Poll: Majority Support Medicare-For-All

[Aquila King]

Quote

Medicare-for-all Proposals

While many want Democrats in Congress to focus on improving the way the ACA is working rather than trying to pass a national health care plan, there is support for such a proposal. This month’s Kaiser Health Tracking Poll finds six in ten (59 percent) favor a national health plan, or Medicare-for-all, in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan. Support for such a proposal increases when framed as an option for anyone who wants it; three-fourths of the public favor a national Medicare-for-all plan open to anyone who wants it, but would allow people who currently have other forms of coverage to keep the coverage they already have.

The majority of Democrats and independents support both of these Medicare-for-all proposals. On the other hand, one-third (36 percent) of Republicans support having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan, but support increases to 64 percent when asked about a national Medicare-for-all plan open to anyone who wants it, but would allow people to keep the coverage they already have. It is unclear how support levels would fare once each of these proposals became part of the larger public debate on health care in this country. Prior Kaiser Family Foundation surveys have found the public’s attitudes can be quite malleable, and some people could be convinced to change their position after hearing typical pro and con arguments that might come up in a national debate.²

https://www.kff.org/health-costs/poll-finding/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-march-2018-prescription-drug-pricing-medicare-for-all-proposals/

 

[preacherman76]

I guess the first thing we gotta sort out is who runs Kaiser, and why we should believe their poll. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't be believed Im just saying, ya know, polls

 

Also I think it would be hard to get a good poll reading on this. The details haven't been in the spot light for people to research and really understand what it would mean. Until you have for sure real polls, after some exposure, then we could probably get a accurate %.

That being said, I really wish the public could see what true free market capitalism would do for health care in this country, before they went all commy about it. Most have no idea the cost of health care in this country is a direct result of government intervention to begin with.

[preacherman76]

Oh the light blue stats are really uniformed. If enough people moved to medicare it would change the landscape of the private industry dramatically. I highly doubt most would be able to "keep what they have".

[travelnjones]

Kaiser is probably not the group you want to model anything on.  For profit non profit snake in the grass bs.   They are institutionalizing bad medical service and abuse their employees.  My God there is even tapes of Nixon talking favorably about Kaiser.

I have worked for them and was born in one of their hospitals (mom and I almost died).  no thanks

 

[Aquila King]

I'm always so amazed when I hear Americans say things like: "healthcare is a privilege, not a right."

Like, how do you reach a point in your life where you think people deserve to die because they can't afford healthcare?

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL **** IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

[Michelle]

13 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Like, how do you reach a point in your life where you think people deserve to die because they can't afford healthcare?

Because they don't unless they choose not to accept free health care. My uncle didn't have a dime to his name when it was discovered he had cancer at the local free health clinic. He received the same care as anyone with full health insurance when he was admitted to the hospital. Unfortunately, he waited until it had progressed too far before he finally went to the clinic and there wasn't much that could be done. They did try though and were very kind to him and the family.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Michelle

[+DieChecker]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:27 PM, preacherman76 said:

I guess the first thing we gotta sort out is who runs Kaiser, and why we should believe their poll. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't be believed Im just saying, ya know, polls

That is the first thing I thought too. Kind of like that 95% Drudge Poll regarding firing Mueller. Where the poll comes from highly affects if it is bias, or trustworthy.

Myself, I don't see the issue with allowing Medicare to expand to be eligible for everyone. I'd never, ever, ever, ever use it myself, but I know some people who'd have no choice and so they'd use it.

The problem as I see it is that with Medicare the State you live in has to foot a bunch of the bill, not just the FedGov. So, in poor states, either the state is going to financially suffer in other areas, have to raise taxes, or healthcare there is going to suck. Thus, the care provided isn't going to be equal across the US, and will depend greatly on where you live, and how much your state will spend on you.

I'd never use it, because I know some people who've had to use the VA system, and that has left me with no confidence in the FedGov. Also I've known people on Medicare who, if they had regular insurance, could have been seen in days, but instead had to wait weeks. IMHO, it is cheaper, but that means that you become the last to be seen, and the least to be cared about, in our for-BIG-profit healthcare industry.

[+DieChecker]

15 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I'm always so amazed when I hear Americans say things like: "healthcare is a privilege, not a right."

Like, how do you reach a point in your life where you think people deserve to die because they can't afford healthcare?

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL **** IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

They don't "deserve" to die. But it is the same as having a job, and a place to live, and food. Food isn't free. A job isn't handed to you. A place to live isn't free, or handed to you. 

Why wouldn't someone just go get a job that gives them healthcare? If they are disabled, or otherwise unable to work, there are programs for that. Even most Fast Food jobs come with healthcare.

I had a friend who worked as a Contractor. He didn't get healthcare, but he was paid 25% more then a salary worker, so he could buy his own health insurance. He chose to not buy the insurance and instead kept the money. I don't see a problem with that... It was his choice.

People who are on State/FedGov aid should be covered I think, as they are basically wards of the State. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by DieChecker

[Lilly]

If everything is just given for free a large number of people simply will not work. This severely burdens those who do work as they are the ones paying for the needs of those who won't work. Now, carrying the needs of the disabled, the very old and the very young is absolutely something a civilized society should do. Any system you employ has to take into account human nature or it's doomed to failure. Most people will gladly help those in true need, but aren't so happy to help those who refuse to work and help themselves. 

So, the option of 'do nothing and get everything for free' verses the option of  'work hard but pay a huge chunk in taxes' (to support those who refuse to work) becomes more and more untenable as time goes on. IMO health insurance needs to become more competitive (not less so) so that people will have more choices and the price will be driven down to a more reasonable level.

A more productive economy with growth and more available jobs (that offer workers healthcare benefits) is what we seriously need to pursue. Also, our society needs re-think the educational system, we need more technical/vocational options for High School and College students. This way people will be prepared with employable skills so that they can get better jobs that have health insurance benefits.

[preacherman76]

17 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I'm always so amazed when I hear Americans say things like: "healthcare is a privilege, not a right."

Like, how do you reach a point in your life where you think people deserve to die because they can't afford healthcare?

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL **** IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

There is nothing wrong with us. Most of us just cant afford to give the government half our money. You guys never really want to get into the heart of what you are talking about. You don't want to talk about what happens when companies decide its no longer worth doing business here cause you want to rob them blind. You don't want to talk about the fact that people just cant afford to give that much money to government. We understand that while everyone having coverage would be great, what you are proposing would do more harm then good.

[Aquila King]

6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

They don't "deserve" to die. But it is the same as having a job, and a place to live, and food. Food isn't free. A job isn't handed to you. A place to live isn't free, or handed to you. 

Why wouldn't someone just go get a job that gives them healthcare? If they are disabled, or otherwise unable to work, there are programs for that. Even most Fast Food jobs come with healthcare.

I had a friend who worked as a Contractor. He didn't get healthcare, but he was paid 25% more then a salary worker, so he could buy his own health insurance. He chose to not buy the insurance and instead kept the money. I don't see a problem with that... It was his choice.

People who are on State/FedGov aid should be covered I think, as they are basically wards of the State. 

You're not accounting for the disabled, those who are currently laid off, those who do have a job but their specific job doesn't provide insurance, those who work just below the official full-time pay schedule (as many minimum wage jobs do) just so their employer doesn't have to provide healthcare benefits, those who don't make enough to pay money towards deductibles, regular co-pays, and medicine, etc. etc.

It's simple and easy to just say "they should just get a job". That's the lazy man's way of answering it, while ignoring the numerous other variables that contribute to our current public health crisis.

6 hours ago, Lilly said:

If everything is just given for free a large number of people simply will not work.

The problem with your logic here is that literally every other modern nation on the face of the Earth provides some form of single-payer healthcare. Yet you never hear of mass numbers of people in those countries sitting back not working now do you?

I swear, it's like you people never look outside of your own bubble here in the US.

5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

There is nothing wrong with us. Most of us just cant afford to give the government half our money.

1) "Half your money" is an exaggeration.

2) The overwhelming vast majority of increased taxes would be placed on the super-rich, so it wouldn't affect you hardly at all.

3) By eliminating insurance premiums, co-pays for doctor visits, and the cost of prescription medication, most people would actually save more money to make up any difference in increased taxes, so this idea that any tax increases placed on you would somehow put you in a financial hole is utter nonsense.

4) I'd say most of you have never even read Bernie Sanders' actual economic plan for implementing Medicare-for-All, and don't care to. Your minds are already made up before hand.

[Aquila King]

5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

You don't want to talk about what happens when companies decide its no longer worth doing business here cause you want to rob them blind.

(forgot to add this part to my above post)

This is sheer nonsense, because most modern countries already have the vast majority of what I'm suggesting implemented, and yet those same companies that do business here do business there as well. There are hundreds of millions of US citizens here. Companies are not going to abandon the chance to make money off of this gigantic market of people, just because we impose higher taxes and regulations onto them. Will they like having to do that? Of course not. But they'll suck it up and deal with it because they aren't going to abandon an entire market of people over that, especially considering that they'll still be making good money from the US regardless.

[Lilly]

1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

 

I swear, it's like you people never look outside of your own bubble here in the US.

 

No, some of us are quite aware of what takes place in the rest of the world.

Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/26/its-surprising-how-few-countries-have-national-single-payer-health-care-systems/#494281375c5a

Also, the super rich are the super powerful. They are not going to just 'give up' what they have in order that the masses to be taken care of. Remember what I said about human nature. 

[Hankenhunter]

47 minutes ago, Lilly said:

No, some of us are quite aware of what takes place in the rest of the world.

Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/26/its-surprising-how-few-countries-have-national-single-payer-health-care-systems/#494281375c5a

Also, the super rich are the super powerful. They are not going to just 'give up' what they have in order that the masses to be taken care of. Remember what I said about human nature. 

Nope, unaware and content like sheep to the slaughter. Where did the rich get their riches? From gouging the poor and middle class. Without us, they wouldn't be rich. Time for them to give back to society not just take.

Hank

[Aquila King]

52 minutes ago, Lilly said:

No, some of us are quite aware of what takes place in the rest of the world.

Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/26/its-surprising-how-few-countries-have-national-single-payer-health-care-systems/#494281375c5a

Also, the super rich are the super powerful. They are not going to just 'give up' what they have in order that the masses to be taken care of. Remember what I said about human nature. 

Funny how you use forbes business magazine (an unapologetically pro-rich business execs magazine) as a source to prove how extreme unchecked Capitalism in this country is somehow a good thing. Not like they have any biases or anything.

[Lilly]

Forbes is only right center: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/forbes/

So, only left leaning sources hold any credence then? 

[Lilly]

30 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Nope, unaware and content like sheep to the slaughter. Where did the rich get their riches? From gouging the poor and middle class. 

This link is very telling: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/blue-billionaires-on-top-114151

So all of these super rich liberals gouged the poor and middle classes to become wealthy? Or does this gouging only pertain to super rich conservatives?  

BTW, Politico is left center: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/  (just want to have some credence)

[MiskatonicGrad]

I hope the government declares war on healthcare like they did with poverty and drugs because it works out so well. I mean we don't have any poor people and well we know drugs are a thing of the past. 

When will you people realize the government doesn't fix anything they just use it to take more in taxes and take more and more liberty from the people?

Good Lord I don't even want to imagine what a beaurocratic nightmare government healthcare would be. "Here is your 1 million page healthcare forum. Fill this out and if you are still alive we will put you in the system." No thanks. 

[Hankenhunter]

34 minutes ago, MiskatonicGrad said:

I hope the government declares war on healthcare like they did with poverty and drugs because it works out so well. I mean we don't have any poor people and well we know drugs are a thing of the past. 

When will you people realize the government doesn't fix anything they just use it to take more in taxes and take more and more liberty from the people?

Good Lord I don't even want to imagine what a beaurocratic nightmare government healthcare would be. "Here is your 1 million page healthcare forum. Fill this out and if you are still alive we will put you in the system." No thanks. 

Canada says hello. No nightmares, and no million page forms. Easy peasy health care for all. All taken care of when you're born. You've been fed a steaming load for so long that you think it tastes good.

Hank

[Hankenhunter]

39 minutes ago, Lilly said:

This link is very telling: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/blue-billionaires-on-top-114151

So all of these super rich liberals gouged the poor and middle classes to become wealthy? Or does this gouging only pertain to super rich conservatives?  

BTW, Politico is left center: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/  (just want to have some credence)

All wealthy individuals regardless of political bent. You keep trying to make this a partisan issue. That's how you never get anything accomplished, and how you get Trump.

Hank

[Lilly]

I'm not trying to make Universal Healthcare a political issue, it simply is a political issue. One political philosophy supports the concept, the other does not. 

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, Aquila King said:

(forgot to add this part to my above post)

This is sheer nonsense, because most modern countries already have the vast majority of what I'm suggesting implemented, and yet those same companies that do business here do business there as well. There are hundreds of millions of US citizens here. Companies are not going to abandon the chance to make money off of this gigantic market of people, just because we impose higher taxes and regulations onto them. Will they like having to do that? Of course not. But they'll suck it up and deal with it because they aren't going to abandon an entire market of people over that, especially considering that they'll still be making good money from the US regardless.

 

They are taxed in other western countries at a little under what the US companies were taxed before Trumps plan. They just take damn near half the money the people make. At least the ones who make over 45,000. I guess people in those countries can afford that. I most certainly can not. Nor can anyone I know. Not without most of us taking a serious hit in our standard of living.

I think you are to emotionally attached to this idea to see it for what it is. You go from zero to 100 in anger. 

 

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

Canada says hello. No nightmares, and no million page forms. Easy peasy health care for all. All taken care of when you're born. You've been fed a steaming load for so long that you think it tastes good.

Hank

We really have to go into the vast details of why Canada and the US are two completely different situations? That will have completely different outcomes? 

[Aquila King]

13 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I think you are to emotionally attached to this idea to see it for what it is. You go from zero to 100 in anger. 

No, I stand by this issue because I've actually ran the numbers, I've done my own research, and I find it to overwhelmingly be the best solution to a serious American problem. Is it so inconceivable to you that someone can actually stand on an issue that you disagree with based on the facts, rather than for an emotional reason? Any emotion that I convey in regards to this is merely out of a concern for the lives and well being of my fellow Americans, and out of the frustration of arguing over basic facts with people on here that should be in no way arguable.

Any further debate here goes into a numbers game, in which we would have to sit down and crunch the numbers and see where all the money's coming from. I of course find there to be plenty of money to fund Medicare for all, and you of course don't. If you want to get into that debate then so be it, but I really don't feel like getting into it real heavy right now on Easter weekend, so if you do I'll have to just say I'll get back to you on that.

[preacherman76]

19 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

No, I stand by this issue because I've actually ran the numbers, I've done my own research, and I find it to overwhelmingly be the best solution to a serious American problem. Is it so inconceivable to you that someone can actually stand on an issue that you disagree with based on the facts, rather than for an emotional reason? Any emotion that I convey in regards to this is merely out of a concern for the lives and well being of my fellow Americans, and out of the frustration of arguing over basic facts with people on here that should be in no way arguable.

Any further debate here goes into a numbers game, in which we would have to sit down and crunch the numbers and see where all the money's coming from. I of course find there to be plenty of money to fund Medicare for all, and you of course don't. If you want to get into that debate then so be it, but I really don't feel like getting into it real heavy right now on Easter weekend, so if you do I'll have to just say I'll get back to you on that.

What facts? You just said you believed companies in other countries get taxed like Bernie wants to do here. They are not. Its the people getting half their money stolen from the government every week. Nor have you said anything about the many differences between other countries and the US, and how they will bring different results. Mmm yeah Im done for now to, Have a great Easter.