Atheists is there life after death

[Davros of Skaro]

11 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

First of all let me say I'm a firm atheist. I do not believe in a god or Jesus or a heaven or hell. I do however believe in ghosts and yes I have seen one before you ask. I also don't believe in psychics and mediums just to be clear. So how many atheists are there that share my beliefs? 

I voted yes because there's no "I'm open to the possibility" option. 

The thing is that I have seen many strange things. But thankfully by educating myself I have eliminated most of them. The few other things though put through skeptical wringers, it defies satisfactory explanation. 

I'm not saying something that fits the many descriptions of what one calls "Ghost" automatically means "Afterlife". Not being bound by dogma wether religious, or secular I'm free to ponder many possibilities (even some I never heard before as if unique to my own thoughts).

This is just one reason I'm anti-theist, and pro-reason. I have always been interested in the paranormal, but too many fruitcakes, and for profits made a mess of things so it's not taken seriously. 

Even if there's an afterlife, it does not mean there's a God. An afterlife can be just as screwed up as this life? Maybe living through this world is the vacation, and the longest lines are for the most messed up life because it's seen as a thrill ride and nothing more?

I rather see a paranormal show that's reasoned, and skeptical than the circus shows they have on. I hate talking to people about these things, and they want to ignore the things that go against what they want to believe. 

Remember an Atheist is just "no God Belief", and Atheists are no unified thing.

 

[Piney]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, one respects the tradition of their family, yet have their own opinion/input on things. My middle son is a "Catholic" Athiest these days. 

 

It's more complicated than that. During the McCarthy Era people who didn't want to be accused of being Communists had to find a religious affiliation fast. We gathered a large group of atheists at my home Meeting. Many stayed on to fight social injustice. 

 Before that we gave aid to people in the Seabrook Internment Camp and helped build them a Temple. Many Japanese Buddhists became involved with the Meeting which is how my stepsister's family became Buddhist Quakers.

Many Quakers in the Salem Quarter were also involved with helping and hiring members of the local Lenape Tribe and intermarried with them too. That's where I came from. I'm not the only half Lenape half Quaker who is a Native Traditionalist. There is quite a few of us. Then there is my cousin Brian, who is a half Quaker, half Lenape atheist. 

[bigjim36]

4 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

The problem is, most atheists are also materialists and reductionists and so obviously reject the possiblity of the continuation of human consciousness after physical death. In my opinion, such a possibility opens the door to the idea of a Higher Reality (God).

As a spiritual atheist, I'm not sure how you'd explain that.

I'm not a spiritual atheist. It just so happens that I believe in ghosts. That doesn't mean god put them there or that I believe we can sit around a table in the dark and summon them. It just means we haven't figured out what they are yet. God is no more involved in this discussion than next doors cat! 

[Rlyeh]

4 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What exactly is your most basic idea of 'nothing'? Because the way you put it, it still sounds like something.

Think back to your first memory. Now what was before that?

[Rlyeh]

I said no even though 'I don't know' would be more appropriate. Life after death would be nice but so would world peace and immortality.

[danydandan]

18 minutes ago, bigjim36 said:

I'm not a spiritual atheist. It just so happens that I believe in ghosts. That doesn't mean god put them there or that I believe we can sit around a table in the dark and summon them. It just means we haven't figured out what they are yet. God is no more involved in this discussion than next doors cat! 

What do you believe ghosts are then?

[dream jo]

im a humnistt i am grt is no rullsss on thngs i do i blvees in ghostss 2 i sureee i saw 1 in moms nursinn hom i did on gud fryday  but i kpt it 2 my sff i did dnt tell staff in cas  mos dortr me wz lopppyy but i no wot i saw lady tall lady eldyy glassess shes had shrt curllyy hairr she did 

iv sean few in my own homm 2 i ahv hav hav 

but sean ths i no u will belve me 

[XenoFish]

34 minutes ago, dream jo said:

im a humnistt i am grt is no rullsss on thngs i do i blvees in ghostss 2 i sureee i saw 1 in moms nursinn hom i did on gud fryday  but i kpt it 2 my sff i did dnt tell staff in cas  mos dortr me wz lopppyy but i no wot i saw lady tall lady eldyy glassess shes had shrt curllyy hairr she did 

iv sean few in my own homm 2 i ahv hav hav 

but sean ths i no u will belve me 

What???

[I'mConvinced]

49 minutes ago, dream jo said:

im a humnistt i am grt is no rullsss on thngs i do i blvees in ghostss 2 i sureee i saw 1 in moms nursinn hom i did on gud fryday  but i kpt it 2 my sff i did dnt tell staff in cas  mos dortr me wz lopppyy but i no wot i saw lady tall lady eldyy glassess shes had shrt curllyy hairr she did 

iv sean few in my own homm 2 i ahv hav hav 

but sean ths i no u will belve me 

The bold is grammatically incorrect. I hate to nitpick but I'm a stickler for good Engrish.

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, danydandan said:

What do you believe ghosts are then?

Assuming there's such a thing as a Ghost, but open to definition? 

What if there's interdimensional versions of simple celled organisms that act as unaware parasites? They through their own unique evolution act like bugs to a bug zapper in that they attach to us because a certain part of us ripple in their dimension? 

These simple beings with no intelligence of their own fruition take on some of our most  predominant routines, or thoughts.? Then when the host (us) dies it fluctuates into our dimension at times the previous host was most routine? 

Can you now imagine if there was some truth to this? Then add the confusion of what people want to believe, or fear added as myth, and misinformation?  

When people say "There is no God", and "There's no afterlife", I prefer that so we can start fresh without the preconceived notions.

There's a whole lot of bs to get rid of is what I'm saying so we can finally have true open minds.

Christianity is just Hellenistic philosophy meets Judaism with a dose of mixed up propaganda, but I do not see that stinky slop composted anytime soon.

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, dream jo said:

im a humnistt i am grt is no rullsss on thngs i do i blvees in ghostss 2 i sureee i saw 1 in moms nursinn hom i did on gud fryday  but i kpt it 2 my sff i did dnt tell staff in cas  mos dortr me wz lopppyy but i no wot i saw lady tall lady eldyy glassess shes had shrt curllyy hairr she did 

iv sean few in my own homm 2 i ahv hav hav 

but sean ths i no u will belve me 

That was awesome! 

Welcome to UM.

Looking forward to your evolution. 

[+joc]

2 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

I'm not a spiritual atheist. It just so happens that I believe in ghosts. That doesn't mean god put them there or that I believe we can sit around a table in the dark and summon them. It just means we haven't figured out what they are yet. God is no more involved in this discussion than next doors cat! 

It just means that...you...haven't figured out what they are yet.   So...let me help you here okay?  Ghosts are not 'souls of the dead'...rather...they are 'souls of fear'...your own personal fears.  Ghosts are your own fears.   Find your fear...the ghosts will all disappear!  

Ghosts!  The consciousness of the dead?   Preposterous!   Ghosts have everything to do with fear.  Voodoo that you do...in your own head.   

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, dream jo said:

im a humnistt i am grt is no rullsss on thngs i do i blvees in ghostss 2 i sureee i saw 1 in moms nursinn hom i did on gud fryday  but i kpt it 2 my sff i did dnt tell staff in cas  mos dortr me wz lopppyy but i no wot i saw lady tall lady eldyy glassess shes had shrt curllyy hairr she did 

iv sean few in my own homm 2 i ahv hav hav 

but sean ths i no u will belve me 

Let me try to translate this.

I'm a humanist. I have no rules on things like this, but I do believe in ghost. I saw one at my mothers nursing home on good friday. It was a tall elderly lady with curly hair and glasses. I didn't tell anyone, they'd think I was crazy. 

I've seen a few in my own home.

Well that's as good as I can do.

[Davros of Skaro]

15 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

First of all let me say I'm a firm atheist.

I recently heard a news commentar refer to Stephen Hawking as a "devout atheist", and you say "firm atheist". It sounds like if there was absolute evidence of a God these Atheists would act like Theists in that they bury their heads in the sand when shown the lack of evidence for God.

Just a nitpick. But devout, firm, and card carrying Atheist to me goes against the dare I say "spirit" of what we demand that being evidence. You will never see me saying "There's no God", but I will lay plenty of evidence showing the Abrahamic, and other man imagined Gods to be made up.

15 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

I do not believe in a god or Jesus or a heaven or hell.

You should have seen "Jesus Christ Superstar" last night.

15 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

I do however believe in ghosts and yes I have seen one before you ask.

Please do tell. Let's put it to scrutiny. 

15 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

I also don't believe in psychics and mediums just to be clear.

Yes. If there's such ability it's down there with chance, and would be very difficult to bring to light scientific method wise.

15 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

So how many atheists are there that share my beliefs? 

It's a coming out of the closet type a thing.... LMAO!

[danydandan]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Let me try to translate this.

I'm a humanist. I have no rules on things like this, but I do believe in ghost. I saw one at my mothers nursing home on good friday. It was a tall elderly lady with curly hair and glasses. I didn't tell anyone, they'd think I was crazy. 

I've seen a few in my own home.

Well that's as good as I can do.

I couldn't make head nor tails of it.

[I'mConvinced]

Is there death after life? = Is there life after death?

If the answer to the first question is yes then....

 

....you've missed the faulty logic.

[I'mConvinced]

14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Let me try to translate this.

I'm a humanist. I have no rules on things like this, but I do believe in ghost. I saw one at my mothers nursing home on good friday. It was a tall elderly lady with curly hair and glasses. I didn't tell anyone, they'd think I was crazy. 

I've seen a few in my own home.

Well that's as good as I can do.

Bingo!

I'd like to add that he was with his daughter who was going loopy and the ghost had short curly hair, she did.

 

[+Sherapy]

9 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What exactly is your most basic idea of 'nothing'? Because the way you put it, it still sounds like something.

No consciousness. 

[SHaYap]

Well for whatever its worth, being a ghost ain't no way to live in any after life ...

~

[bigjim36]

6 hours ago, danydandan said:

What do you believe ghosts are then?

I have no idea. There's some evidence for the stone tape theory in that some ghosts appear regularly and just repeat the same actions over and over again. Could they be bleed throughs from another dimension? Possibly. Could they be manifestations of the subconscious? Possibly. I have no firm or definitive answer. I don't believe they are souls though, if they were we'd be inundated with them everywhere assuming of course that every living thing that ever lived has/had a soul. 

[bigjim36]

4 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

I recently heard a news commentar refer to Stephen Hawking as a "devout atheist", and you say "firm atheist". It sounds like if there was absolute evidence of a God these Atheists would act like Theists in that they bury their heads in the sand when shown the lack of evidence for God.

Absolutely not. If there was absolute evidence of god I would believe. (I used to. Was born and raised catholic). It's through learning about other religions and the history of Christianity that I realized it was all bull**it. Took me a long time after that to stop believing in god altogether. 

 

4 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

Just a nitpick. But devout, firm, and card carrying Atheist to me goes against the dare I say "spirit" of what we demand that being evidence. You will never see me saying "There's no God", but I will lay plenty of evidence showing the Abrahamic, and other man imagined Gods to be made up.

You should have seen "Jesus Christ Superstar" last night.

Please do tell. Let's put it to scrutiny. 

Very long story short. Near where I lived was an old dilapidated windmill and farmhouse, last used sometime around the 1940's from the looks of it. It was around a mile or two from my house and accessible only by dirt track or cutting through fields. One day me and a school friend had been playing in the farmhouse and had gone outside to feed the pig (the farmer still used the sty and lived about half a mile away down the track) when I looked behind me into the farmhouse. Instead of the dusty floors, knackered old four poster bed with its raggy nets and rolled up mattress stood what looked like a brand new four poster bed, full nets hanging from its beams, a fully made up bed with a skeleton sat up against the pillows, wearing a pale blue and white striped nightgown and nightcap. I managed to alert my friend through my fear and we both turned round to look at it together. The old smashed window was now whole and gleaming and the skeleton was stood looking out at us and opened its mouth. At that point fear took over and we fled for our lives. It took me over ten years to go back to that place. There's no way it could've been someone playing a trick as we had been in that room only 30 seconds or so earlier. Two of us saw it. That was over 30 years ago and I know what I saw, my story has never changed or been exaggerated.

4 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

Yes. If there's such ability it's down there with chance, and would be very difficult to bring to light scientific method wise.

It's a coming out of the closet type a thing.... LMAO!

 

[Only_]

8 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Think back to your first memory. Now what was before that?

I don't know. You may imagine yourself as being in some sort of 'nothingness' state prior to birth but then you weren't in a physical body and reality wasn't been interpreted through the lenses of your physical brain.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Podo]

26 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

I don't know. You may imagine yourself as being in some sort of 'nothingness' state prior to birth but then you weren't in a physical body and reality wasn't been interpreted through the lenses of your physical brain.

The bolded first sentence is all you need. The rest of it is drivel. Not knowing is okay, y'know? You don't need to make stuff up.

[StarMountainKid]

It seems to me our consciousness is an evolution of this reality,of this universe, not separate from it. Consciousness is biological in nature Consciousness is the brain's perception of the body's sensory organs. This is mind, the brain's perception of its external environment.

Now the mind must make sense of these perceptions. It does this by internally manipulating these sensations for its survival within its external environment. Primitive internal thoughts begin.

When the mind learns language, it can better manipulate these thoughts and create new thoughts. Here the mind's imagination begins.

Imagination is important as a survival tactic. Mind wishes to survive. When mind recognizes death and the possibility of its own death, it fears this. Then mind imagines all sorts of ways to avoid its own death. Mind invents God, afterlife, heavens, etc. to convince itself it will not die.

 

 

 

 

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, bigjim36 said:

Absolutely not. If there was absolute evidence of god I would believe. 

Same here. 

1 hour ago, bigjim36 said:

Very long story short. Near where I lived was an old dilapidated windmill and farmhouse, last used sometime around the 1940's from the looks of it. It was around a mile or two from my house and accessible only by dirt track or cutting through fields. One day me and a school friend had been playing in the farmhouse and had gone outside to feed the pig (the farmer still used the sty and lived about half a mile away down the track) when I looked behind me into the farmhouse. Instead of the dusty floors, knackered old four poster bed with its raggy nets and rolled up mattress stood what looked like a brand new four poster bed, full nets hanging from its beams, a fully made up bed with a skeleton sat up against the pillows, wearing a pale blue and white striped nightgown and nightcap. I managed to alert my friend through my fear and we both turned round to look at it together. The old smashed window was now whole and gleaming and the skeleton was stood looking out at us and opened its mouth. At that point fear took over and we fled for our lives. It took me over ten years to go back to that place. There's no way it could've been someone playing a trick as we had been in that room only 30 seconds or so earlier. Two of us saw it. That was over 30 years ago and I know what I saw, my story has never changed or been exaggerated.

That's friggin weird. If I heard this on one of the listener submitted ghost story podcasts I listen to, I would chalk it up to some sort of shared suggestable hallucination? Or someone playing a joke? It's too weird, and more Halloween fare. It makes no sense. I would've gone back and checked the floorboards, or any hideaway for treasure near that bed. There's lots of folklore of Ghosts associated with hidden treasure. A skeleton can open it's mouth at me all it wants if there's gold coins to be had.

I have a quick story. My aunt & uncle had a place where the kitchen at night had noises of someone pacing back and forth with what sounded like a newspaper's pages being flipped. I tried to debunk it looking for signs of mice, and other stuff to no avail. One night with just my aunt we heard it, I ran to the kitchen, the sound immediately stopped, and then a loud bang came from the basement. Soon afterward my aunt & uncle moved to Florida, and the house demolished. I regret that I never set up my video camera in that kitchen, and rip out some of the walls for any ghost treasure.