Atheists is there life after death

[Emma_Acid]

On 01/04/2018 at 11:19 PM, Orphalesion said:

Streams of Buddhism, some streams of Hinduism, Jainism, Neo-Platonics, Confucianism and Taoism,  versions of the Church of Lucifer, And apparently there are atheistic Quakers as well (hope somebody can confirm or deny that)...

Yes. I have members of my family who are basically atheist but follow Quaker traditions.

[Doug1029]

On 4/1/2018 at 5:19 PM, Orphalesion said:

 And apparently there are atheistic Quakers as well (hope somebody can confirm or deny that)...

I am confirming it.  Unprogrammed Quaker meetings are the last stop on the Religion Line before you get to atheism.  Right next to agnostics.

Doug

[brian100]

On 4/1/2018 at 1:51 PM, bigjim36 said:

First of all let me say I'm a firm atheist. I do not believe in a god or Jesus or a heaven or hell. I do however believe in ghosts and yes I have seen one before you ask. I also don't believe in psychics and mediums just to be clear. So how many atheists are there that share my beliefs? 

Well if you believe in Ghost that opens up the reality God is there too.

Edited September 12, 2019 by brian100
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[bigjim36]

No, no it doesn't. There's no link whatsoever. Believing in ghosts does not mean that there's a creator who's responsible for everything in the universe. We know that energy doesn't die, it just changes form, that could explain ghosts, as could the stone tape theory. There's literally not a shred of evidence for god. Not one single iota. 

[Davros of Skaro]

8 hours ago, bigjim36 said:

No, no it doesn't. There's no link whatsoever. Believing in ghosts does not mean that there's a creator who's responsible for everything in the universe. We know that energy doesn't die, it just changes form, that could explain ghosts, as could the stone tape theory. There's literally not a shred of evidence for god. Not one single iota. 

Hey bg. Did you ever get in contact with your friend to compare experiences? 

[bigjim36]

I did, he has no recollection of it. Some people have suggested maybe he's buried the memory of it? I can still remember every single moment of it, it was that traumatic. Someone said it might be a screen memory but I'm unsure about any of that. They started on about demons etc so I discounted it.

[+and-then]

On 4/2/2018 at 7:18 AM, XenoFish said:

I saw one at my mothers nursing home on good friday. It was a tall elderly lady with curly hair and glasses. I didn't tell anyone, they'd think I was crazy. 

What made you believe it was a ghost?

[XenoFish]

On 4/2/2018 at 8:18 AM, XenoFish said:

Let me try to translate this.

I'm a humanist. I have no rules on things like this, but I do believe in ghost. I saw one at my mothers nursing home on good friday. It was a tall elderly lady with curly hair and glasses. I didn't tell anyone, they'd think I was crazy. 

I've seen a few in my own home.

Well that's as good as I can do.

That's the full quote. Don't partial quote me without context. @and then

Edited September 19, 2019 by XenoFish

[+and-then]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:21 AM, bigjim36 said:

No, no it doesn't. There's no link whatsoever. Believing in ghosts does not mean that there's a creator who's responsible for everything in the universe. We know that energy doesn't die, it just changes form, that could explain ghosts, as could the stone tape theory. There's literally not a shred of evidence for god. Not one single iota. 

I haven't followed the whole thread so excuse me if this has been asked and answered but, what makes you so firmly sure that there cannot be a Creator?  Also, if no creative intelligence was involved in this reality we share, what was going on a millisecond before the Big Bang?  

I'm just the opposite in belief.  And it is ONLY belief, not something I can prove, or need to prove.  I believe humanity was created for a purpose and it will continue to evolve.  I think we probably don't understand the intricacies of it all and the religions we have created probably do more to cause strife than healing but that doesn't rule out a Creator, IMO.  

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

That's the full quote. Don't partial quote me without context.

Are you referring to post #182 here?

 

[+and-then]

On 4/11/2018 at 3:51 PM, Doug1o29 said:

I am confirming it.  Unprogrammed Quaker meetings are the last stop on the Religion Line before you get to atheism.  Right next to agnostics.

Doug

That would explain a lot...

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Are you referring to post #182 here?

 

See post 183.

[Tatetopa]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:21 AM, bigjim36 said:

We know that energy doesn't die, it just changes form, that could explain ghosts,

Be careful with this line of thought. Energy is conserved, but that is not really the main issue in an ordered universe.  It is organization that is vital.  How energy and matter are organized is what  yields unique objects, whether that be a person or a neutron star.  

 When you turn on a computer, it is not the 110 volt power that makes it unique, it is the internal organization.  While it is running, that 110 volt power is transformed by the computer software and hardware  into useful information.  A part of it changes state and is lost to heat as the computer functions.  The heat that the computer fan blows out into the room carries none of the organization with it, just energy.

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

3 hours ago, and then said:

what makes you so firmly sure that there cannot be a Creator?

Basically, a lack of evidence is the primary reason.

The problem with a creator is that we then begin to slide down the rabbit hole of 'who created the creator?', and yes, I've heard the assertation that the creator is an eternal being, always was, always is, always will be. But everything we can and have observed in the local universe has a beginning and an end, why should the creator be exempt from this?

Quote

what was going on a millisecond before the Big Bang?  

Until, and unless, we can develop some type of time travelling device, we may never know.

Quote

I believe humanity was created for a purpose

Assuming that you are correct, that everything was 'created' for a purpose, doesn't that kind of contradict an all powerful deity? I mean to say that if your god-construct is so powerful that it could create literally everything, then why would it need to create humanity? Couldn't your god just take care of whatever it was that needed us to have purpose?

In other words, what could we do, that god couldn't do? 

I'm not putting words in your mouth, but as an example, suppose our "purpose" was to advance to a technological stage where we could easily & quickly travel to other stars. We find a planet, with sentient life, whose sun is going to go nova. WE have the tech to avert this disaster, and we do, saving an intelligent lifeform.

But couldn't god do that? Without the needed millions of years required for us to advance from stone-age to warp-age?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jodie.Lynne

[Tatetopa]

5 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Assuming that you are correct, that everything was 'created' for a purpose, doesn't that kind of contradict an all powerful deity?

Not necessarily Jodie Lynne.  Consider a narcissistic and maybe insecure being that just wants  the affirmation of worship so creates beings with no other purpose than to worship.  With no parents, siblings, or friends to give positive affirmation, maybe a being becomes lonely and doubtful.

[Jodie.Lynne]

17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Not necessarily Jodie Lynne.  Consider a narcissistic and maybe insecure being that just wants  the affirmation of worship so creates beings with no other purpose than to worship.  With no parents, siblings, or friends to give positive affirmation, maybe a being becomes lonely and doubtful.

That is an interesting and valid point. It reminds me of the Original Star Trek episode "The Squire of Gothos"

But we are still left with the nagging question of where did that critter come from?

[Tatetopa]

2 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But we are still left with the nagging question of where did that critter come from?

As you said before, we may never know.

Maybe a science project somewhere in some lab way out there  they are modeling the universe to understand how it unfolds.  After a few thousand trials, some experimenter thinks they should run a simulation with an awareness generated during the big bang just to see if things progress differently.  Bam! a supreme, within the simulation trial, being.

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

As you said before, we may never know.

Maybe a science project somewhere in some lab way out there  they are modeling the universe to understand how it unfolds.  After a few thousand trials, some experimenter thinks they should run a simulation with an awareness generated during the big bang just to see if things progress differently.  Bam! a supreme, within the simulation trial, being.

I like the way you think. But again, I may be being thick, but then where did the experimenters come from? and so on, and so on.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, not disparage anyone's faith here.

But talk of creators, experimenters, 'brains in vats', and 'matrix-like' lives, doesn't really answer the question for me. All it does, IMO, is answer a riddle with a riddle.

It's like, some mathematical genius writes a 400 page equation, and then, just writes "Take a wild guess, because I don't know WTF comes next" as the final answer.

 

ON TOPIC

"Is There Life After Death?"

Be damned if I know. I'll find out when I get there.

But let us assume that there is. What afterlife should we believe in, and what god is the right one?

[Aquila King]

4 hours ago, and then said:

Also, if no creative intelligence was involved in this reality we share, what was going on a millisecond before the Big Bang?  

Technically there supposedly was no millisecond before, as there was no 'before'. The Big Bang is supposedly the beginning of time itself, so yeah.

Not claiming to have the answer here, just saying that your question misrepresents the theory proposed.

[psyche101]

8 hours ago, and then said:

I haven't followed the whole thread so excuse me if this has been asked and answered but, what makes you so firmly sure that there cannot be a Creator? 

Better evidence that the universe is natural. 

8 hours ago, and then said:

Also, if no creative intelligence was involved in this reality we share, what was going on a millisecond before the Big Bang?  

Particle soup. 

8 hours ago, and then said:

I'm just the opposite in belief.  And it is ONLY belief, not something I can prove, or need to prove.  I believe humanity was created for a purpose and it will continue to evolve.  I think we probably don't understand the intricacies of it all and the religions we have created probably do more to cause strife than healing but that doesn't rule out a Creator, IMO.  

What rules one in? 

The only reason we believe in a creator is because we made them up. And plenty of them too. Absolutely nothing in nature hints at the idea of a Creator everything illustrates a natural universe. 

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

t's like, some mathematical genius writes a 400 page equation, and then, just writes "Take a wild guess, because I don't know WTF comes next" as the final answer.

You got me there.  I have a T Shirt that says WTF  and I wear it a lot, I am not the mathematical genius though,   If you have faith, you don't really need to know.  If you don't have faith and don't really know, just get yourself a good T-shirt.

[Davros of Skaro]

11 hours ago, and then said:

I haven't followed the whole thread so excuse me if this has been asked and answered but, what makes you so firmly sure that there cannot be a Creator?  Also, if no creative intelligence was involved in this reality we share, what was going on a millisecond before the Big Bang?  

The ye ol (Kalam) Cosmological Argument. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam_cosmological_argument

Chew on this:

1) God created the universe, and it always existed.

2) Science says energy cannot be created, or destroyed. But it does transmute to other properties. Given enough time energy creates a universe. Given enough time, and many created then destroyed universes, energy creates our current universe. Given more time energy results in conscious beings that invent fables on how it got here. There may have been many universes with conscious beings that invented fables on how it got here. There maybe highly technological survivors from a pervious universe hanging out in ours?

 

Which choice is more in evidence?

 

11 hours ago, and then said:

I'm just the opposite in belief.  And it is ONLY belief, not something I can prove, or need to prove.  I believe humanity was created for a purpose and it will continue to evolve.  I think we probably don't understand the intricacies of it all and the religions we have created probably do more to cause strife than healing but that doesn't rule out a Creator, IMO.  

Back on topic I do not see the existence of ghosts necessarily entails a creator, nor dismisses one either. Ghosts if they exist might be a phenomenon we never even thought of, and our assumptions are way off base? Same for a creator as well?

I always was intrigued with the paranormal. But I learned there's far more BS than fact.

 

@bigjim36

Too bad your friend does not remember. Think about this though. Why a skeleton? 

 

[RAyMO]

8 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I like the way you think. But again, I may be being thick, but then where did the experimenters come from? and so on, and so on.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, not disparage anyone's faith here.

But talk of creators, experimenters, 'brains in vats', and 'matrix-like' lives, doesn't really answer the question for me. All it does, IMO, is answer a riddle with a riddle.

It's like, some mathematical genius writes a 400 page equation, and then, just writes "Take a wild guess, because I don't know WTF comes next" as the final answer.

 

ON TOPIC

"Is There Life After Death?"

Be damned if I know. I'll find out when I get there.

But let us assume that there is. What afterlife should we believe in, and what god is the right one?

What would the purpose of an eternal afterlife be?

[Davros of Skaro]

27 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

What would the purpose of an eternal afterlife be?

Catch up on all the TV shows/movies past, present, and future your mortal life has no time to watch.

[godnodog]

I like to think our descendents in the future will master time travel and time manipulation, and are able to somehow able to transfer conscience from a person who died moments ago to somesort of virtual reality, I would love to say hi or goodbye to my grandparents one last time

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by godnodog