etc. Might it be possible using this to work out if this thing was moving or stationary? Might it also give a clue to its speed?

I'd look into myself but:

1) I'm lazy

2) It sounds difficult and I'd like someone else to do it.

Not the greatest reasons but at least truthful :lol:.

From the transcript the object was above the first jet who was at 37,000ft. Air traffic asked second aircraft to look out for something in the next 15 miles, if we assume that's the distance between the two aircraft then the second pilot spotted the object 45 sec later, add 30 sec delay for first pilot to contact air traffic, so 75 sec to do 15 miles. If my math is right ? that is a closing speed of 720 mph. The airliner would have been likely moving at 350 -400 mph. Which makes the objects speed similar to the airliner in the opposite direction.   

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I'mConvinced
21 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

From the transcript the object was above the first jet who was at 37,000ft. Air traffic asked second aircraft to look out for something in the next 15 miles, if we assume that's the distance between the two aircraft then the second pilot spotted the object 45 sec later, add 30 sec delay for first pilot to contact air traffic, so 75 sec to do 15 miles. If my math is right ? that is a closing speed of 720 mph. The airliner would have been likely moving at 350 -400 mph. Which makes the objects speed similar to the airliner in the opposite direction.   

So not out of the realms of a military aircraft then?

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L.A.T.1961
11 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

So not out of the realms of a military aircraft then?

It could quite easily be an aircraft from the speed and altitude. The odd part of the story is no radar contact and both sets of crew could not identify it.

FAA mid-states public affairs manager said. "We have a close working relationship with a number of other agencies and safely handle military aircraft and civilian aircraft of all types in that area every day, including high-altitude weather balloons." 

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I'mConvinced
16 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The odd part of the story is no radar contact and both sets of crew could not identify it

Wouldn't any secret prototype aircraft most likely use stealth tech to avoid radar detectors? 

I know it's not perfect and requires that a combination of techniques are used but I wonder how easy it is to confound a commercial radar system?

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Merc14
1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

Wouldn't any secret prototype aircraft most likely use stealth tech to avoid radar detectors? 

I know it's not perfect and requires that a combination of techniques are used but I wonder how easy it is to confound a commercial radar system?

Stealh aircraft generally have reflectors onboard while operating in civilian airspace and at that altitude would be flying IFR with the ATC.   This sounds like a balloon of some kind that maybe lost its radar reflector or never had one.

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L.A.T.1961
1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

Wouldn't any secret prototype aircraft most likely use stealth tech to avoid radar detectors? 

I know it's not perfect and requires that a combination of techniques are used but I wonder how easy it is to confound a commercial radar system?

I should think the latest stealth tech would be very good at avoiding radar and that commercial radar might not be as good as that used by the military.

If you can hide from a military system a commercial radar system would have to be at a disadvantage looking for the same stealth jet.  

Merc's info on reflectors above is interesting, this should allow radar to see aircraft using them. I would think they would also use transponders to identify themselves to air traffic control. 

Presumably there were no reflectors or transponders used by this 'unknown'  

 

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Merc14
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I should think the latest stealth tech would be very good at avoiding radar and that commercial radar might not be as good as that used by the military.

If you can hide from a military system a commercial radar system would have to be at a disadvantage looking for the same stealth jet.  

Merc's info on reflectors above is interesting, this should allow radar to see aircraft using them. I would think they would also use transponders to identify themselves to air traffic control. 

Presumably there were no reflectors or transponders used by this 'unknown'  

 

If they were operating in the airways or controlled airspace, as is assumed from the pilot reports, then they would be under ATC control.  The SR-71 and U-2 actually flew above controlled airspace (altitudes 18,000'-60,000' or flight level 180-600).and so didn't talk to ATC until descending into controlled airspace.  

Edited by Merc14
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Fila
Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2018 at 5:59 AM, Merc14 said:

If they were operating in the airways or controlled airspace, as is assumed from the pilot reports, then they would be under ATC control.  The SR-71 and U-2 actually flew above controlled airspace (altitudes 18,000'-60,000' or flight level 180-600).and so didn't talk to ATC until descending into controlled airspace.  

Is that true? if so.., very cool. Perhaps the military pilots slightly deviated from their altitude.., low enough for the commercial pilots to get a good scare.

An altimeter cannot actually determine altitude. It can only determine pressure (technically local static pressure compared to a reference pressure). It converts this pressure to an altitude using a calibrated non-linear scale. To illustrate the point, look at this map of 500 mb heights:

CbYKc.gif

500 mb correlates to 5500 m or 18,000 ft in a standard atmosphere. In a real atmosphere this height varies and is not actually level. An airplane flying "level" at FL180 from LAX to NYC last night will have actually descended almost 300 m while indicating a constant altitude. These deviations in true altitude from indicated altitude are acceptable, however, since they effect everyone equally in the same locality and separation is maintained. Although a 300 meter deviation isn't much over that distance.

 SOURCE: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/13204/what-is-the-difference-between-flight-level-and-altitude

Edited by Fila
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Merc14
5 hours ago, Fila said:

Is that true? if so.., very cool. Perhaps the military pilots slightly deviated from their altitude.., low enough for the commercial pilots to get a good scare.

An altimeter cannot actually determine altitude. It can only determine pressure (technically local static pressure compared to a reference pressure). It converts this pressure to an altitude using a calibrated non-linear scale. To illustrate the point, look at this map of 500 mb heights:

CbYKc.gif

500 mb correlates to 5500 m or 18,000 ft in a standard atmosphere. In a real atmosphere this height varies and is not actually level. An airplane flying "level" at FL180 from LAX to NYC last night will have actually descended almost 300 m while indicating a constant altitude. These deviations in true altitude from indicated altitude are acceptable, however, since they effect everyone equally in the same locality and separation is maintained. Although a 300 meter deviation isn't much over that distance.

 SOURCE: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/13204/what-is-the-difference-between-flight-level-and-altitude

When flying there are different rules depending on your altitude and or flight plan/clearance.  You have VFR (Visual Flight Rules) air space and IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) air space.  Anything above 18,000' is IFR air space no matter what and under ATC control, also, you set your altimeter to 29.92, which is standard pressure, and report altitude from that "pressure" regardless of what the real air pressure is.  Once you ascend past 60,000' you are under no control as no normal aircraft can fly up there.  Also, there are restricted air spaces all over the country and out over the oceans that are under military control and a set of very different rules.  The western desert is full of them.  That is where the military war games at all altitudes and air speeds.

If this was a military aircraft flying uncontrolled in controlled air space then it was violating regulations.  Not saying it wasn't as I have no idea, but an "escaped" balloon seems the most likely explanation and an alien spacecraft the least likely with a cowboy military jet somewhere in the middle.  Take your pick.

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Fila
7 hours ago, Merc14 said:

If this was a military aircraft flying uncontrolled in controlled air space then it was violating regulations.  Not saying it wasn't as I have no idea, but an "escaped" balloon seems the most likely explanation and an alien spacecraft the least likely with a cowboy military jet somewhere in the middle.  Take your pick.

I like to imagine some kind of new energy source.., which is probably in between the ETH, and a military jet theory.

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Merc14
2 hours ago, Fila said:

I like to imagine some kind of new energy source.., which is probably in between the ETH, and a military jet theory.

I like to imagine that too but isn't it more likely that they saw a balloon than some super-ship with a new energy source that the pilots couldn't even tell whether it was moving or not?

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GlitterRose

Isn't this the same thing I saw before?

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Fila
9 hours ago, Merc14 said:

I like to imagine that too but isn't it more likely that they saw a balloon than some super-ship with a new energy source that the pilots couldn't even tell whether it was moving or not?

Yes, you are right. I think this is a fruitless effort. At best, its just going to be another unidentified object. We'll let MUFON know, they will love it. lol.

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Fila said:

Yes, you are right. I think this is a fruitless effort. At best, its just going to be another unidentified object. We'll let MUFON know, they will love it. lol.

Yeah, we will never know and I think we will be seeing a lot more of these unknowns as the skies get ever more crowded with all kinds of odd looking new flying devices.  Stealth aircraft, hybrid blimps and dirigibles, drones both military and ccivilian, balloons, supersonic passenger jets, etc. 

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seanjo

Arizona, near Nevada, where area 51 is, the experimental aircraft test base?

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Hammerclaw

Two planes passed same weather balloon?

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Merc14
13 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Two planes passed same weather balloon?

Why not?  If it blew into a busy airway then it is likely multiple aircraft would see a brightly lighted ballon passing slowly through at the primary flight alltitude.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Why not?  If it blew into a busy airway then it is likely multiple aircraft would see a brightly lighted ballon passing slowly through at the primary flight alltitude.

It just came to mind, remembering an account of a fighter pilot's encounter with a weather balloon in Rupert's book Project Blue Book. It's hard to gauge the speed of a slow moving object met head on if you're passing it, really fast.

 

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Merc14
14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It just came to mind, remembering an account of a fighter pilot's encounter with a weather balloon in Rupert's book Project Blue Book. It's hard to gauge the speed of a slow moving object met head on if you're passing it, really fast.

Absolutely, without a radar lock it is a wild **** guess at best but the fastest it could possibly be moving is the speed of the jet stream at that altitude and while that varies greatly it averages around 100 knots, although I have seen it blowing much faster.  Weather balloon was a guess on my part, though, as I have no idea what they were seeing, no one does and as you said, speed is hard to determine.

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