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Religion vs atheism, why argue?

195 posts in this topic

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ShadowSot
7 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You see! :tu:  Exactly! :yes: 

I wonder about those with that answer, is if they said that to those in the faith that do something wrong, what would the wrong doers say? Would they agree with them? My thinking, or just a distinct feeling would be, I don't think so. 

 

To be fair, do not kill is a pretty universal Christian belief. But it is so too in most religions and cultures. Though there are also rules for when it's appropriate to kill. 

Thing is, it doesn't work for sociopaths or whatever mental process makes these people enjoy killing. 

Either they dismiss it out of hand, or they adapt it to themselves. 

It can be used to support whats already there, but it won't replace it. 

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cormac mac airt

To be more fair the original Commandment is “Thou shall not murder” yet the early Biblical claim concerning the Hebrews/Israelites of Moses alleged timeframe suggests they were very much hypocrites to their own God’s Commandments. 

cormac

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ShadowSot
5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

To be more fair the original Commandment is “Thou shall not murder” yet the early Biblical claim concerning the Hebrews/Israelites of Moses alleged timeframe suggests they were very much hypocrites to their own God’s Commandments. 

cormac

To be fair, it's only murder if God didn't command you to kill those people. 

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cormac mac airt
16 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

To be fair, it's only murder if God didn't command you to kill those people. 

I’m sure that’s what believers of other pantheons have said too. Sadly.

cormac

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ShadowSot
Just now, cormac mac airt said:

I’m sure that’s what believers of other pantheons have said too. Sadly.

cormac

Little has changed. 

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, ShadowSot said:

Little has changed. 

Unfortunately true.

cormac

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ShadowSot
4 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Unfortunately true.

cormac

The thing for me is, Exodus didn't actually happen. But it's what they wanted to believe had happened. 

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cormac mac airt
3 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

The thing for me is, Exodus didn't actually happen. But it's what they wanted to believe had happened. 

I believe the same thing but the problem as I see it is that hypocrisy excuses EVERYTHING apparently. :cry:

cormac

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Doug1o29
55 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

To be fair, do not kill is a pretty universal Christian belief. But it is so too in most religions and cultures. Though there are also rules for when it's appropriate to kill. 

Thing is, it doesn't work for sociopaths or whatever mental process makes these people enjoy killing. 

Either they dismiss it out of hand, or they adapt it to themselves. 

It can be used to support whats already there, but it won't replace it. 

It seems that a great many people dismiss "Thou Shalt Not Kill," as well as most of the other commandments.

Thou shalt not kill: except in war, except for the death penalty, except for abortion, except for home invasions, except for euthanasia, except ..., except ..., except ...

Too many exceptions destroy the commandment.

Doug

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ShadowSot
15 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

It seems that a great many people dismiss "Thou Shalt Not Kill," as well as most of the other commandments.

Thou shalt not kill: except in war, except for the death penalty, except for abortion, except for home invasions, except for euthanasia, except ..., except ..., except ...

Too many exceptions destroy the commandment.

Doug

It's sort of the trouble with absolutist commands. 

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JMPD1
1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

To be more fair the original Commandment is “Thou shall not murder” yet the early Biblical claim concerning the Hebrews/Israelites of Moses alleged timeframe suggests they were very much hypocrites to their own God’s Commandments. 

cormac

Maybe there was a mistake in the transcription. Maybe they meant: "Thou shalt not murder Hebrews!. Everyone else is fair game though...."

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ShadowSot
1 minute ago, JMPD1 said:

Maybe there was a mistake in the transcription. Maybe they meant: "Thou shalt not murder Hebrews!. Everyone else is fair game though...."

That's pretty much it. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
3 hours ago, ShadowSot said:
10 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You see! :tu:  Exactly! :yes: 

I wonder about those with that answer, is if they said that to those in the faith that do something wrong, what would the wrong doers say? Would they agree with them? My thinking, or just a distinct feeling would be, I don't think so. 

 

To be fair, do not kill is a pretty universal Christian belief. But it is so too in most religions and cultures. Though there are also rules for when it's appropriate to kill. 

Thing is, it doesn't work for sociopaths or whatever mental process makes these people enjoy killing. 

Either they dismiss it out of hand, or they adapt it to themselves. 

It can be used to support whats already there, but it won't replace it. 

Well, that was exactly my point. ( I know, I can't get to the point sometimes......sorry) but I guess, if I was going to see it and say it in another way, when those who are saying the ones doing bad stuff are not true Christians, well then they need to tell that to the none true bad Christians. 

 

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Doug1o29
On 4/17/2018 at 3:51 PM, cormac mac airt said:

To be more fair the original Commandment is “Thou shall not murder” yet the early Biblical claim concerning the Hebrews/Israelites of Moses alleged timeframe suggests they were very much hypocrites to their own God’s Commandments. 

cormac

The "Israelites" were at war with the Amalekites while still almost within site of Mt. Sinai.

Actually, I'm not sure whether one can see Feran Oasis from Gebel Saniya or not.  Feran is the largest oasis in Sinai, so it's the most-probable location for the Amalekites.  The battle almost had to be between there and Gebel Saniya and there is even a place that fits the biblical description - but no archeological evidence of a battle.  No broken swords, no lost equipment - nothing.  The ruin at Feran could have housed maybe 200 people; today there are only a dozen or so houses around a little spring.  It appears the story got a little exaggerated with repeated telling.

Doug

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Carlos Allende

There's a certain Blue Jam sketch where, faced with retrieving your towed-away car from a wheel clamp company, or just dealing with any kind of bureaucracy, you can go to a company and pay for a dullard to represent you as a proxy --the theory being that the bureaucratic official won't know how to deal with their utter incomprehension and just let them off the fine altogether. So it is with debates between atheists and religious people. And I say that as someone who loves the dullard and the wiley fee-dodger and _loathes_ the wheelclampers. Religion is just lateral thinking --and even if it's stupid, it's no less noble than existentialism, or Hegellian dialectics, or nihilism. Meanwhile, the atheist has a whole _world_ of impossible, ignoble things he has to defend. Terrible society. Capitalism. Living in a world of overwhelming odds. Plus, of course, the real reason they're self-confessed atheists, which they're always conspicuously quiet about. Forget your little university-bred arguments about religion being used in historical injustice: let's hear about your bereavements and your bad luck. Too much like hard work, innit. In short, religious people = the Sex Pistols, atheists = Bill Grundy.

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ShadowSot
2 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

Plus, of course, the real reason they're self-confessed atheists, which they're always conspicuously quiet about.

Ah man, I just love it when theists pull this kind reading card. 

Yes, instead of it being a strawman argument created for TV movies and bad Christian cinema, it's all about how much your life sucks in some way.  

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XenoFish
44 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

There's a certain Blue Jam sketch where, faced with retrieving your towed-away car from a wheel clamp company, or just dealing with any kind of bureaucracy, you can go to a company and pay for a dullard to represent you as a proxy --the theory being that the bureaucratic official won't know how to deal with their utter incomprehension and just let them off the fine altogether. So it is with debates between atheists and religious people. And I say that as someone who loves the dullard and the wiley fee-dodger and _loathes_ the wheelclampers. Religion is just lateral thinking --and even if it's stupid, it's no less noble than existentialism, or Hegellian dialectics, or nihilism. Meanwhile, the atheist has a whole _world_ of impossible, ignoble things he has to defend. Terrible society. Capitalism. Living in a world of overwhelming odds. Plus, of course, the real reason they're self-confessed atheists, which they're always conspicuously quiet about. Forget your little university-bred arguments about religion being used in historical injustice: let's hear about your bereavements and your bad luck. Too much like hard work, innit. In short, religious people = the Sex Pistols, atheists = Bill Grundy.

You sound so much like someone else around here. 

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MysticWolf
On 4/17/2018 at 3:02 PM, JMPD1 said:

Maybe there was a mistake in the transcription. Maybe they meant: "Thou shalt not murder Hebrews!. Everyone else is fair game though...."

Or thou shalt not murder God, thou shall not steal from God, thou shall not covet anything that is Gods.....

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MysticWolf

2ab3xa.jpg

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Baldylocks

To answer the question the name of this thread asks. We argue cause we stupid the end *closes book on thumb and squeals*

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