Bigfoot in Native Legends

[Piney]

Among the Lenape there was a forest spirit called the Miisingkhaaliikan. The Guardian of Game. His ceremony was held in the Fall with the burning of a deer on a fire and a dancer running to the different villages and family farms dressed in a bear skin and wearing a mask to represent him. He carried a snapping turtle shell rattle a staff and a bag to receive gifts of tobacco. Children were told to be good because they would be carried off in the bag and that it contained snakes. He was also said to sometimes ride a deer but I think that came about after contact.

Here's one of my chainsaw "doodles" of him.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Piney

[Piney]

and a finished mask

[Herr Falukorv]

Thats beutiful @Piney 
In my younger days I collected masks..
Well maybe not collected but as a single guy in my twenties I had a wall covered with them.
All of them were probably made in taiwan or something similar because they were all very cheap..
And all of them were likely halfdone  

I remember I once tried to do one myself it went into my charcoal grill before I was done with it.
Lets just say that I am better at other things than woodcarving.

When you do masks like that what sort of wood do you use? I like the luster in it.
Are you allways using the same kind or different?
They all have different properties and some are easier to work with than others.

And sorry for asking but Im not that versed in native american ways.
Do the sort of wood have any spiritual meaning when you carve masks?

[Orphalesion]

It's nice to hear that the concept of naughty children being carried off in a sack by some entity transcends cultural boundaries.

We don't get much reliable information about the various Native American cultures and mythologies in Europe. All I have heard of is Coyote, Wendigos and the Thunderbird. And that's probably like somebody saying they have heard of the "European Gods" Odin, Aphrodite and Chernabog...

Also as somebody who doesn't understand anything about woodworking, why is there so much red on the saw and the wood? Is it tree sap?  

[Davros of Skaro]

13 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Also as somebody who doesn't understand anything about woodworking, why is there so much red on the saw and the wood? Is it tree sap?  

That's that's the result of butterfingers.

[Davros of Skaro]

Excellent. Soon you can score a whole lot of tobacco.

I wish I took a picture of a mask I saw at the Smithsonian in NYC. I don't remember what tribe (NW, NE?)? I did not know if it was older, or newer? The mask looked like folk memory of a Gorilla. It was called "The Wild Man of the Woods".

I did a search online, and I can't find anything like it.

[acute]

Bigfoot in the title, but no mention of Bigfoot in the thread!

I want my money back.

[Commander CMG]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

Among the Lenape there was a forest spirit called the Miisingkhaaliikan. The Guardian of Game. His ceremony was held in the Fall with the burning of a deer on a fire and a dancer running to the different villages and family farms dressed in a bear skin and wearing a mask to represent him. He carried a snapping turtle shell rattle a staff and a bag to receive gifts of tobacco. Children were told to be good because they would be carried off in the bag and that it contained snakes. He was also said to sometimes ride a deer but I think that came about after contact.

Here's one of my chainsaw "doodles" of him.

 

[Commander CMG]

I liked the forest spirit masks, one on your wall in particular was my favourite, loved the Bridgeton glass knives you made for Jesse and the tribal black cherry clubs...

[Piney]

1 hour ago, davros of skaro said:

That's that's the result of butterfingers.

Red spray paint and "Zombie Response Team" humor.

[Minimalists]

Thats some good carving there Piney I like it.

[Piney]

5 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

Thats some good carving there Piney I like it.

Some people asked about a Native Legend thread and @DieChecker @Sakari and I have discussed it before. So if anyone has found links to others, it would be cool

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Herr Falukorv said:

@Piney
When you do masks like that what sort of wood do you use? I like the luster in it.
Are you allways using the same kind or different?
They all have different properties and some are easier to work with than others.

And sorry for asking but Im not that versed in native american ways.
Do the sort of wood have any spiritual meaning when you carve masks?

Eastern Red Cedar, (which is also our smudge) and split the carving between the whitewood and heartwood. Traditionally they are painted half red and half black

[Minimalists]

10 minutes ago, Piney said:

Some people asked about a Native Legend thread and @DieChecker @Sakari and I have discussed it before. So if anyone has found links to others, it would be cool

A quick Google search turns up this extensive list:

 http://www.native-languages.org/legends.htm

Heres one on Native Art in Canada:

http://www.native-art-in-canada.com/nativelegends.html

Heres one on Native American Legends, Myth And Lore:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Indian/stories.html

Cannot really chime in or add much to this thread as I am not familiar with this topic but will watch it and read it.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Alien Origins

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

A quick Google search turns up this extensive list:

 http://www.native-languages.org/legends.htm

Heres one on Native Art in Canada:

http://www.native-art-in-canada.com/nativelegends.html

Heres one on Native American Legends, Myth And Lore:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Indian/stories.html

Cannot really chime in or add much to this thread as I am not familiar with this topic but will watch it and read it.

The first link is a good. Orrin is accurate and tries hard to post what's correct. He even mentions the anti-Bigfoot aspect about the Miisingk but he talks to the Fallleafs.  They are gonna be PEEVED at this thread.

[Night Walker]

Name: Mesingw
Tribal affiliation: Lenape, Munsee, Shawnee (some communities)
Alternate spellings: Misingw, Msingw, Mësingw, Msiingw, Mising, Mesing, Mee Sing, Misink, Mesingwe, Msingwe, Misingwa, Masing, Mesingk, Messingq, Misi'ngwe, Mesingwe, Mizi'nk, Misink, Misignwa
Pronunciation: similar to muh-seeng but with a rounded final consonant.
Also known as: Mask Spirit, Masked Being, Spirit Face, Living Solid Face, Master of Game. Mesingholikan (also spelled Mësingholikan, Misinkhalikan, Misinghalikun, Misinkhâlikàn, Misinghali'kun, Mizinkhali'kun, Wsinkhoalican, and other ways) was the name of a Lenape ritual dancer who channeled the role of Mesingw for hunting and curing ceremonies.
Type: Mask, dream spirit, hunting god

Mesingw is the Lenape Mask Spirit, a powerful, sacred medicine spirit who maintains the balance of nature, appears to Lenape men in dreams, and is the focus of certain traditional Lenape religious rituals. Some people (especially non-Natives) have begun associating Mesingw with Bigfoot recently, but this is not a traditional view-- many Native American tribes do indeed have sasquatch/hairy man legends but the Lenape Mask Spirit is not one of them. Mising is usually depicted as a supernatural face with one half colored red and the other half colored black. Mising is the protector of all animals of the forest, but is most strongly associated with deer. Some Lenape people describe Mising as taking humanoid form and riding through the woods on the back of a deer, helping respectful hunters and punishing those who despoil the forest.

http://www.native-languages.org/mesingw.htm

 

https://archive.org/details/religionceremoni00harriala

 

THE LENÂPÉ AND THEIR LEGENDS; WITH THE COMPLETE TEXT AND SYMBOLS OF THE WALAM OLUM (1885) -- http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46422/46422-h/46422-h.htm

Old Religion among the Delawares: The Gamwing (Big House Rite) -- http://www.academicroom.com/article/old-religion-among-delawares-gamwing-big-house-rite

___

Masked and body covered with long dark hair, Mesingw was often associated with the Christian Devil by early settlers. Mesingw has also been associated with the New Jersey Devil of the Pine Barrens.

Legend of the Jersey Devil still haunts Pine Barrens
Phantom of the Pines: More Tales of the Jersey Devil
The Story of the Jersey Devil! As Told by Russell Juelg

Piney - do you know if that association is a recent thing (following the advent of cryptozoology post-1959) or whether there are any earlier accounts which tried to link the Jersey Devil with your Guardian of Game?

[Swede]

19 hours ago, Piney said:

Among the Lenape there was a forest spirit called the Miisingkhaaliikan. The Guardian of Game. His ceremony was held in the Fall with the burning of a deer on a fire and a dancer running to the different villages and family farms dressed in a bear skin and wearing a mask to represent him. He carried a snapping turtle shell rattle a staff and a bag to receive gifts of tobacco. Children were told to be good because they would be carried off in the bag and that it contained snakes. He was also said to sometimes ride a deer but I think that came about after contact.

Piney,

Good topic. In regards to erroneous Native "Bigfoot" information not uncommonly bandied about, you may wish to present a comparative of the commonly referenced "material" by Kathy Strain. If memory serves, she has interpreted the term Manitou/Manidou (Anishinabe-Algonquian)) to represent a reference to "Bigfoot". Aargh. A point-by-point dissection of Strain's oft-cited list may prove to be of value to the readers.

.

[Piney]

5 minutes ago, Swede said:

Piney,

Good topic. In regards to erroneous Native "Bigfoot" information not uncommonly bandied about, you may wish to present a comparative of the commonly referenced "material" by Kathy Strain. If memory serves, she has interpreted the term Manitou/Manidou (Anishinabe-Algonquian)) to represent a reference to "Bigfoot". Aargh. A point-by-point dissection of Strain's oft-cited list may prove to be of value to the readers.

.

I've explained that Maaniituu is the "Spiritual Essence" of Kiitaanituuwit "Creation" many times on this board. But I'll explain it again

Maaniituu is more like "The Force" in Star Wars than a actual spirit. It's the Essence of Creation in all things.

Hows that?  

[Night Walker]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Maaniituu is more like "The Force" in Star Wars than a actual spirit. It's the Essence of Creation in all things.

[Sakari]

15 hours ago, Piney said:

Some people asked about a Native Legend thread and @DieChecker @Sakari and I have discussed it before. So if anyone has found links to others, it would be cool

I tried to find our discussions. No luck. So, if anyone does search, please, for the love of a higher being, do not use Bigfoot, or Crypto sites as resources.

[Piney]

23 minutes ago, Sakari said:

I tried to find our discussions. No luck. So, if anyone does search, please, for the love of a higher being, do not use Bigfoot, or Crypto sites as resources.

That's why I started a new one.

Like Moneymaker? 

[Piney]

4 hours ago, Night Walker said:

Name: Mesingw
Tribal affiliation: Lenape, Munsee, Shawnee (some communities)
Alternate spellings: Misingw, Msingw, Mësingw, Msiingw, Mising, Mesing, Mee Sing, Misink, Mesingwe, Msingwe, Misingwa, Masing, Mesingk, Messingq, Misi'ngwe, Mesingwe, Mizi'nk, Misink, Misignwa
Pronunciation: similar to muh-seeng but with a rounded final consonant.
Also known as: Mask Spirit, Masked Being, Spirit Face, Living Solid Face, Master of Game. Mesingholikan (also spelled Mësingholikan, Misinkhalikan, Misinghalikun, Misinkhâlikàn, Misinghali'kun, Mizinkhali'kun, Wsinkhoalican, and other ways) was the name of a Lenape ritual dancer who channeled the role of Mesingw for hunting and curing ceremonies.
Type: Mask, dream spirit, hunting god

Mesingw is the Lenape Mask Spirit, a powerful, sacred medicine spirit who maintains the balance of nature, appears to Lenape men in dreams, and is the focus of certain traditional Lenape religious rituals. Some people (especially non-Natives) have begun associating Mesingw with Bigfoot recently, but this is not a traditional view-- many Native American tribes do indeed have sasquatch/hairy man legends but the Lenape Mask Spirit is not one of them. Mising is usually depicted as a supernatural face with one half colored red and the other half colored black. Mising is the protector of all animals of the forest, but is most strongly associated with deer. Some Lenape people describe Mising as taking humanoid form and riding through the woods on the back of a deer, helping respectful hunters and punishing those who despoil the forest.

http://www.native-languages.org/mesingw.htm

 

https://archive.org/details/religionceremoni00harriala

 

THE LENÂPÉ AND THEIR LEGENDS; WITH THE COMPLETE TEXT AND SYMBOLS OF THE WALAM OLUM (1885) -- http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46422/46422-h/46422-h.htm

Old Religion among the Delawares: The Gamwing (Big House Rite) -- http://www.academicroom.com/article/old-religion-among-delawares-gamwing-big-house-rite

___

Masked and body covered with long dark hair, Mesingw was often associated with the Christian Devil by early settlers. Mesingw has also been associated with the New Jersey Devil of the Pine Barrens.

Legend of the Jersey Devil still haunts Pine Barrens
Phantom of the Pines: More Tales of the Jersey Devil
The Story of the Jersey Devil! As Told by Russell Juelg

Piney - do you know if that association is a recent thing (following the advent of cryptozoology post-1959) or whether there are any earlier accounts which tried to link the Jersey Devil with your Guardian of Game?

The Jersey Devil started out as a parody written by Ben Franklin with a nut shot to Daniel Leeds. It's 18th Century "Creepy Pasta".

[Night Walker]

18 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Jersey Devil started out as a parody written by Ben Franklin with a nut shot to Daniel Leeds. It's 18th Century "Creepy Pasta".

Yeah but do you know if Franklin (or anyone else) linked the Jersey Devil to the Lenape "devil" prior to cryptozoologists? Linking a contemporary legend to indigenous tradition gives superficial credibility to it - making it more likely to spread as a meme...

[docyabut2]

Quote

Why don't you guys ever get over a big foot, that big foot bones are never found ever things are hoaxes.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by docyabut2

[Piney]

7 hours ago, Night Walker said:

Yeah but do you know if Franklin (or anyone else) linked the Jersey Devil to the Lenape "devil" prior to cryptozoologists? Linking a contemporary legend to indigenous tradition gives superficial credibility to it - making it more likely to spread as a meme...

McCloy and Miller the authors of the Jersey Devil books did that. 

The funny part about that book was 4 of the sightings involved people I knew and I could debunk them with ease.