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bigjim36

Atheists is there life after death

How many atheists believe in an afterlife?   

36 members have voted

  1. 1. How many atheists believe in an afterlife?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      27


451 posts in this topic

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Jodie.Lynne
14 hours ago, RAyMO said:

What would the purpose of an eternal afterlife be?

Good question!

According to the dogma of the church I was raised in, it is to take part in an ever growing chorus of sycophants chanting the praises of the creator. For eternity...

Because, apparently, the ultimate 'supreme being' needs a continual, perpetual ego boost provided by his adoring fans.

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RAyMO
22 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Good question!

According to the dogma of the church I was raised in, it is to take part in an ever growing chorus of sycophants chanting the praises of the creator. For eternity...

Because, apparently, the ultimate 'supreme being' needs a continual, perpetual ego boost provided by his adoring fans.

being human - even deceased human we are likely to bore with that after a couple of thousand years - perhaps we'd even be bored enough to rebel. Wonder if that has ever happened before? ^_^

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Jodie.Lynne
19 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Wonder if that has ever happened before?

According to the mythology, it did. By beings who were created to serve without question.

According to the instruction I was given, ONLY humans had free will.

Which made me think that if angels couldn't decide for themselves to rebel, then they were designed to, programmed to, rebel against their creator. BY their creator. 

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Davros of Skaro
6 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Good question!

According to the dogma of the church I was raised in, it is to take part in an ever growing chorus of sycophants chanting the praises of the creator. For eternity...

Because, apparently, the ultimate 'supreme being' needs a continual, perpetual ego boost provided by his adoring fans.

I was just now inspired by the creator to give this to you.

 

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Timothy

How many atheists believe in an afterlife?

Yes / No

That possible response is annoying and non-specific. 

There is life after our death. It is decomposition, life goes on if you die. existence does not end. My electrics will stop firing, consciousness will fade to black, my body will decompose and feed other biological function. 

If there’s anything else, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

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Jodie.Lynne
Just now, bigjim36 said:

I mean what's the common theme? 

He knows what he knows is what he knows, and he knows he is right because it's what he knows.

 

And please don't ask me to say that again, I was lucky to get it out the first time! :D

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Habitat
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I am not decided on whether or not an afterlife exists, but it might very well be true that whatever it is that makes 'me', me, may continue on after this physical shell has died. I am not convinced that it does, or does not, but it has nothing to do with gods.

You don't know any afterlife "has nothing to do with Gods", and neither do I.

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Aquila King
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

It may be too late for bigjim36, but don't allow this to happen to you, or a loved one!

If you act now, for only $1.07, the price of a cup of coffee, YOU can act to help prevent the spread of stupid.

And if, your financial status prevents it, then you can still act!  Simply activate the ignore function. Yes, you can help prevent the stupid from spreading.

Think of the children, act now.

This is grade A meme material. :lol:

Also I read this in Anthony Sullivan's voice.

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Mr Walker
On 4/2/2018 at 7:34 AM, danydandan said:

Loads, Scientology, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and Ruism for examples.

are you sure ? some of these believe in a form of god or gods, although not quite like the judeo christian one. 

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Mr Walker
On 9/21/2019 at 9:00 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

According to the mythology, it did. By beings who were created to serve without question.

According to the instruction I was given, ONLY humans had free will.

Which made me think that if angels couldn't decide for themselves to rebel, then they were designed to, programmed to, rebel against their creator. BY their creator. 

Interesting.

A non doctrinal reading of the bible indicates that the angels all had free will. A third decided to rebel against god and follow satan 

This makes sense, as any slef aware consciousness has free will.

That will include artificial consciousness and other animal consciousnesses as they evolve to this level. 

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Mr Walker
On 9/20/2019 at 7:56 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Basically, a lack of evidence is the primary reason.

The problem with a creator is that we then begin to slide down the rabbit hole of 'who created the creator?', and yes, I've heard the assertation that the creator is an eternal being, always was, always is, always will be. But everything we can and have observed in the local universe has a beginning and an end, why should the creator be exempt from this?

Until, and unless, we can develop some type of time travelling device, we may never know.

Assuming that you are correct, that everything was 'created' for a purpose, doesn't that kind of contradict an all powerful deity? I mean to say that if your god-construct is so powerful that it could create literally everything, then why would it need to create humanity? Couldn't your god just take care of whatever it was that needed us to have purpose?

In other words, what could we do, that god couldn't do? 

I'm not putting words in your mouth, but as an example, suppose our "purpose" was to advance to a technological stage where we could easily & quickly travel to other stars. We find a planet, with sentient life, whose sun is going to go nova. WE have the tech to avert this disaster, and we do, saving an intelligent lifeform.

But couldn't god do that? Without the needed millions of years required for us to advance from stone-age to warp-age?

what if the creator was an evolved alien intelligence?  I don't believe in creation but i do know such an intelligence.  

Humans will eventually learn the skills  needed to create life and planets.  Thus we can become creators despite being evolved ourselves.

So can "gods" 

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Horta
On 4/2/2018 at 6:51 AM, bigjim36 said:

First of all let me say I'm a firm atheist. I do not believe in a god or Jesus or a heaven or hell.

So far, so good. :lol:

Quote

I do however believe in ghosts and yes I have seen one before you ask. I also don't believe in psychics and mediums just to be clear. So how many atheists are there that share my beliefs? 

My wife is an atheist and generally far more cynical skeptical than I am (yeah, I know...). She does believe in ghosts however. Never used to, I was actually with her the time that all changed for her in an instant.

I think they have other explanations and don't believe in them at all. Which thankfully, has never caused an argument between us yet.

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charlesmike

I reject your choice you are committing suicide its my duty I am compelled to tell you so.

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XenoFish
46 minutes ago, charlesmike said:

I reject your choice you are committing suicide its my duty I am compelled to tell you so.

Say huh???

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, charlesmike said:

I reject your choice you are committing suicide its my duty I am compelled to tell you so.

I mm, wait what?

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Jodie.Lynne
3 hours ago, charlesmike said:

I reject your choice you are committing suicide its my duty I am compelled to tell you so.

Good for you!

And I am compelled to point out that your rejection of another's choice/faith/belief, means less than zero.

Also, you might want to read the forum rules regarding preaching one's own faith here. :)

 

Have a nice day! Or not, the choice is yours. 

Edited by Jodie.Lynne
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Jodie.Lynne
On 9/22/2019 at 10:35 PM, Mr Walker said:

Interesting.

A non doctrinal reading of the bible indicates that the angels all had free will. A third decided to rebel against god and follow satan 

This makes sense, as any slef aware consciousness has free will.

That will include artificial consciousness and other animal consciousnesses as they evolve to this level. 

Were you raised in the Roman Catholic faith? It's pretty much drilled into young, impressionable minds that only humans were created with "free will" as "god's favorite" creation.

A 'non-doctrinal' reading is null data, when discussing a particular doctrine.

 

A google search of "Do angels have free will?" results in a mixed bag of responses from "Yes", "No", to "Kind of-sort of".

 

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Habitat
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Also, you might want to read the forum rules regarding preaching one's own faith here. :)

You poor pet, bedevilled by "preachers". Now what "faith" was being peddled there, it must have been edited out, somehow ? I think if it is OK for you to preach the "faith" of materialism, all bets are off !

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Jodie.Lynne
34 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You poor pet, bedevilled by "preachers". Now what "faith" was being peddled there, it must have been edited out, somehow ? I think if it is OK for you to preach the "faith" of materialism, all bets are off !

No azzhat. Just letting a newbie know the rules, and trying to set them on the right foot.

 

I am neither threatened, nor 'bedeviled' by a beings own personal beliefs.  Not even by yours, whatever they may be. It's difficult to decipher amongst all the gibberish. 

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Were you raised in the Roman Catholic faith? It's pretty much drilled into young, impressionable minds that only humans were created with "free will" as "god's favorite" creation.

A 'non-doctrinal' reading is null data, when discussing a particular doctrine.

 

A google search of "Do angels have free will?" results in a mixed bag of responses from "Yes", "No", to "Kind of-sort of".

 

I was raised atheist/ secular humanist.

I only came to read and study the bible in my mid twenties.

I also am a long term student of many beliefs mostly christian bit also of other world religions, including how they began evolved and grew,  which gives a bit of a perspective 

Catholics evolved their own dogmatic theology over the centuries which often contradicts or varies  from whats in the bible. Hence for centuries catholics were not allowed to own a bible, so that priests could preach the "orthodox" version. 

In the reformation this divergence had become so great that many catholics could not abide it and began  the reformation.

The changes to biblical teaching are justified by catholic doctrine which says that the pope, as christ's vicar on earth, has authority to "interpret"  scripture and set out what it means 

Protestants tend to believe that you should read, study and follow the bible, as god leads you. This is especially true for the churches which grew out of the great revival movements of the 1800s 

Ps It is clear biblically that angels have free will from  how they behave.  Less clear, but also biblical, is the idea that there are MANY  worlds with god's creations on them including sentien followers of god ,  and governed by god.   They were all tempted by satan in the great war of the angels, but only earth succumbed (hence the parables of the lost sheep etc.) 

pps Non doctrinal means coming to a reading of the bible with an open mind, not already biased by taught /learned doctrines. Ie. deconstructing the  bible as a series of narratives in order to discover the writer's intent  the books coherence and sequence, and what, overall, can be taken from the book 

This is how Luther Calvin and the other great reformers came to see the discrepancies between catholic doctrine and the words of the bible, and what caused them to urge the church to reform. 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

No azzhat. Just letting a newbie know the rules, and trying to set them on the right foot.

Oh, I see, you were getting in before any preaching started ! 

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Jodie.Lynne
31 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

pps Non doctrinal means coming to a reading of the bible with an open mind, not already biased by taught /learned doctrines.

Thank you, Captain Obvious! :lol: I do speak the Queen's English, as well as 'Murican, and a smattering of other languages. I am aware what 'non-doctrinal' means. My point being that speaking of 'non-doctrine', whilst arguing against doctrine, is like arguing that the rules of golf do not apply to basketball!

34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ps It is clear biblically that angels have free will from  how they behave. 

Please indicate a passage that shows that angels have free will. And, don't use the 'rebellion' as an example. We first have to determine if angels are free agents.

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Jodie.Lynne
33 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Oh, I see, you were getting in before any preaching started ! 

Allow me to educate, by example.

 

Suppose you had never been to a formal dinner party, you have no clue why there are so many knives & forks at your disposal. Now, let us suppose that you wish to make a good impression. Would you not find it helpful, if one of your seat mates indicated which utensil is used for what purpose?

 

I am operating under the assumption that @charlesmike may be so full of evangelical spirit, that he might not be aware that there are many members of other faiths, or non-faiths present. And that simply issuing fiats vis-a vis his faith, are frowned upon.

 

But you continue to do you. Since it's obvious no one else will...

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Allow me to educate, by example.

 

Suppose you had never been to a formal dinner party, you have no clue why there are so many knives & forks at your disposal. Now, let us suppose that you wish to make a good impression. Would you not find it helpful, if one of your seat mates indicated which utensil is used for what purpose?

 

I am operating under the assumption that @charlesmike may be so full of evangelical spirit, that he might not be aware that there are many members of other faiths, or non-faiths present. And that simply issuing fiats vis-a vis his faith, are frowned upon.

 

But you continue to do you. Since it's obvious no one else will...

I see no sign of any formal faith being peddled, by anyone here, including me. 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Thank you, Captain Obvious! :lol: I do speak the Queen's English, as well as 'Murican, and a smattering of other languages. I am aware what 'non-doctrinal' means. My point being that speaking of 'non-doctrine', whilst arguing against doctrine, is like arguing that the rules of golf do not apply to basketball!

Please indicate a passage that shows that angels have free will. And, don't use the 'rebellion' as an example. We first have to determine if angels are free agents.

There are many contextual evidences The fact that the angels rebelled either means they had free will OR that god is an evil being who knew what would happen and could have prevented it.

The writers did NOT intend to portray god as evil thus (given that this is all a creative story), the god the writers described must have give ALL its creations the abilty to choose for themselves and to take responsibility for all their actions .Otherwise the story doesn't make sense, and god is not as the writers saw him  

The same applies to humans.

Like angels, we have free will  And so god can educate us and guide us, but ultimately, like angels, we are able to do as we please.

One example is in job where god believes that satan is  down on earth, but he has returned to heaven to stir up other witnesses, in god's  seat of governance,  by saying that job only follows god because god rewards him. 

Ps it was you who raised the point of catholic doctrine and being educated within it  I am pointing out that, when you step outside that doctrinal position and read the bible as a book, it becomes clear how much catholic doctrine varies from the bible.

  When deconstructed as you would any other book it becomes much clearer and contextually coherent  as to how the writers perceived god and intended to portray "him" 

if angels don't have free will, how does catholicism explain away their rebellion, and thus the fall of man? This was NOT god's plan,  or obvious to him, and he had to react after the event to things like this.

  The problem is that a doctrine has grown that god is all knowing and all powerful etc This conflicts with the god presented in the bible who clearly is not all knowing or all powerful and often has to react, change his mind, and go to plan b given the behaviors of both angels and humans 

Finally. how can any one make any sense of a story or purpose in which god plans the rebellion and the fall of man/?

Why would a creator being do this? even in just a myth

There is NOTHING in the bible to explain or justify such a pov  It is a construction invented by those who want to paint god as evil and callous rather than loving merciful and just, who allows people to act freely

If god WERE all knowing and all powerful then he would be evil.

God is loving merciful and just, and thus cannot be evil.

This means he could not know in advance what either the angels, or humans, would do, although he might have known it was possible. 

ie he took a chance by allowing us (and angels)  all free will. That has benefits and drawbacks for us. but primarily it allows us to grow and develop, and it allows us to take credit for our good choices while accepting blame for our bad ones. 

 Ps the bonds of catholicism are tight and strong 

Catholic doctrine is just a doctrine, like golf is just golf.

It is not that any divergence from catholic doctrine is at fault, but that catholic doctrine has strayed from  the rules of the bible.

It is more like the y are playing the same game  (at least with the same name) but have adapted the rules  so much from the original  that   it appears a different game.  

Edited by Mr Walker

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