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EU-ISIS

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aztek
Posted (edited)

well it was pretty clear it was the end goal decades ago,  but then what else do you expect when we came in and destroy their countries,  we destroy theirs, in return they are taking over ours, i can't blame them, i blame politicians that make and let it happen.

Edited by aztek

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keithisco

This is not about Israel or the Palestinians, nor is it about a supposed "destruction of their countries" [citations needed]. Why not blame the Ottoman Turks who owned or controlled vast swathes of the ME and N.Africa, why not blame the Moors for their occupation of Spain that lasted centuries? Israel has every right to defend itself from any attempted insurgence, as does any other sovereign nation.

As for the situation in Europe with the illegal and economic migrants / immigrants, then they have absolutely no right to expect special treatment. They should have been forced back on their boats and trucks and made to make visa applications from their own country through the respective European consulates - which is what the legal migrants had to do. 

What has happened, and almost single-handedly by Merkel, is that a tidal wave of illegals with tens of thousands of IS supporters and Fundamentalists hidden within their numbers, have effectively invaded Europe. This is nearing an existentialist situation for European culture and beliefs and unless someone braves the "bleeding hearts" over this attack (for it is no less than that) then the future looks very bleak indeed.   

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Dark_Grey

How strong is the Muslim population in the UK that London's mayor was elected? He does nothing but excuse Islamic terrorism while going after screwdrivers and plastic knives among the general population. He is pro-Sharia law which in and of itself should be a major red flag.

"Terrorism is part of living in a big city"? Seriously - who voted for that guy? He's cutting the legs out from what was once "Great Britain" faster than Trudeau is turning Canada in to Sweden.

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Likely Guy
8 hours ago, keithisco said:

This is not about Israel or the Palestinians, nor is it about a supposed "destruction of their countries" [citations needed]. Why not blame the Ottoman Turks who owned or controlled vast swathes of the ME and N.Africa, why not blame

...the powers that were at the close of the Great War who drew up a bunch of artificial borders in a land they knew little about?

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Likely Guy
6 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

...faster than Trudeau is turning Canada in to Sweden.

Good.

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Setton
9 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

How strong is the Muslim population in the UK that London's mayor was elected? He does nothing but excuse Islamic terrorism while going after screwdrivers and plastic knives among the general population. He is pro-Sharia law which in and of itself should be a major red flag.

"Terrorism is part of living in a big city"? Seriously - who voted for that guy? He's faster than Trudeau is turning Canada in to Sweden.

Believe it or not, non-Muslims can actually vote for a Muslim mayor :o

As for 'cutting the legs out from what was once "Great Britain"', that, along with your out of context quote, just shows how misinformed you are. The mayor of London has no authority over the country as a whole and little direct authority over London. 

Here, this page explains what the mayor of London has responsibility for. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_London

I'm sure he's secretly plotting to prepare the way for sharia in the UK by changing how often bins are collected. And his campaigns to keep local bars open. And campaigning for gay rights. And insisting City Hall flies the pride flag. On top of all that, you can see how he forces his wife and daughters to dress! Clearly a fundamentalist hell bent on imposing sharia law in the UK!

 

 

main-qimg-74388ae2a79404f50828f0bfe75dc325-c.jpeg

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
On 8-4-2018 at 1:19 PM, RabidMongoose said:

The end of the world is Nigh!

No seriously, the Bible and Koran both say an army fighting under a black flag will defeat the armies of the anti-Christ and establish a world wide theocratic state. The anti-Christ is at the head of a large coalition (I cannot remember the exact number of countries but it was something like 50) and will get defeated in Syria.

 

On 9-4-2018 at 9:38 PM, and then said:

Cite the verse about "black flags" in the Bible?  It certainly is in the Qur'an.  The black flags will come from Khorasan (the area of Iran).  The bible tells of a war of conquest against Israel by Persia, Turkey, Gog of Magog (either Turkey or Russia) and several smaller Islamic states.  They get miraculously trounced, BTW.  But no mention of black flags.


You are both confusing Hadith (a weak and unsupported one at that) with the Qur'an, and you are both claiming things about a scripture you know excessively little about, besides passionately using it like an encyclopedia affirming your extremely biased presumptions.. Taking any and every opportunity to label the whole of this religion, as well as all of its adherents, as evil - as an existential threat. A very convenient, black & white state of mind which, ironically, is extremely akin to the extremists ideology you so love to point your fingers at in disgust, feigning moral highground.

Only to subsequently joke about how Palestinians are able to 'breed' like they are even with the tens of thousands of civilian deaths, thousands of children being killed, agressively militarily oppressed for decades, talking about freedomrobbed civilians as though they were animals. Ofcourse, also based on the dehumanization of this (Palesintian) group, and Muslims in general.

Some of the people subscribing to these inherently anti Christian values - demonizing a whole religious congregation that holds Christ in the highest regard (mentioned more in the Qur'an than Muhammad himself) as well as making jokes about a decades long oppressed and decimated native group of people without a military (not unlike the Jews in WWII), even claim to be a follower of Christ without blinking.

Which is - in a strange way - pretty comical, especially given the fact Christians know full well how it is when your whole congregation is incrimated, bashed, and even more so given thesame phenomenon will undoubtedly come back to haunt them. The Christian community will receive thesame negative, black & white attention after the Muslims have been dealth with. Under the guise of 'religion has been responsible for too much suffering, death & destruction around the world', expect a nice rich serving of the bigotry you yourself are dishing out here. Do enjoy.

Peace.

 

PS. contrary to popular belief, ISIS's main victim was and is Muslim, and the main party fighting ISIS boots on ground is.. Muslim.

[An interesting read]

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then

So, the traditions don't speak of Muslims following black flags coming from Khorasan defeating the Jews?  No Mahdi and Issa saving the day from a dastardly Jewish Dajjal?  Next, you'll be saying that to properly understand these writings they MUST be read or listened to in Arabic, as though that language is somehow magical.  It would help your legalistic case if there weren't so MANY verses about subjugating people and outright destroying the Jews.  Not to mention the current crop of peaceful believers in Arab nations that openly speak of slaughtering Jews and Christians.  P80, people can READ what is written.  You're asking them to believe you over their lyin' eyes  :P

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odas
On 12/04/2018 at 9:59 AM, and then said:

Making babies?  Sure, if any excuse is needed at all.  I just get a little weary of hearing the same canards about starvation and deprivation of the noble Palestinian people.  If you want to champion the Palestinian cause, that's your right but some honesty about their role in their own suffering would be refreshing.  It might even lead to a more productive discussion.  There is certainly pettiness and hatred perpetrated by Israelis against Palestinian Arabs.  They have never lived in peace AS EQUALS.  There is a religious duty placed on Muslim Palestinians, practically from their first steps and spoken words, to revile Jews and work for their removal, not just from "Palestine" but from the planet.  They say these things regularly.  The situation in Israel today did not occur in a vacuum and will never be solved by trying to force a solution on either side in the conflict.  As to Israel's character of being a "ruthless, relentless" enemy, I have found that the best enemies are the ones we create by our own behavior.  

This conflict, at its core, is a simple one.  Two peoples with a distinct dislike and distrust for the other, both want and claim an ancient land.  They have fought over it for centuries and eventually, one side will annihilate the other.  When there is no chance for compromise or a meeting of the minds, violence is the last option.  Anyone who believes that one side of this dispute is totally righteous and that every action they take is justified is deluded.  We hear endless reporting on the brutality of the Jews in the IDF toward the Palestinians yet almost nothing when the Palestinians murder unarmed Jews.  It's a bloody, tit for tat and it will only end when one group or the other is utterly defeated.

Your response just shows how little you know about crisis and war situations. As Vlad pointed out correctly, in any war where there is a lower chance of survival the natality spikes. 

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Phaeton80
On 16-4-2018 at 9:46 PM, and then said:

So, the traditions don't speak of Muslims following black flags coming from Khorasan defeating the Jews? 

You seem to have extreme difficulty in understanding text in certain situations. You and Gardener seem to share thesame virus. You havent been in some unmanly physical contact lately, have you? To answer your misconstrued question; thats not what I said. There are numerous 'Muslim traditions', like the Wahhabi variant.. you know, hailing from the nation your nation has the closest political ties with, and sells billions of dollars worth of armsdeals.

No Mahdi and Issa saving the day from a dastardly Jewish Dajjal? 

That is part of some escatology I think, although I am not aware the Dajjal was deemed Jewish. Was this part of our earlier discussion or will yo u just continue concluding things that arent even close to what was said or implied.. Having one of those days AT, my goodness. Or would you like to open the discussion on Christian / Islamic escatology and compare levels of silly.. Is that it?

Next, you'll be saying that to properly understand these writings they MUST be read or listened to in Arabic, as though that language is somehow magical. 

Continuing to add completely unfounded conclusions with no bearing on what I said what so ever. Nice, going for full score I see.

It would help your legalistic case if there weren't so MANY verses about subjugating people and outright destroying the Jews. 

It would help you to react to actual content of a given post, and not invent and/or conclude all sorts of nonsense about things that were never stated or implied. It would also help you to first gain some actual knowledge about the scripture you so love to slander, before you go out claiming all sorts of definitive, extremely negative expletives. Kinda like what you - a Christian - would ask a Bible basher to do, read it in full.. and in context.
(you would know, for example, the verses I think you mean refer to specific situations, not as a decree to murder all pagans and or Jews. Then and only then can you make any sort of rational conclusion. Lament / ridicule that reality all you want, you know the very negative conclusions you derive from a shallow glance at the Qur'an, is completely parallel to an Atheist doing thesame with the Bible.

Not to mention the current crop of peaceful believers in Arab nations that openly speak of slaughtering Jews and Christians. 

Ah, and you suppose all the Muslims are alike in those nations do you? How very convenient. You think anyone cant find thesame extremism in, say, Judeo - Christian nations like Israel, or the USA? My god man, your toxic, unimaginable bias keeps amazing the h*ll out of me. How do you do it, almost magical. :D

P80, people can READ what is written.  You're asking them to believe you over their lyin' eyes  :P

Well sir, you could have fooled me. Apologies, but it seems to me you cant even READ a simple post from a simple poster on a simple site like UM.

 

PS. please quote me next time, Ill actually know youve responded to me, which would enable me to react a bit sooner. Have a nice one.

Peace.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)

*double post*

Edited by Phaeton80

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keithisco

I think what is missing from some of these posts is that the thread is specific to the EU and ISIS. It is about adherents to their particularly twisted version of their religious texts and how this "sickness" is entering liberal democratic nations through a seemingly never ending stream of illegal immigration being used as cover for these fanatics and Islamists to undermine OUR democracies.

It is not about defending, nor quoting, any Religious texts, it is about calling out this subverted "refugee" farce for what it really is: an invasion of NOT like-minded peoples hiding an horrific Islamic cult that is intent of terrorism and subjugation...IMO

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
On 20-4-2018 at 4:23 PM, keithisco said:

I think what is missing from some of these posts is that the thread is specific to the EU and ISIS. It is about adherents to their particularly twisted version of their religious texts and how this "sickness" is entering liberal democratic nations through a seemingly never ending stream of illegal immigration being used as cover for these fanatics and Islamists to undermine OUR democracies.

It is not about defending, nor quoting, any Religious texts, it is about calling out this subverted "refugee" farce for what it really is: an invasion of NOT like-minded peoples hiding an horrific Islamic cult that is intent of terrorism and subjugation...IMO


We, the Western masses, are the reason our 'democracies' are and have been undermined to such a extent it has all but left the bounds of the definition it resides in. We have fomented, by our lathergic ignorance, the terror that is not only seeding destruction in the ME, but offers thesame within Western borders. We have fomented these wars, and we have used these 'Islamists' as proxies to further our geo political aspirations.. Thereby creating these refugee flows into our region.. And lets not delude ourselves into htinking this is something recent, we - the West and her main political players - have been usurping control over Arabic / Islamic regions from the dawn of modern history.

We conveniently do not recognize - or rather even actively obfuscate - our own hand in this ofcourse, only to point our combined implicating fingers at 'the other', the Muslim, from a feigned moral highground.. Thereby fully invoking the extensibly, unadulterated black & white paradigm of the inherent Occident moral and technological / societal superiority over the Orient. 'We are good, they are bad'.

Your enemy is not Islam, not refugees. Your enemy nestles firmly and comfortably in the highest echelons of your 'democracy', has been operating inside the gates for a long long time. The ones facilitating this fall into depravity, lawlessness, international chaos (terror) fomented by this 'horrific cult' (which is not Islam), are not 'the others' - 'the not- like minded people' on the other side of the world adhering to an Abrahamic religion where righteousness and humility are of the highest value - but by you and me, the Western masses being hoodwinked to regard crony capitalist plutocracy as democracy, an intrinsically controlled and lame press as 'free press', greenlighting illegal wars based on a synthesized 'War on Terror', 'Clash of Civilizations' narrative which falsely rationalizes the present crimes being committed by our combined governments.    

Edited by Phaeton80
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keithisco

Slogans, slogans, slogans... your entire post is composed of stitching together as many extreme left-wing slogans as possible.

Your obscene apologistic narrative, and acceptance of all the atrocities committed by IS, ISIS, Daesh (call them what you will) because in your opinion the European democracies actually caused this goes beyond the pale. Your use of hyperbole to support your beliefs shows it for the nonsense that it really is.

All I take away from your self-indulgent rage at western values is that we get what we deserve. Where does this "righteousness and humility" that you claim for IS reside? Is it hidden within their suzerainty by enslavement of the people they subjugate?

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Phaeton80
On 22-4-2018 at 7:09 PM, keithisco said:

Slogans, slogans, slogans... your entire post is composed of stitching together as many extreme left-wing slogans as possible.

Your obscene apologistic narrative, and acceptance of all the atrocities committed by IS, ISIS, Daesh (call them what you will) because in your opinion the European democracies actually caused this goes beyond the pale. Your use of hyperbole to support your beliefs shows it for the nonsense that it really is.

All I take away from your self-indulgent rage at western values is that we get what we deserve. Where does this "righteousness and humility" that you claim for IS reside? Is it hidden within their suzerainty by enslavement of the people they subjugate?


All that was stated is firmly grounded in facts Im afraid.. There is a direct, undeniable causal relation to Western foreign policy in the ME - specifically that of the USA - and the refugee flow into Europe.

Islam has by no means a substantially larger extremist inclination than any given (Abrahamic) religion. Western players, specifically the USA & GB, have fed these Islamists, Wahhabists, to the monster they have become in the form of Saudi Arabia (ideological source of Wahhabism, see the circumstances in which she was created - ibn Saud's relation to UK's war against the Ottoman empire, aptly mirrored in the famous Lawrence of Arabia classic), the mosques and madrasses she seeds throughout the ME as well as the West, and unadulterated terrorist groups like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS. The stark rise / growth of these 'Islamic extremists' coincides with the start of the socalled War on Terror.. The famous 911 event.

Hyperbole? The only hyperbole here is the wording you chose to respond with. I certainly dont claim Islam / Arabic culture is innocent in all this, but to ignore the huge - and I do mean huge - Western hand in the present quagmire, is pure blindsided, self apologistic folly. Contrary to popular and, should I say maybe even convenient belief.. ISIS is not Islam, and Islam is not ISIS. The level of simplicity, sheer black & white view you maintain, ironically, is the exact mirror image of the Muslim extremist you so boastfully lament here. They, just like you seem to imply here against Muslims, see the whole West and all Westerners as vile unbelievers, 'inherently bad / evil'.

Thats more or less the definition of an extremist, simplistic - black & white world views, with the motivation to act on it. My point was never we deserve any of this, but as long as we deny the causes of the present situation, it is impossible to change it, resolve it.

 

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keithisco
On 24/04/2018 at 8:02 PM, Phaeton80 said:


All that was stated is firmly grounded in facts Im afraid.. There is a direct, undeniable causal relation to Western foreign policy in the ME - specifically that of the USA - and the refugee flow into Europe.

Islam has by no means a substantially larger extremist inclination than any given (Abrahamic) religion. Western players, specifically the USA & GB, have fed these Islamists, Wahhabists, to the monster they have become in the form of Saudi Arabia (ideological source of Wahhabism, see the circumstances in which she was created - ibn Saud's relation to UK's war against the Ottoman empire, aptly mirrored in the famous Lawrence of Arabia classic), the mosques and madrasses she seeds throughout the ME as well as the West, and unadulterated terrorist groups like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS. The stark rise / growth of these 'Islamic extremists' coincides with the start of the socalled War on Terror.. The famous 911 event.

Hyperbole? The only hyperbole here is the wording you chose to respond with. I certainly dont claim Islam / Arabic culture is innocent in all this, but to ignore the huge - and I do mean huge - Western hand in the present quagmire, is pure blindsided, self apologistic folly. Contrary to popular and, should I say maybe even convenient belief.. ISIS is not Islam, and Islam is not ISIS. The level of simplicity, sheer black & white view you maintain, ironically, is the exact mirror image of the Muslim extremist you so boastfully lament here. They, just like you seem to imply here against Muslims, see the whole West and all Westerners as vile unbelievers, 'inherently bad / evil'.

Thats more or less the definition of an extremist, simplistic - black & white world views, with the motivation to act on it. My point was never we deserve any of this, but as long as we deny the causes of the present situation, it is impossible to change it, resolve it.

 

No, there are no facts on display, no empirical data to support your position. Simply, yours is an opinion, supposition that is informed by your own personal belief system. In this, of course, you are entitled to express such opinion because you live under laws that guarantee such liberty. Your freedom to express such views are anathema to IS and like minded cults and individuals; their own beliefs would not allow you such latitude and neither are their beliefs based on any supposed wrongdoing by western cultures, but on a twisted narrative in an ancient text. 

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Phaeton80

Sure.. Just continue with your blind dismissal of everything stated without actually addressing any point in it, simply continue to equate ISIS with Islam, and completely ignore any Western culpability in this mess why not. Yay!

Very hard to take seriously dude, Im sorry.

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keithisco

IS equates itself with Islam, it is none of my doing.

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Phaeton80
2 hours ago, keithisco said:

IS equates itself with Islam, it is none of my doing.


That does not make it so, and you know that very, very well. But please, dont let my 'obscene apologistic narrative, and acceptance of all the atrocities committed by IS (!!)' thwart you in any way in comfortably maintaining your oversimplified extremist view of reality.

If anything is to be equated with ISIS, its Saudi Arabia; where the same school of thought is politicized into a full blown (int. recognized) state; actively funding thesame throughout the East and West alike. No issues there though, no Sir.. thats one of our closest political allies.. which ofcourse has absolutely nothing to do with the petrodollar and or financial and geo political interests in general, but simply because they are 'good people', just like US. ..Where the civilized Western powerplayers go to pay homage when a new aristocrat headchopper gets crowned like serfs. The Wahhabi ideological and financial heimat we shower in military hardware so they can bomb the hell out of Yemen - where a humanitarian crisis is fomented completely banned from Western media - while we scream bloody murder about a couple of dozen people who are doused in water pretending to be a new 'WMD' without any evidence what so ever, after setting the country ablaze by way of proxy foreign mercenary armies for almost a decade.

   

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keithisco
14 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


That does not make it so, and you know that very, very well. But please, dont let my 'obscene apologistic narrative, and acceptance of all the atrocities committed by IS (!!)' thwart you in any way in comfortably maintaining your oversimplified extremist view of reality.

If anything is to be equated with ISIS, its Saudi Arabia; where the same school of thought is politicized into a full blown (int. recognized) state; actively funding thesame throughout the East and West alike. No issues there though, no Sir.. thats one of our closest political allies.. which ofcourse has absolutely nothing to do with the petrodollar and or financial and geo political interests in general, but simply because they are 'good people', just like US. ..Where the civilized Western powerplayers go to pay homage when a new aristocrat headchopper gets crowned like serfs. The Wahhabi ideological and financial heimat we shower in military hardware so they can bomb the hell out of Yemen - where a humanitarian crisis is fomented completely banned from Western media - while we scream bloody murder about a couple of dozen people who are doused in water pretending to be a new 'WMD' without any evidence what so ever, after setting the country ablaze by way of proxy foreign mercenary armies for almost a decade.

   

Your opinion again, there is nothing empirical in what you say. Conflating several of your "pet beliefs" in a sustained attack on western democratic nations does you no credit. 

Bolded part: I am sorry to say that this is a simple tautological error. Your propositional logic failed and using tautology as a means of support is specious and therefore falls.

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Phaeton80
32 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Your opinion again, there is nothing empirical in what you say. Conflating several of your "pet beliefs" in a sustained attack on western democratic nations does you no credit. 

Bolded part: I am sorry to say that this is a simple tautological error. Your propositional logic failed and using tautology as a means of support is specious and therefore falls.


There you go not responding with actual content, but simply claiming things without substance, ignoring the brunt that does not 'sparkle' with you again. Then you proceed to talk about 'pet beliefs', only to label my content as a whole as 'a simple tautological error'. You should ask a fee for this, you have a great talent producing a lot of haughty rhetoric based on nothing but hot air. Even having the gall to use the word 'conflating' in your defense, priceless stuff.

Is the Holocaust 'an opinion' as well in your mind? Must be great to go through life dismissing anything that doesnt fit your black & white extremist views as 'opinions'.
 

Quote

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, founder of "Wahhabism," an austere form of Islam, arrives in the central Arabian state of Najd in 1744 preaching a return to "pure" Islam. He seeks protection from the local emir, Muhammad ibn Saud, head of the Al Saud tribal family, and they cut a deal. The Al Saud will endorse al-Wahhab's austere form of Islam and in return, the Al Saud will get political legitimacy and regular tithes from al-Wahhab's followers. The religious-political alliance that al-Wahhab and Saud forge endures to this day in Saudi Arabia.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saud/cron/

 

Quote

The Saudi kingdom’s inseparability from the Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam, first espoused in 1744 and the fundamental creed of Saudi Arabia since its modern founding in 1932, has ensured that fundamentalism shapes domestic and foreign policies. Saudi Arabia is not the only source of resources for jihadism—public and private entities in Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and more recently Turkey have also been linked to collection and transfer of funds supporting terror groups. But the Saudis have been the most persistent source of support for global jihad by spreading Wahhabism abroad to radicalize foreign Muslims and then giving financial support to their violent struggles in countries as far-flung as Afghanistan, Syria, and Libya.
 

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/saudi-connection-wahhabism-and-global-jihad

 

Quote

The country's political leadership (the al-Saud royal family) and religious leadership (adherents of the austere Wahhabi brand of Sunni Islam) have coexisted in a symbiotic relationship for more than two centuries. They have depended on each other for support and legitimacy among the population. Too much pressure from one on the other puts the power and influence of both groups at risk.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/lets-be-realistic-in-partnering-with-saudi-arabia-against-isis

 

Quote

Asked about the Saudi-funded spread of Wahhabism, the austere faith that is dominant in the kingdom and that some have accused of being a source of global terrorism, Mohammed said that investments in mosques and madrassas overseas were rooted in the Cold War, when allies asked Saudi Arabia to use its resources to prevent inroads in Muslim countries by the Soviet Union.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/saudi-prince-denies-kushner-is-in-his-pocket/2018/03/22/701a9c9e-2e22-11e8-8688-e053ba58f1e4_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.50fccc51865f

 

Quote

The activities of Ibn Saʿūd in the 20th century eventually led to the creation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932 and assured Wahhābī religious and political dominance on the Arabian Peninsula. In the late 20th and 21st centuries, the preeminence of the Wahhābī religious establishment has ensured that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia remains markedly more  conservative than other states in the region.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Wahhabi

 

Quote

In order to conceptualize the mentality of ISIS and its motivation, look no further than inside the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to examine how its puritanical Wahhabi doctrine has enabled the ideology of ISIS and terrorist groups alike, and will continue to do so for potential Islamic extremist groups in the future.

Abdul-Wahhab continued his devotion to the teachings of Ibn Taymiyyah throughout his early adult life and began to travel across Nejd projecting his views on Shi’ite communities. Due to his excessive, puritanical beliefs he was forcibly expelled from the city of Basrah by Shi’ite clerics after they revolted against his teachings and attacked him. His rejection eventually led him back to the place of his birth, Al-‘Uyaynah, where his radicalism started to gain excessive adulation. On one prominent occasion, he arranged for the public execution of a woman who confessed to her adultery, had her tied down, then stoned her to death. As this story disseminated throughout the region a local tribal ruler issued a decree that Abdul-Wahhab had to either be stopped or killed. With his life in jeopardy, Abdul-Wahhab traveled to a small market town called Dir’iyyah, which at the time was under the control of one Muhammad Bin Sa’ud. Little did they realize that the events that followed would set a precedent for the future of the region.

Bin Sa’ud, under the religious conviction that this man was “driven to him by Allah,” struck a deal with Abdul-Wahab in 1744 that remains solidified to this day between the House of Saud and the House of Ash-Shaykh (the descendants of Abdul-Wahab).  Abdul-Wahhab and Bin Sa’ud’s army went about waging wars against Muslim and non-Muslim tribes alike across Arabia, spreading Wahhabism as the predominant religion. This bond between Abdul-Wahab and Bin Sa’ud legitimized the use of religion as the instrument for consolidating power and establishing Bin Sa’ud as the ruling family. The alliance forced obedience from the conquered tribes to the House of Saud and their policies, of which Abdul-Wahab strongly encouraged. At that point, Wahhabism became compliantly submissive to the new royal family and continues to be so to this day, evidenced by the 2003 statement from the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, Grand Mufti Abdul-Aziz Bin Abdullah Al Ash Shaykh that, “ the rulers should always be obeyed, even if unjust.”

https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/wahhabism-isis-and-the-saudi-connection/

 

Quote

The importance of religious world views cannot be understated for contemporary events in the Middle East; Religious Ideology remains a powerful mobilizer. The “Salafi” variation of Islam spans a politically quietist majority, few politically active individuals and groups, and of course politically violent and terrorist groups. The country most associated with the Salafi interpretation of Islam is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the homeland of the Wahhabi movement.

https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/50140


Yessir, all 'non emperical pet beliefs', obviously.

"Your propositional logic failed and using tautology as a means of support is specious and therefore falls."

What a wondrous character you turn out to be, unbelievable.. :lol:

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keithisco

I was simply pointing out that what you had written  "The Wahhabi ideological and financial heimat we shower in military hardware" makes absolutely no sense. It does not support your oft stated belief that we,  the Western Democracies, are responsible for for the atrocities committed by IS, or that in some way, the ordinary folk deserve anything that IS may decree as "Just".

Your clear dislike of anything Saudi Arabia may do or represent is an entirely different topic (thankyou for the off-topic history lesson) and should be discussed in a separate ME thread (IMO) where your continued reliance on Opinion (yours and other luminaries) might be received a little better and actually be on-topic

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, keithisco said:

I was simply pointing out that what you had written  "The Wahhabi ideological and financial heimat we shower in military hardware" makes absolutely no sense. It does not support your oft stated belief that we,  the Western Democracies, are responsible for for the atrocities committed by IS, or that in some way, the ordinary folk deserve anything that IS may decree as "Just".

Your clear dislike of anything Saudi Arabia may do or represent is an entirely different topic (thankyou for the off-topic history lesson) and should be discussed in a separate ME thread (IMO) where your continued reliance on Opinion (yours and other luminaries) might be received a little better and actually be on-topic


Well Im sorry, but it makes perfect sense, because its quite simply true. Saudi Arabia is the Wahhabi ideological and financial heimat / homeland, and we - the US and GB in particular - supply them in military hardware. Contrary to your convenient reasoning, or lack thereof, completely ignoring we have been facilitating SA in not only distributing Wahhabism throughout the region, but also in fomenting one of the most stringent humanitarian crisis in Yemen are facts as well (not even touching upon our role in Syria, where we have been financing / supporting / arming foreign mercenaries which may or may not be fighting with or even within the ranks of ISIS to topple yet another foreign head of state).

What is so hard to understand concering Saudi Arabia's (and Qatar, and UAE) playing a central role in disseminating Wahhabism and Salafism - which in turn is thesame school of thought ISIS hails from - throughout the Orient and Occident, thereby feeding the extremism in said area's? With the additional - factual -  observation these nations and SA in particular are one of the closest political and economical allies of thesame Western players screaming bloody murder about ISIS..

And again, you respond to my content with the meaningless and extremely tendentious 'Your clear dislike of anything Saudi Arabia', after you have again insinuated I stated or implied in any shape way or form 'ordinary folk deserve the crimes ISIS commits on them'. Ho ly crap guy.. you serial? :D

To be absolutely clear here, I never said 'we are responsible for ISIS's crimes', I never said 'ordinary people deserve the crimes ISIS commits on them', and I dont 'dislike anything Saudi Arabian', or American for that matter. Thats just you mirroring your own black & white paradigm unto me, trying to misconstrue my position. Please stop that.

Edited by Phaeton80

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)

Heres an interesting vdo..
 


Yes, we know thousands of civilians are getting bombed, but Rand.. what about all these jobs?! Theyre taking our jobs! DEYTERKERJERBs!

Edited by Phaeton80

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